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Thread: Price differences

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    Price differences

    Hello everyone,

    For many years now, I've been watching the ads of z8 for sale on the Internet every day, and I've been surprised lately that the prices of comparable vehicles vary so much. Here are a few examples:

    1. Two silver/crema for sale in the US (both US cars): the price difference is $35 000 while the more expensive of both has 8 000 miles more;
    2. Two silver/red for sale in Europe (both European cars and both 2-owner cars): the price difference is €94 600 while the more expensive of both has 3 000 km more;
    3. Two black/black for sale in Europe (both European cars and both 2-owner cars): the price difference is €65 888 and the more expensive of both has 13 000 km less;
    4. Two stratus/black (both European cars and both 2-owner cars): the price difference is €55 000 while the more expensive of both has 25 000 km more.

    Of course, it's always difficult to compare two cars, but I've tried to find vehicles that are as comparable as possible. So what justifies such discrepancies? I'd be interested to have your opinion.

    All the ads are here:
    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...6945/overview/
    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...4572/overview/
    https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...mageUnrepaired
    https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...mageUnrepaired
    https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...mageUnrepaired
    https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...mageUnrepaired
    https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...mageUnrepaired
    https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...mageUnrepaired

    Ben
                   

  2. #2
    I guess the real question is what or past cars have sold for as opposed to what the asking prices are. Some of these cars sit unsold many months if not years. Very different from your Porsches or even Ferraris where prices seem much more comparable. Andrew might be the best expert to weigh in on this.
    Skip Hammerman

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    As mentioned above, I think some owners and dealers value the car higher than they are actually selling for and you will see big differentials between the asking price and selling price. I think outside of the obvious such as color and maintenance history, there are other important factors within the same mileage and color cars. For example, I looked casually for a few years before finally purchasing a Z8 last year. If a car did not include the performance package, coffee table book, and hardtop, I lost interest very quickly. Also, number of prior owners may be an issue for some. I was ready to pay a premium for the "right" car and I think some dealers know that they may have such a car and price it higher.
    2002 Z8, Titanium Silver, Dinan ECU/Suspension, Brembo BBK, Quaife 3.64 LSD, Short Shift, HRE 541R, Eisenmann Exhaust
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  4. #4
    Team Z8 Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    Selling is question of motivation. Some cars you may want to unload....others you'd be happy having in inventory or your garage. Someone wants my Z8 the price is the price and I don't care if they tell me they can get another Z8 from Jim Smith for less. On the other hand, if I had a 488 right now I'd be highly motivated to sell as a better preforming better looking F8 comes out. I don't see BMW making a car like the Z8 EVER AGAIN and that may factor in to the desire to unload or not unload a car like the Z8. Personally, if a person does not need the money and is healthy enough to drive/enjoy their Z8 I don't see why they'd sell it. The grass is not greener on the other side

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    Quote Originally Posted by Musta10000 View Post
    I guess the real question is what or past cars have sold for as opposed to what the asking prices are. Some of these cars sit unsold many months if not years. Very different from your Porsches or even Ferraris where prices seem much more comparable. Andrew might be the best expert to weigh in on this.
    I agree that many of those z8's have been listed for sale for many months or even many years. It's a sad thing because those cars should be driven by enthusiasts and not displayed in dealerships. They were made to be driven after all. The website https://www.theparking-cars.com/used...l%3Ftri%3Ddate, already mentioned by someone on the forum, is interesting because it shows the date of publication of the ads as well as the price reductions. I made a quick calculation and those reductions vary between 1 500 euros and 62 500 euros. I found 55 listings that were discounted (Alpina's not included) and the average price reduction is approximately 20 000 euros.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vzben View Post
    I agree that many of those z8's have been listed for sale for many months or even many years. It's a sad thing because those cars should be driven by enthusiasts and not displayed in dealerships. They were made to be driven after all. The website https://www.theparking-cars.com/used...l%3Ftri%3Ddate, already mentioned by someone on the forum, is interesting because it shows the date of publication of the ads as well as the price reductions. I made a quick calculation and those reductions vary between 1 500 euros and 62 500 euros. I found 55 listings that were discounted (Alpina's not included) and the average price reduction is approximately 20 000 euros.
    Well, perhaps for starters, I went to that site and after selecting BMW as the make did not see the Z8 listed. A really wanky way of listing the car models as unlike any other site I've ever seen they don't list them alphabetically

