20" BMW Motorsport 'Style 101' wheels

[macfly]

These handsome wheels can be ordered from your local BMW dealer, or delivered directly from Dana at Peter Pan BMW.

The part numbers are as follows:

Front: 20" x 9" BMW P/N 36 11 6 757 370 - Tire: Pirelli P-Zero 255/35/20 ZR-XL97Y
Rear: 20" x 10" BMW P/N 36 11 6 757 371 - Tire: Pirelli P-Zero 295/30/20 ZR-XL101Y
.

[macfly]

These wheels have been growing on me ever since I first saw them, and finally I decided to break down and buy a set. I also went a little 'off menu' and got the Pirelli tires as they have a wider rear than Michelin for the 20" rim, which in my opinion it looks much better.

Overall I think this is the wheel set I'll stick with for now, since it keeps the car all BMW. The front rims weighed exactly the same as the Hamann's at 61lbs, the rears added 3lbs to come in at 66lbs.

[fun2drive]

Absolutely stunning!
:thumbsup:

[metzger]

Andrew:

I think they look great! Are the part #'s for the polished rims? Still haven't totally decided whether or not to sell or keep my car, but if I go with the latter, I may well add a set of these. Did you buy from Bavarian Auto? I ask, because they sell OEM wheels and Pirelli tire combos. thanks!

Mike

[macfly]

I bought the rims from Peter Pan BMW, they delivered them to Wheel Enhancements here in LA who polished the rims and got the tires for me. It seems that the polished rim is no longer a BMW option, so annoyingly that added another $1000 to the overall cost.

[thegunguy]

Aesthetically, I really like the fitment of the Pirellis on the rear vs. the PS2.

[macfly]

And they're OEM kit for the Enzo, the 430 all the Lambo's and several other very sportif machines, so they should do a good enough job on the car for me, especially as this isn't a car I ever demand that much of, compared to the poor Lotus that gets it's neck rung at the track ever other week!

[Z8Mania]

very nice Andrew, congratulations!!

[redz8]

Very Nice! The polished rims look really nice on the silver Z. If I ever decide to upgrade the wheels, I'll go for these :thumbsup:

[Barneyboybmw]

Andrew
I think your new wheels are stunning, have just spoken to my dealer here in the UK whom tells me they were originally made for the seven series, did you have to do any alterations or can they fit straight on to the Z8. The cost here just for the wheels is approx $4888 how does this compare with your charges.

[macfly]

You can put them straight onto your car, but I wouldn't put 20" rims on without doing the Performance Package upgrade, and in all honesty I'd also seriously consider changing the suspension to the Alpina set up. This will give a far nicer ride than the stock Z8, and if you add the H&R swaybars you'll have a car that will handle better while being as smooth as a Roller on those bumpy B roads.

[gutMD]

Andrew,
Been out of town and just posted this same question on your For Sale thread prior seeing this one.
How do the Pirelli's compare to the PS2's with regard to handling, road noise comfort, etc..

Oh BTW, those look spectacular on your silver car and the $1000 you spent on the polished edge was worth every penny.

ENJOY !!!

[macfly]

Tirerack say the Pirelli's are the best of the bunch in their own tire tests (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=98).

[Grease Monkey]

Great looking wheels Mac! I know your Z8 is primarily used for cruising so ultimate performance is not a high priority, but for those whose priority is better handling, I think there are a few things to keep in mind. The OE wheel and tire combo weighs 59 lbs. up front and 64 lbs. in the rear. According to Mac, the BMW Motorsport 20" wheel and Pirelli tire combo weighs 61 lbs. up front and 66 lbs. in the rear. By comparison, stock wheels with OE sized Michelin PS2s weigh 54 lbs. up front and 59 lbs. in the rear. Even better, 19" BBS RGRs with PS2s weigh 45 lbs. up front and 49 lbs. in the rear. Given the importance of unsprung weight on handling performance, the differences are substantial. Also, the reason the Z8 tends towards understeer is primarily due to the front to rear tire stagger (245 vs. 275). By going to 255 vs. 295, you increase that stagger even more. Also, I want to second Mac's recommendation about installing the PP and switching to the Alpina set-up if you go to 20" rims on your Z8. I think there is a very real possibility of shock tower damage if you don't do both. Finally, many years ago I tried to find a company willing to reproduce the OE style wheels in a 19" size but was unable to find anyone up to the task. I have always felt the OE design is the best looking wheel on a Z8 and the 19" size would improve handling performance due to shorter sidewalls. I noticed on another thread that there is now the possibility of having 19" forged reproductions of the OE wheels made. Potentially, these could be lighter yet stronger than the OE wheels due to the forging process. This sounds like the best possible combination for upgrading the handling performance of a Z8 while retaining the best looking wheel design available. I strongly encourage anyone interested to support this project.

