50 Year Parts Availability - gone?

[Musta10000]

The current BaT thread on the Z8 for sales this week has some parts comments and I thought I will just check for discounted price for a silver steering wheel as the part number was handy from the post there. Surprise, surprise.... Multiple sites (getbmwparts.com, turner, and ECS) all state part no longer available. Some other colors do appear as still available.

[Musta10000]

In addition... My windshield wiper arms have pitted and I ordered new ones in March and the right side one came quickly. The left one is still on order six months later with no ETA in the BMW ordering system. According to parts manager it does not stay "backordered" or state that is unavailable. Just that it is on order. I had thought initially that I should just have them painted/powder coated, but then decided to just replace them I might be going to back to Plan A, if I can't get a new one by spring... Not sure what has caused this (actually looks worse on the photo), but maybe it's just the age and that the car has been driven a lot. Crossed the 110,000 mile mark this summer.

[2112]

Same problem with the Ford GT, But they never promised a 50 year supply. Subsequently, parts pricing has gone up 300% on some parts in the last few years. Headlight assemblies were $1300, then $1800, now driver's sides are no longer available and a secondary seller has a set on eBay for $9,800. 🙁

Could become painful getting the parts we need in the future.

[CobraR1339]

Same problem with the Ford GT, But they never promised a 50 year supply. Subsequently, parts pricing has gone up 300% on some parts in the last few years. Headlight assemblies were $1300, then $1800, now driver's sides are no longer available and a secondary seller has a set on eBay for $9,800. 🙁

Could become painful getting the parts we need in the future.

A friend sold both his GTs for that exact reason. Lack of support and price gouging. You now need a current reg and vin to buy anything unique. I have a 2005 but low miles and no real worries at the moment. When we lose support and the aftermarket is slow to step in it's not good. Even the deck struts are gone and no one makes them. We are having some made in the UK at 800.00 a set cost. The headlights are a real concern, will be difficult to mfg, the oEM source is out of biz. Body stuff should be ok and easy enough to repop. Same with most interior stuff. Drive train is bullet proof so no running issues. The problem is the batch you need to run to make it feasable. If you commit to say 500 headlights at 2.5k each, that a big nut with only 5k cars. I support that community with what we can do in house. There are folks that can rebuild a lot of stuff, hard to find and not cheap. Folks have mentioned shadowman on this site. He has the connections on the GT as well.

[boomster]

Same problem with the Ford GT, But they never promised a 50 year supply. Subsequently, parts pricing has gone up 300% on some parts in the last few years. Headlight assemblies were $1300, then $1800, now driver's sides are no longer available and a secondary seller has a set on eBay for $9,800. 

Could become painful getting the parts we need in the future.

This makes me feel a little better about selling my GT two years ago, naturally just before the prices on them jumped. Mine had fogged headlights, just like my Z8 when I first bought it. Too bad they couldn't have stayed with real glass, ala E-type MkI or 275 GTB.

[beamon]

I still want an 05-06 Ford GT but all this talk about parts supply is making me think twice!

[DakotaGT]

A friend sold both his GTs for that exact reason. Lack of support and price gouging. You now need a current reg and vin to buy anything unique. I have a 2005 but low miles and no real worries at the moment. When we lose support and the aftermarket is slow to step in it's not good. Even the deck struts are gone and no one makes them. We are having some made in the UK at 800.00 a set cost. The headlights are a real concern, will be difficult to mfg, the oEM source is out of biz. Body stuff should be ok and easy enough to repop. Same with most interior stuff. Drive train is bullet proof so no running issues. The problem is the batch you need to run to make it feasable. If you commit to say 500 headlights at 2.5k each, that a big nut with only 5k cars. I support that community with what we can do in house. There are folks that can rebuild a lot of stuff, hard to find and not cheap. Folks have mentioned shadowman on this site. He has the connections on the GT as well.

Deck struts- are you referring to the struts for the rear clamshell and front hatch? If so, they are available here: https://www.cooltechllc.com/7-ford-gt-parts-accessories

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I still want an 05-06 Ford GT but all this talk about parts supply is making me think twice!

Nah, get one. Better yet, get TWO if you can.

[macfly]

I would not be surprised to see the WEF inspired virtue signaling nightmare in Germany lead to corporations like BMW dropping their support for classic 'fossil fuel' cars entirely. The systems of support and supply we thought so solid and reliable just a few years ago all seem to be crumbling now, and the current situation in Germany is going to make things far, far worse going forward.

[lanny]

Is there anything in writing from BMW that they will make parts for the Z8 for 50 years?

[GaZ8fan]

Andrew is right, not going to get better. It’s the bespoke parts like the aluminum shift knob (nla) that are more concerning. I wasn’t able to get the ballast for the right front turn signal but that is a part that you can likely find a replacement for or fix. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to find that it is the exact same part on another car. For example, McLaren dealers were charging $300 per coil for my old 12C. At 8 cylinders that is $2400. Turns out it is the same exact coil used on some Nissans which you can buy for $20 / coil.