    Site doesn't even offer brands like Ferrari. Seems all that site is is one that has no listings itself but searches other databases, so its information can not be vouched for IMO. I noted cars from the UK it listed in dollars and I know the cars are actually in pounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8DinanS2 View Post
    Well, perhaps for starters, I went to that site and after selecting BMW as the make did not see the Z8 listed. A really wanky way of listing the car models as unlike any other site I've ever seen they don't list them alphabetically

    Site doesn't even offer brands like Ferrari. Seems all that site is is one that has no listings itself but searches other databases, so its information can not be vouched for IMO. I noted cars from the UK it listed in dollars and I know the cars are actually in pounds.
    This site only lists ads indeed. It then links back to the ads, so it's reliable. I only use the search bar on this website and if you enter Ferrari FF for instance, you'll find many ads. For the currency, it automatically converts the price to the selected currency, which makes the comparison easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vzben View Post
    This site only lists ads indeed. It then links back to the ads, so it's reliable. I only use the search bar on this website and if you enter Ferrari FF for instance, you'll find many ads. For the currency, it automatically converts the price to the selected currency, which makes the comparison easier.
    Thanks for the tip. Yes, if you skip the search options and type in vehicle works much better results-wise.

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    Thanks for the thread, it is very interesting to see the different prices but you have to be very careful with that.
    For example the cheaper black car had an accident before, it might be very difficult to get that sold.
    From my point of you, history and all accessories is very important for the price, at least here in Germany. If you want to have a "complete" car, you have to pay for it.
    If you pay less you might be disapointed or you are just looking for a driver and do not care about the details.
    Best regards from Dortmund

    Karsten
    Alpina Z8 #550/555
    AH61420

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z803 View Post
    Thanks for the thread, it is very interesting to see the different prices but you have to be very careful with that.
    For example the cheaper black car had an accident before, it might be very difficult to get that sold.
    From my point of you, history and all accessories is very important for the price, at least here in Germany. If you want to have a "complete" car, you have to pay for it.
    If you pay less you might be disapointed or you are just looking for a driver and do not care about the details.
    Thanks for your opinion, Karsten! You are right, I didn't pick the right car for the black/black comparison. Maybe this EU car with 2 owners would have been better: https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...mageUnrepaired The price difference would then be 45 000 euros with 7 400 km less.
     

  11. #11
    My perception has been that European/German buyers are not as concerned about mi/km as American buyers. Is that (still) the case?
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    Here's another example, of two red/red this time: the price difference is €139 000 and the more expensive of both has 7 850 km less. I'm sure you could find another Z8 for €139 000!

    Links:
    https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/b...dtsrc=listPage
    https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...mageUnrepaired
       

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    And another example: two red/black: the price difference is €149 859 while the more expensive of both has 1 600 km more. I really wonder on what basis dealers set their prices.

    Links:
    https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...AGE_UNREPAIRED
    https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...AGE_UNREPAIRED
       

  14. #14
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    Condition is a factor as is how motivated someone is to sell. For example, my car has 30k miles on it but it has had clear bra its entire life so it has not a single chip. I am OCD about keeping it clean so I detail not just every inch of the car's interior but also the engine bay and undercarriage so that in many ways my car looks like a nearly brand new car and significantly better than many a car with a fraction of the miles. These two factors often converge, as is the case with me. I have little desire (no desire) to sell my car and I treat it that way. On the other hand, Jerry Butler's car, last time I saw it, looked like a car needing a restoration but bless his heart he uses his Z8.....to go surfing!

  15. #15
    I am not sure if all these cars were in the same country, but new car pricing varies (greatly) in Europe from country to country due to taxes etc. and I would think that the new car prices and pricing levels would also impact used car pricing for older and rarer cars such as the Z8. Below is the new car pricing from Finland with their absolutely insane taxation on cars. The prices are in Euros -

    The green arrow is the base price (including 24% VAT), the Red arrow is the automotive tax (based on emissions) , and the black price is the total including the two.
     