[macfly]

GM, as time goes by I also do think the OEM rims are the best looking, but they are small, narrow and heavy compared to what we could have on the car. The idea of a forged set of 19" rims really does seem attractive to me, so I'll wait for ggg1 to come back to us on this, and if his friend feels there is a way to move the project ahead I will also ask the guys at the Z8 Club if they would be interested to participate, as I'm heading to Munich in May to do the drive over the Alps to the historic GP in Monaco with them. It is quite a tall order finding 25 owners to do this, but I think we have a pretty good chance with both sides of the Atlantic combined.

[Z8Mania]

Im in for the 19" OEM style high quality wheel project.

I happen to think the wheels GM has on his car- those BBS look very good. For anyone wondering I believe each lb of unsprung weight gives the benefit of shaving over 3lbs of sprung weight. So GM has an advantage of 19lbs over stock or 57lbs of sprung weight. If BMW could have taken those 57 lbs out of the sprung weight, I am sure they would have. If we can get some nice CCM brakes in the mix, we could further reduce unsprung weight. To anyone considering the lighter weight wheels- I dont have them on my car for aesthetic reasons but I have some experience with this and I can say this is an improvement you should feel on any car.

[macfly]

GM, I had the original rim/tire weight a bit heavier than your measurements. All of my rims were weighed on the same scales, so they are at least correct in relation to each other. These are what my notes show on wheel tire sets, but as yet I haven't weighted the raw rims.

wheel....................tire........................front.................rear

Stock....................Bridgestone r/f........62lbs.................67lbs

BBS RS-GT 20".......Michelin PS2............48lbs................52lbs

Hamann 20"...........Michelin PS2............61lbs................63lbs

BMW M Sport 20"....Pielli P Zero.............61lbs...............66lbs

[Bend]

Andrew,
I looked through the site to see if someone had posted the weights of the 20 inch Alpina wheels with the Michelin PS2's. Couldn't find them. It would be nice if someone knows that to include that info in your list.
Ted

[macfly]

I popped the weights over into the main thread (http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/showthread.php?t=203&referrerid=2) on tire specs, and added k's for our EU pals, as it might be useful info to have on hand if other folks want to find it quickly, or have additions to make.

[Grease Monkey]

Mac, the weight I used for the stock wheels and tires was from my old set and I'm afraid I didn't realize how much weight had been lost due to tire wear. I weighed the brand new set from 2003 Z8 on 2 different scales and came up with the following numbers: front OE wheels with Bridgestone RE040 RF tires = 62 lbs. and rear OE wheels with Bridgestone RE040 RF tires = 67 lbs. On the same scales, the OE front wheels weighed 29 lbs. and the rear OE wheels weighed 31 lbs. There could be some variation from one set to another due to wheel weights but since our numbers are now in agreement, I think we have a reliable working number. Since my numbers for OE wheels with PS2s mounted were measured when the tires were new, they should be accurate as stated. Same goes for 19" BBS RGR with PS2s (245/275). I expect my 19" BBS RGRs with the larger PS2s (265/285) to weigh 46 lbs. in front and 50 lbs. in the rear. I can add that 19" BBS RGRs with Yokohama Advan Sport tires (265/285) weighed 49 lbs. in front and 53 lbs. in the rear. Hope this helps.