[beamon]

Deck struts- are you referring to the struts for the rear clamshell and front hatch? If so, they are available here: https://www.cooltechllc.com/7-ford-gt-parts-accessories

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Nah, get one. Better yet, get TWO if you can.

Hah...I'm no derm doc...only a rad onc

[DakotaGT]

Hah...I'm no derm doc...only a rad onc

Lol. Are you a member of MD Motörhead’s on facebook?

[beamon]

No, but I'll check it out.

[DakotaGT]

No, but I'll check it out.

You won’t find it. It’s a hidden private group, invitation-only. if you’d like an invitation to join, send me a pm.

[Musta10000]

Is there anything in writing from BMW that they will make parts for the Z8 for 50 years?

Wanted to bump this question up as it came up before (not sure if it was here or not) and far as I can recall, no one was able to come up with that on formal BMW document anywhere. I tried to go through my “book” to see if it was there and could not find - not that I read every word.

Would love to see something formal from BMW!

[GaZ8fan]

I would be shocked if there was any legally binding document obligating BMW to supply parts. The “guarantee” to supply parts is now the province of BMW Classic. Presumably it will take a PR campaign by owners to address unavailable parts. For example, they began supplying the unique Z8 radios after a 4 year hiatus. Same thing with the taillights.

[boomster]

Thankfully, most of the mechanicals of the Z8 are common to other models and should be available going forward. Obviously not the case for the bespoke lighting and trim pieces.

[macfly]

Our fellow owner Larry G sent me this link, if you read to the last paragraph it says that BMW Classic will honor the 50 years parts, but will BMW keep supporting their Classic division is maybe a bigger question.

https://www.bmwgroup-classic.com/en/...rt/BMW-Z8.html

[GaZ8fan]

Again, what does that “guarantee” actually mean? It is not very helpful if for example I was looking for a new shift knob, call BMW Classic, and they tell me we will look into it and get back to me in a couple of years.

[redz8]

In my 20+ years of z8 ownership and involvement, I've never seen a contractual commitment from BMW to supply parts for 50 years. I think BMW may have used this for PR early on and that gave the community a sense of comfort, at least up until now.

[2112]

I would not be surprised to see the WEF inspired virtue signaling nightmare in Germany lead to corporations like BMW dropping their support for classic 'fossil fuel' cars entirely. The systems of support and supply we thought so solid and reliable just a few years ago all seem to be crumbling now, and the current situation in Germany is going to make things far, far worse going forward.

I too think this is a likely scenario.

[Z803]

Good Morning everybody,
My name is Karsten and I am the technical director of the BMW Z8 Club. We will have a meeting with BMW Classic on Wednesday, 7th of December, to discuss this topic. I will get back to you, after the meeting.
Also, there is a german document from BMW to point out the 50 years garantie to deliver parts etc. I will post this document later the day.
If you have any more question, please get back to the club of to me.

[macfly]

Thanks so much Karsten, and very happy to see you posting here - the more united we are the more able we'll be to keep these cars going for as long as possible.

[mjunco1054]

Karsten,Agree with Andrew regarding your comment about the meeting with BMW CLassic thanks for keeping us informed. I agree that the commitment to the 50 years was all over the press when the car first came out, and I had also seen the same article that Andrew referenced from BMW Classic. I own two Porsches 911 in addition to my 2 Z8s, a 2002 and X5 and hope that BMW learns from the Porsche Classic Group, and the phenomenal work they do with the 356 and 911s. It definitely helps maintain the loyalty and respect of their customers.

[lanny]

Karsten,

Any update on your meeting with BMW Classic about the 50 year parts guarantee?

Thanks

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Karsten,

Any update on your meeting with BMW Classic about the 50 year parts guarantee?

Thanks

[Z803]

Dear all, just to give a little update.
On Wednesday, 7th of December, the president of the Z8 Club, the secretary and me went to BMW Classic to meet Helmut Käs, head of BMW Classic. He brought Mrs. Fischer with him, she is girl in charge for all our parts. It was an 1,5 hour talk about BMW Classic at all and our Z8 in detail. We pointed out the 50 years parts guarantee we have a writen document in the Z8 club. Helmut Käs knew the document but pointed out, that it might be difficult to fulfill the guarantee at all. But he underlined that they are willing to help us with all parts which are necessary to run the car on the road. Though there might be a problem with red carpets but all important parts will be supplied by BMW in the future. The only problem will be time. As at the moment there are no left front lights in stock for ECE cars, they will be back in Q3 in 2023.
We as the Z8 Club will stay in a very close contact with BMW Classic to see, which parts are getting critical to push them to remake these parts. Unfortunately a lot of the first suplyers are allready not existing any more which does not make the thing any easier.
If there will be parts which are not important for the safety of the car, we as the Z8 Club will try to find people to help us with the supply but we need the help from all people of the community to do this job.
If there are any more questions, please come back to us.

[macfly]

Thanks so much for the update Karsten, I hope as time goes on a cottage industry of smaller parts suppliers will step in to help keep these, and many other modern classics on the road.

[dwz8]

I can help out with the story around the guarantee from my time as the Technical Director of the BMW Z8 Club.