    Skip Hammerman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8DinanS2 View Post
    Condition is a factor as is how motivated someone is to sell. For example, my car has 30k miles on it but it has had clear bra its entire life so it has not a single chip. I am OCD about keeping it clean so I detail not just every inch of the car's interior but also the engine bay and undercarriage so that in many ways my car looks like a nearly brand new car and significantly better than many a car with a fraction of the miles. These two factors often converge, as is the case with me. I have little desire (no desire) to sell my car and I treat it that way. On the other hand, Jerry Butler's car, last time I saw it, looked like a car needing a restoration but bless his heart he uses his Z8.....to go surfing!
    I totally agree with you but even with an extremely meticulous detail like this one: https://youtu.be/XDoPPSyqu5o such huge price differences are not justified IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Musta10000 View Post
    I am not sure if all these cars were in the same country, but new car pricing varies (greatly) in Europe from country to country due to taxes etc. and I would think that the new car prices and pricing levels would also impact used car pricing for older and rarer cars such as the Z8. Below is the new car pricing from Finland with their absolutely insane taxation on cars. The prices are in Euros -

    The green arrow is the base price (including 24% VAT), the Red arrow is the automotive tax (based on emissions) , and the black price is the total including the two.
    They are all for sale in Germany, except for two of them (one red/red in Belgium and one silver/red in Austria).

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    I hadn't compared two silver/black yet. Here's an example (both European cars and both 2-owner cars): the price difference is €80 000 while the more expensive of both has 7 500 km more. Besides, the seller mentions ALPINA in capital letters while it's not an Alpina, it only has Alpina wheels. If you're a potential buyer like me, don't be fooled! This car will probably be on sale for many months.

    Links:
    https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...AGE_UNREPAIRED
    https://www.autoscout24.be/fr/offres...dtsrc=listPage
       

  19. #19
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    I would chalk it up to what we call a free market economy. You ask what you want you get what you can. Also, when the Seller lists the car with the word "Alpina" in this instance he was referring to the Alpina wheels fitted to the car. At the end of the day you are not buying a brand new Toyota where they are all the same. No two Z8 will be identical as all will have different levels of wear and detailing, etc. As they say in the biz, "there's an ass for every seat." I see nothing wrong with prices varying widely. Laissez-faire.

  20. #20
    Vzben - with all due respect, what people are lusting or asking for their cars is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what they sell for. Those statistics and data would be interesting.
    Skip Hammerman

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    I just wanted to draw attention to the practices of some dealers/sellers. Not all of them obviously! This weekend, I read the car description of a dealer who has 3 Z8 for sale in Belgium. In each of his ads, he mentions (translation from Dutch):

    "European car TOP-car!
    Full history, all booklets


    Invest in your passion!
    Money in the bank doesn't bring in anything anymore,
    oldtimers are rising in value!!!
    And you have the pleasure of a class sports car,
    oldtimers cost almost nothing in road tax


    We guarantee an excellent service and knowledge!
    We have been an absolute reference in the classic car world for many years!
    We ourselves are immense fans of TOP classic cars, we have our cars mainly out of our own hobby ...
    Unfortunately we can't keep track of them all ourselves."

    Source: https://www.autoscout24.be/fr/offres...dtsrc=listPage

    He claims to be a reference in the classic car world and says the Z8 is an "oldtimer". But it's not. It will be an oldtimer in 10 years or more. That means that the car will cost about €4000 per year in tax road in Belgium. Is it really a good investment to spend €40 000 over the next 10 years? Obviously, they are allowed to ask the price they want and say whatever they want. But as real enthusiasts, I think we are also entitled to report this kind of practices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Musta10000 View Post
    Vzben - with al due respect, what people are lusting or asking for their cars is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what they sell for. Those statistics and data would be interesting.
    I agree that it's not so relevant and that it's hard to know how much these cars will sell for. The only indication we have is the price cuts. I took screenshots of two impressive price cuts recently. Both cars are US import, they had been on sale for at least 1 year and got sold within a few weeks of the price cut.
       

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    Man, 4,000 euros! That’s a lot of money each year in taxes for a car! Here in Texas you pay for registration and an inspection annually. They cost $125 and $25 respectively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8911 View Post
    Man, 4,000 euros! That�s a lot of money each year in taxes for a car! Here in Texas you pay for registration and an inspection annually. They cost $25 and $125 respectively.
    That tax is very expensive indeed. And you have to add another tax of about €5000 when you register the car!

    When I look at the ads, I realize that there really is a two-speed market. There are countless examples of huge differences, like here: the price difference between these two European silver/black is €87 000 while the more expensive of both has 2 800 km more.