[redz8]

2149
2150
2151

[Norcal]

I really like the "Wire wheel" look on this classic beauty. Nice job.

[Dogsbreath]

Very nice !

dave p

[redz8]

Thanks for the compliments!

I just finished washing the car, and even after a short drive, I must say that cleaning these wheels will take a lot more effort. I should switch to the low-dust break pads that some of you are using.

[macfly]

Yes, I was wondering about that too! Happily the Brembo's don't make that much dust!

[Z8doc]

Hmmm....I was looking over the pics of the 20" Hamaan vs your new 20" Motorsports. After much consideration, I like the Hamaan on your silver Z8 better. Don't get me wrong, the Motorsport wheels are nice looking, but some of those pics of your car in the gallery with the Hamaans are just outstanding and I do not think the car would be as sexy in those shots with the Motorsport wheel. No offense to those wheels on the Stratus or on Carlos' red (which is actually hypersilver) as those look great. But as you know -- not everything looks good on a silver car.

Rifle's wheels from the e60 look great on the Black and on the Topaz but probably would look odd on silver. But in the end.... to each his own as I am sure there are those who really do not care for my Beyern wheels either. I like mine a lot for many reasons (OEM Silver, polished lip, OEM fitment, lighter weight, easy replacement, reasonable price) but I would admit, they do not look " absolutely fantastic" either.

[Z8doc]

Thanks for the compliments!

I just finished washing the car, and even after a short drive, I must say that cleaning these wheels will take a lot more effort. I should switch to the low-dust break pads that some of you are using.

Try the Centric Posi-Quiets from Zeckhausen Racing. Excellent performance and really low low dust!!

[macfly]

Wheels are so personal and particular, but I'm 100% certain the Motorsport 20" are better looking on my car for my taste. I don't know if you ever saw the Hamann's in the flesh, they were good, but they were always a little spindly and 'wagon-wheely' with too shallow a rim. I wonder too if you might just be liking those photos more than the wheels, as you don't really see them up close in detail, but just the impression they make in a full photo. Remember that I haven't yet taken these new wheels out for a one on one shoot, they've only been shot in the big groups in Monterey, which was the first time since fitting them that the car left the garage! Beyond the look, which I really do prefer, they are also BMW period correct alternatives, something I also appreciate.

Overall I am coming around to thinking that I'll eventually return to stock, but use the Alcon brakes with black calipers, as I really don't think it is possible to better the stock look.:cool:

[Z8doc]

Great photos for sure of your car but I really concentrated on the "whole effect". I have a pretty good eye to as to what something would look like conceptually and really think the Hamanns look better on your silver car than the Motorsports would in those photos but like you said, personal decision ... in they eye of the beholder... so to speak.

The stock wheels are sexy for sure, just wish they were not 18" due to the handling characteristics being better with either a 19" or 20" wheel. Dinan has had a Brembo brake upgrade for awhile, as well as others. The UUC version is another one and is probably the one to have if you are maintaining your stock wheels but wanting a brake upgrade. For me, with red interior, I would always favor the Red caliper though. On your Silver/ Black, I agree -- black is the way to go.

[macfly]

We got enough interest in the 19" stock replica project for me to talk to several manufacturers, but in doing the research I also ran across all kinds of legal concerns with doing a small run of wheels, and the potential liabibility concerns which are so enormous that it wouldn't be prudent to sell a small run of wheels here in the US without going through DoT crash & safety ratings, and you can imagine the cost of that, so that dream is over!

[Z8doc]

I also went a little 'off menu' and got the Pirelli tires as they have a wider rear than Michelin for the 20" rim, which in my opinion it looks much better.

The rear tire width of the Pirelli's does look better, did you have those in Monterey and was that what was rubbing / problem with needing spacers?:confused:

[macfly]

Yes, those tires were added with the rims, as is shown further up this thread. The outside of the driver's side rear tire was rubbing on a little plastic lip inside the fender on full compression, the wheel just needs a little more negative camber to clear it, and that will also be a fine adjustment for all the twisties I love so much, so I'll likely dial in 1/2º all round.