There are two references to the 50 year guarantee to begin with:
- one in a story of the thick BMW Z8 book that came with the car (at least in the German version). That article had not been written by a BMW employee, however, the book was published by BMW, which created some liability.
- in the big Z8 prospect that is hold together by screws

This was my starting point during the negotiations with BMW around the production of new tail lights (which of course has happened a couple of years ago).
The final point was a letter from the speaker of the BMW board (see attachment), where is stated:

Concerning other spare parts, BMW Group stands by their promise: For all our vehicles we provide a spare parts guarantee for 50 years.

(To avoid overcomplicating this, let's assume that "all vehicles" refers to the Z8 only).

The question now is, how much this promise is worth. It certainly creates some liability for BMW. However, this promise should not be confused with the typical spare parts supply for a new car. Is a part out of stock it will have to be reproduced, which will take time. For a wing this may mean that they will have to manually manufacture it from a piece of sheet metal. Additionally, no prices have been fixed for parts. Already now you have to pay with pure gold if you're buying a Z8 part.

Furtheron, we have to understand that the Z8 is built from a mixture of Z8 specific parts and parts coming from other BMW models. For the parts stemming from the E39 M5 or the E38, no special measures have been taken to build up a 50 year long supply chain. Something like the air condition compressor will be tough to produce once stock has been depleted.
As Karsten has pointed out already, the manufacturers of Z8 specific parts can't be count upon either:
10 years after end of production, most forms and tools for the Z8 have been destroyed. Either the contract for the supplier ended after 10 years (the usual timeframe), or the tools were worn out. In these cases only individual production by hand or 3D printing could be used.

Hence, BMW made a promise, and the Club will make sure that BMW does live up to it. As we have done in the past, the Club is ready to bubble problems up to the Board of BMW, if necessary. But don't expect things to happen overnight.

It might be a good idea to have a couple of important parts at hand, like headlights, turn lights, maybe even body parts.

Hope this sheds some light on the situation, together with the up to date info that Karsten has provided.

[macfly]

Thank you so much for that, and great to see here too!

[dwz8]

Thank you so much for that, and great to see here too!

Hi Andrew,
good to see that you're still involved. Do you own a Z8 right now?

I hope it is appropriate to add a couple of lines about the German BMW Z8 Club e.V.

Everybody is looking for the benefits when joining a club, and so do I. When it comes to the BMW Z8 Club, I have learned to accept a special point of view.
The Z8 is a unique car. Completely set apart from BMW's model range, and not the usual "best what you can get this year" car, but an hommage to the 507. You know all this, of course. But unique means there was no car before or after the Z8 that was linked to it as you can see with the yearly 911.
The consequence is clear: keeping the car up and running will become a more and more difficult task over the years, no matter what BMW has promised. Right now it even looks like BMW won't be manufacturing fuel-burning cars long before the Z8 50 year guarantee will end.

And here is where the value of the BMW Z8 Club is:
It is not about the beautiful drives (we saw quite a few American folks there in the past) or the magazine. It is all about staying in constant touch with BMW to ensure proper spare parts supply. The past has shown that persistence pays off, like the introduction of the Performance Package, or the almost 10 year long fight for the tail lights.
I've been there for a long number of years, and I'm not completely out of it, even if I am no longer a Technical Director (it was my wish to take a break). Karsten Weise is now in that place doing a great job. Every Z8 owner has benefited from the Club's work in the past, and this will continue hopefully for a long time.

It may sound strange, but I have accepted my member's fee as a contribution to the work that the BMW Z8 Club is doing with BMW to keep the Z8 alive. I welcome all social activities as an add-on. The membership fee is an amount that I easily spend on a bottle of wine in a restaurant, but that's just my point of view.

I assume that everybody who owns a Z8 will want to see his car running for a long time. It's such fun, and after 20.5 years of ownership and more than 100,000 miles I know what I'm talking about.
The stronger we are in front of BMW the better.

(Please don't take this as a sales pitch. I'm just trying to express what makes sense to me).

[macfly]

Hi Dieter, I no longer have a Z8, my interests have moved back to pure landscape photography that I have always loved, and am building a live aboard rig to go up to Alaska and hopefully down to South America too. Should you care to, you can follow the build and the subsequent adventure on my instagram feed @sumo2_is_my_name

I keep the board running here as the Z8 will always be the sportscar of my life, I absolutely loved every moment of my almost 20 years of ownership, the friends I made, and the adventures we had, including the four wonderful trips to Germany I made with the Z8 Club, so I will endeavor to make sure those memories are always honored and preserved here on the board.

I second Dieter's call to join the Z8 Club, it is the only resource owners have to keep the cars going, standing together is stronger and although there is a cost involved, I think for current owners it is an excellent investment.

Also the magazine is a nice bonus, mine just arrived, and it really is looking good, so bravo to the Club for that too. Here's a few shots and the direct link to help encourage everyone to join up -

https://www.bmwz8club.com/en/

[jmosk]

I recall speaking with Bill Stuart (who unfortunately is no longer with us), and thought he told me only of a 25 year parts guarantee which we are currently nearing.