    Links:
    https://www.autoscout24.be/fr/offres...dtsrc=listPage
    https://www.autoscout24.be/fr/offres...dtsrc=listPage
       

  25. #25
    Team Z8 Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    vzben I don't think I understand your points, e.g., "Obviously, they are allowed to ask the price they want and say whatever they want. But as real enthusiasts, I think we are also entitled to report this kind of practices." These are simply dealers advertising their cars for sale and they are asking whatever they feel is the right amount of money to party them from their cars. Simple fact is this, IMO: Any real "enthusiast" will do their homework and now as much if not more than the dealer. A bit of knowledge and intelligence is a good thing. Reminds me of a commercial they used to run in New York for a furniture company: "An educated consumer is our best customer." I would spend less time worrying about what dealers are asking and focus in on finding the car that suits your personal needs. Must my $0.02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8DinanS2 View Post
    vzben I don't think I understand your points, e.g., "Obviously, they are allowed to ask the price they want and say whatever they want. But as real enthusiasts, I think we are also entitled to report this kind of practices." These are simply dealers advertising their cars for sale and they are asking whatever they feel is the right amount of money to party them from their cars. Simple fact is this, IMO: Any real "enthusiast" will do their homework and now as much if not more than the dealer. A bit of knowledge and intelligence is a good thing. Reminds me of a commercial they used to run in New York for a furniture company: "An educated consumer is our best customer." I would spend less time worrying about what dealers are asking and focus in on finding the car that suits your personal needs. Must my $0.02.
    I'm not worried about what dealers are asking, because most of them know the market very well and charge correct prices. To use your words, I'm simply a potential buyer willing to pay whatever I feel is the right amount of money for that car. And I think a forum like this one can help other enthusiasts do their homework. They will judge for themselves on the basis of the information above.

  27. #27
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    You could always make an offer and provide your market analysis along with it.

    worst they could say is no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8911 View Post
    Man, 4,000 euros! That’s a lot of money each year in taxes for a car! Here in Texas you pay for registration and an inspection annually. They cost $25 and $125 respectively.
    Don't surprised if things don't change here over the next few years.
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

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    Z8 Millennial Monster 2112's Avatar
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    I am curious, are you actively shopping?
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2112 View Post
    I am curious, are you actively shopping?
    Right now, I'm just watching the market. I prefer to wait, I think it's really not the right time. Especially since I'm observing a downward trend (at least in Europe) and my budget is limited.

  31. #31
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    Well, it is just a suggestion, but maybe this is a good time to either make an offer, or at least enter into some discussions about what it would take to let the car trade hands.

    You might be pleasantly surprised.
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2112 View Post
    Well, it is just a suggestion, but maybe this is a good time to either make an offer, or at least enter into some discussions about what it would take to let the car trade hands.

    You might be pleasantly surprised.
    I totally agree with you and that's probably what I am going to do in the next few months. But I want to take the time, this is an important investment for me and I don't want to have regrets.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by vzben View Post
    I totally agree with you and that's probably what I am going to do in the next few months. But I want to take the time, this is an important investment for me and I don't want to have regrets.
    To paraphrase the great investor Warren Buffett, "be fearful when others are greedy, and be greedy when others are fearful". Lots of fearful people during these troubled times, you might want to strike while the iron is hot!

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    The one at €169 000 with 36 456 km got sold in just a few days.

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    How does color affect the asking price?
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

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    My impression is that color affects the asking price less than mileage does. But sellers definitely ask more for stratus grey and topaz blue and there's not much difference between titanium silver and black. But colors like stratus grey don't necessarily sell more easily. For instance, this rare stratus/crema has been on mobile.de for many months: https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...AGE_UNREPAIRED It was originally at €269 000, is now at €249 000 but doesn't sell.

  38. #38
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    My other automotive passions are Ford GT's and Shelby Mustangs.

    Colors absolutely affect the asking and selling prices for both, not sure how time on the market is affected tho.
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  39. #39
    Hey Michael, our automotive interests are remarkably similar. Aside from my red Z8, my fun cars currently include a 2006 Midnight Blue Ford GT, and a 2002 Carbon Black M5. And for many years I owned an Ivy Green 1966 Shelby GT350, SFM6S914 which I took to numerous SAAC events on the east coast back in the late 80's and 90's. Wish I had kept it, it was an unmolested and unrusted car with matching numbers motor, aluminum T-10 transmission, override traction bars, etc.