There were signs of rubbing on the shocks, but it turns out those marks were from the Hamann's, as I discovered on the run from Monterey to Blackhawk the spacers took the wheel in the wrong direction, which is why I stopped in at Peter Pan to have them taken out that morning. (thanks Dana!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:)

[redz8]

Try the Centric Posi-Quiets from Zeckhausen Racing. Excellent performance and really low low dust!!

I didn't know about http://www.zeckhausen.com/BMW/Z8.htm they have a bunch of stuff that I was looking for. Thanks for the pointer :thumbsup:

[riverflyer]

Mac, the weight I used for the stock wheels and tires was from my old set and I'm afraid I didn't realize how much weight had been lost due to tire wear. I weighed the brand new set from 2003 Z8 on 2 different scales and came up with the following numbers: front OE wheels with Bridgestone RE040 RF tires = 62 lbs. and rear OE wheels with Bridgestone RE040 RF tires = 67 lbs. On the same scales, the OE front wheels weighed 29 lbs. and the rear OE wheels weighed 31 lbs. There could be some variation from one set to another due to wheel weights but since our numbers are now in agreement, I think we have a reliable working number. Since my numbers for OE wheels with PS2s mounted were measured when the tires were new, they should be accurate as stated. Same goes for 19" BBS RGR with PS2s (245/275). I expect my 19" BBS RGRs with the larger PS2s (265/285) to weigh 46 lbs. in front and 50 lbs. in the rear. I can add that 19" BBS RGRs with Yokohama Advan Sport tires (265/285) weighed 49 lbs. in front and 53 lbs. in the rear. Hope this helps.

GM, I am with you on the unsprung weight. My car came with 20" HRE's. I am presently running SO3's on them. They fall a bit closer in total weight to the BBS example than the OE weight.
I do have a set of 19" that I may switch to but have yet to determine if they will clear the brembo's on the car. I think not, so will have to add spacers. Lately, the 20s have grown on me and I was thinking about just keeping them, at least until the tires wear out! Your comments about needing the Alpina suspension to run 20's is a bit alarming. I have dinan stage two and am planning on adding the camber plates for a bit more positive turn in. Almost all my driving is mountain roads and my car has the pp kit done and has beautiful shut lines.
Any suggestions?
thanks, John

[Z8doc]

that is not to say, spacers may not be needed to make the wheel fit properly, such as hub centric rings or spacers to adjust to proper offset.

Regarding the 20" wheels and Dinan set up. I have the full Dinan Stage 3 setup and have had so for a long time, even before adding the Performance Package. I have had 20" Beyern Wheels, which are several pound lighter per corner than the OEM 18" and have found that combined with Michelin PS2s, the Z8 handles wonderfully with a very reasonable compliant ride (and I have some seriously bad roads here in OK).

I think the extra weight savings of the HREs you currently have would be worth keeping, especially since unsprung weight is well... unsprung weight. If you are worried that the Dinan suspension somehow increases the likelyhood of frame damage, that has not been the case, in fact, it was the castor plate design of Dinan that influenced the plate design of the Performance package from BMW to prevent problems. I think you would be fine with your existing wheels and just beefing up to the Dinan Castor plates. Although, I like the fit and finish of the Pirelli PZeros that Andrew has as if "fills out" the rear wheel better than the PS2s and are on my next tire list.

[riverflyer]

Doc, thanks for the thoughtful reply. Appreciate the feedback. Anyone know if the castor plates easy to install? I assume I will need to have updated alignment after setup? thanks

[thegunguy]

They're a snap to install, and yes you'll need an alignment.

[macfly]

Great news for all other owners of these rims and Alpina rims, the Michelin Pilot Sports are now available in our 'correct' sizes, which will fill the wheel wells, and look right on the rims.
Fronts (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+PS2&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=535YR0SPORTPS2XL&tab=Sizes) & Rears (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+PS2&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=83YR0SPORTPS2XL&tab=Sizes).

[Z8Mania]

Andrew, Im confused, didnt the 20" Alpina wheels use MPS2 tires? Were they discontinued after a while?