  40. #40
    Z8 Millennial Monster 2112's Avatar
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    You have very good taste. 😎

    I too have a '06 midnight blue FGT and a Nightmist blue '67 GT500 #875. I love Ivy Green '66 350's. Sounds like you had a great one.

    My biggest regret was selling an all-black, low mileage '94 850Csi back in the late 90's.

    My purchasing days have been over for a while, good thing I love what I have.
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  41. #41
    I can certainly say the same about you! I am a big fan of the 840/850 series, in fact I went to look at a white 840ci being auctioned on BAT last week! My wife and I have been hiding out at our place in SW Florida since the Covid craziness started, but now we are thinking about heading north. Rather than fly, I was thinking about acquiring the 840ci to drive back to New Jersey, and then let one of my kids who lives in NYC use it for the summer while he and his girlfriend hide out at our place in Vermont for the summer. I really don't have a place to keep it, but my plan would have permitted me to experience the 840 and not worry about storing it for a while. Unfortunately, the car wasn't quite as nice as I had hoped, so I passed. Looks like we will be flying back in a couple of weeks. I still may scoop up an 840 or 850 one of these days, I just love the way they look. An 850csi would be the ultimate, but as you know, they are now approaching Z8 prices.

  42. #42
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    I agree. As much as I loved the Csi, the prices they are asking now, I would probably have to focus on a beautifully restored E9, I car a have only lusted for from afar.

    here is one that I found particularly attractive, but there are certainly many nice ones;

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-bmw-3-0cs-11/

    I think the non-Csi 840 & 850's represent a great value at this time.
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

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    Here's another €30 000 price cut (European version).
    Link: https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=302516106
       

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    US version very well camouflaged (look at the cup holder base)!
    Link: https://www.autoscout24.be/fr/offres...dtsrc=listPage
     

  47. #47
    Actually, the description states it is a South Korean version. European taillights, rear bumper cover, front license plate holder and no rear side marker lights are not consistent with US specifications. The VIN would tell the version for sure, but I did not see one listed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boomster View Post
    Actually, the description states it is a South Korean version. European taillights, rear bumper cover, front license plate holder and no rear side marker lights are not consistent with US specifications. The VIN would tell the version for sure, but I did not see one listed.
    Well observed! Hence the the speedometer in km as well.

  49. #49
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    US version very well camouflaged (look at the cup holder base)!
    In the middle east - and asian market the cup holder was part of the delivery
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  50. #50
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    Sure looks cleaner without those side markers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-acht View Post
    In the middle east - and asian market the cup holder was part of the delivery
    Thanks, Ton! I guess this one mentioned above is probably also from Asia or the Middle East: https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...mageUnrepaired

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    I've been searching to know if this South Korean Z8 has been modified but it's difficult to find an image of a South Korean Z8 on the Internet. All I know for certain is that Japanese Z8 have no front plate holder, rear side markers, European taillights, the speedometer in km and the cup holder. But would South Korean Z8 have a front plate holder and no rear side markers like in the ad?

  53. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by vzben View Post
    I've been searching to know if this South Korean Z8 has been modified but it's difficult to find an image of a South Korean Z8 on the Internet. All I know for certain is that Japanese Z8 have no front plate holder, rear side markers, European taillights, the speedometer in km and the cup holder. But would South Korean Z8 have a front plate holder and no rear side markers like in the ad?
    The US cars do not have a factory installed front plate holder installed. It was provided with the car to be installed if the customer decided to do so. Mine sits snugly in the little cubby hole next to the battery in the trunk and has never disgraced the beautiful lines of the front of the car...(the car has been registered and driven in Virginia and Iowa - states that require a front plate. I have never received a ticket for that in the Z8, Porsches yes).
    Skip Hammerman

    2002 BMW Z8 - Meisterschaft GT, PP installed, CDV delete. 100,000 Mile Club
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  54. #54
    Z8 Millennial Monster 2112's Avatar
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    Non moving violation up here. Just a money grab. Even metermaids will write the ticket.
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  55. #55
    My plate holder has never been installed, still wrapped in bubble wrap. However, to avoid annoying "fix it tickets" I use a license plate bracket that mounts into the tow hook receiver, thus avoiding the need to drill the front bumper. All else being equal, I would prefer not to show a front license plate, but I think it looks kind of cool mounted down low and off to the side.

  56. #56
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    There were 12 Z8 shipped to Korea
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

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    Adding to that list...

    Quote Originally Posted by vzben View Post
    I've been searching to know if this South Korean Z8 has been modified but it's difficult to find an image of a South Korean Z8 on the Internet. All I know for certain is that Japanese Z8 have no front plate holder, rear side markers, European taillights, the speedometer in km and the cup holder. But would South Korean Z8 have a front plate holder and no rear side markers like in the ad?
    I remember something about clear front turn signal lenses for the Asian exports as well. I've never seen a picture of them, but if they're out there it might be interesting modification to remove those yellow lenses.

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    New price drop on that Korean Z8. €50 000 less in less than 2 weeks, it doesn’t look very professional for a dealer.
     

  59. #59
    Z8 Millennial Monster 2112's Avatar
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    They might be open to offers.

    PS your battery is low.
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

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    Indeed, but my budget is much lower (around €110-120k) so I doubt they would accept my offer

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    Record-breaking price for this Z8 sold yesterday by Bonhams: https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/264...th=96&page=1#/! If you compare it to this car (about the same mileage and also non European), the difference is €120,000: https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...l?id=296396147 Once again, you could almost buy a second Z8 with that difference.
       

  62. #62
    Not sure what you are trying to say here. The car sold at Bonhams apparently went for 138,000 Euros, or about $163,000. Definitely not a record-breaking price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boomster View Post
    Not sure what you are trying to say here. The car sold at Bonhams apparently went for 138,000 Euros, or about $163,000. Definitely not a record-breaking price.
    I mean that this price is probably the lowest in 5-10 years (in Europe). Just look at the results of other Z8 auctions from Bonhams for instance: https://www.bonhams.com/search/?q=z8...arch&m0=0?q=z8

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    There's something I really don't understand with the cup holder. I see a cup holder base on this car but the title mentions explicitly that the car is a German version.
    https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...m&id=307151318
     

  65. #65
    Check the VIN. If it’s a U.S. VIN they’re either lying, don’t know, or someone thought adding the cup holder would be “cool.”
    C.A. Cardenas (AKA Dan)
    2003 Z8 (last one?) - Hellrot / Sport Rot Original Owner - Munich Tourist Delivery
    -- Others --
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    Quote Originally Posted by ///M Blitz View Post
    Check the VIN. If it’s a U.S. VIN they’re either lying, don’t know, or someone thought adding the cup holder would be “cool.”
    I've asked the seller and the VIN is AF77... So it's definitely not a US version. But I still doubt it's a European version, who would add a cup holder? The seller says the car is 100% German, it was delivered in Niederlassung Saarbrücken.

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    If you send me the complete AF... I could ask BMW for a VIN decode and we will knew more, it could be a car made for the Asian market
    Best regards from Dortmund

    Karsten
    Alpina Z8 #550/555
    AH61420

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z803 View Post
    If you send me the complete AF... I could ask BMW for a VIN decode and we will knew more, it could be a car made for the Asian market
    Thank you, Karsten! WBAEJ11030AF77705
     

  69. #69
    Googling the VIN WBAEJ11030AF77705 takes it to a Russian page that states "this car has already been sold" (used Google to translate the site into English):
     
    Skip Hammerman

    2002 BMW Z8 - Meisterschaft GT, PP installed, CDV delete. 100,000 Mile Club
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musta10000 View Post
    Googling the VIN WBAEJ11030AF77705 takes it to a Russian page that states "this car has already been sold" (used Google to translate the site into English):
    That would make sense: cup holder with EU spec, the production year is the same (2000) and the mileage is 10.000km (now 14.700km). Let�s hope Karsten will be able to unravel the mystery.

  71. #71
    Z8 Millennial Monster 2112's Avatar
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    My car is a Germany delivered EU spec 2000 and has a cup holder.
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2112 View Post
    My car is a Germany delivered EU spec 2000 and has a cup holder.
    The cup holder mystery thickens.

  73. #73
    Z8 Millennial Monster 2112's Avatar
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    I think it may have something to do with very early cars.
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

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    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    428 Warning Triangle Warndreieck
    672 Cd Changer Bmw For 6 Cds Cd Wechsler 6-fach
    801 Germany Version Deutschland-ausfuehrung
    863 Europe/dealer Directory Service Kontakt-flyer Europa
    879 German / On-board Documentation Deutsch / Bordliteratur
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

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