[macfly]

Yes they did, but they were actually undersized for the rims, look at the second post in the thread, the images show the difference between what was originally used and what I call the correct size.

Even though the Pirelli is not meant to be as good as the MPS2 I really noticed the handling difference with the wider tires, the car became so much more surefooted, and a very, very brisk pace is possible without any tire stress, noise or drama. So much so that I have worn the outside of the tires out zipping through all the twisties, so my next project will be getting a fresh alignment done with a bit more negative camber dialed in before this summers big trip. I'll do this at one of the race shops here in LA, and with pictures because at present we have no info on the board about setting up that stuff, but as us Lotus owners know it can make a huge difference to the drive.

[zed8]

Front:

245/45/18 - Stock - 26.68" dia.
245/35/20 - 26.75" dia. (closest in overall dia.)
255/35/20 - 27.02" dia.

Rear:

275/40/18 - Stock - 26.66" dia.
285/30/20 - 26.73" dia. (closest in overall dia.)
295/30/20 - 26.96" dia.


My setup is 254 front and 285 rear. These sizes are the closest to the stock. I used MPS 2 back in 2004 and still have the same tires.

[Z8Mania]

Zed, thank you. If you have the exact same tires as from 04, you should think about replacing them soon, I would generally replace tires that dont get daily use after 5 years (this is a bit aggressive I think the standard advice varies between 6-8 years). Daily tires get worn out fast with me so I never see 5 years :)

[riverflyer]

Zed, thank you. If you have the exact same tires as from 04, you should think about replacing them soon, I would generally replace tires that dont get daily use after 5 years (this is a bit aggressive I think the standard advice varies between 6-8 years). Daily tires get worn out fast with me so I never see 5 years :)

Jerry, am with you on this. My pcar tt is about to get reshod after less than 4k on the set! (Although that was a whole year and I also do not get more than 10% of my miles on anything resembling a straight road). My main mileage is put on my weekly 100 mile roundtrip from the coast to a nearby inland valley. Beautiful drive over a pass and through some gorgous redwoods, but all never ending twisties.
I do have two cars coming up for tires this year due to time though, its going to be an expensive tire year. ;)

[Z8Mania]

Same here- Ive got wifes car- both summer and snows + my DD summers and snows + X5 snows + possible Z8 going to alpina suspension and wheels and tires.... so what is that- 24 tires and I just bought a new set of rears for my 599.... :) DFA with tires folks.

[zed8]

Zed, thank you. If you have the exact same tires as from 04, you should think about replacing them soon, I would generally replace tires that dont get daily use after 5 years (this is a bit aggressive I think the standard advice varies between 6-8 years). Daily tires get worn out fast with me so I never see 5 years :)

Jerry, exactly I use the same tires from 04. I will change them this summer since I`m planning to drive more this year. For the last 5 years I made approximately 1200 miles so I never needed to change the tires. Now its been 6 years with the same tires and even last summer the tires were spinning on 4th gear.

This summer will be the tire changing season for me as well. I will have to change my DD Q7 3.0 TDI 21" tires and Z8 tires.

[Z8Mania]

Great minds :)

[Carter Rise]

I just picked up a set of these and am having the PZeros mounted and shipped to me. I presume these use the same lug bolts as the stock wheels? If any of you remember please let me know.

Also, I am told the center caps are backordered for 2 months, does anyone have a good source for them? My local dealer parts dept is woefully unhelpful so any thoughts would be appreciated.

[macfly]

The lug bolts are the same as I remember, you will want to make sure that you get the correct rear camber set so you have no rubbing with the PZeros, I think it is around -1.5º but would you believe I still haven't been able to get the correct alingment specs for either the Z8 or the Alpina from anyone, not even the Z8 Club has been able to discover them!

[Carter Rise]

Thanks. I will make sure to get the rear alignment change done. I am working on trying to get the Alpina suspension set-up to go with this.

This board is a huge help and a wealth of information.

[macfly]

Dana Caldwell at Peter Pan is your man for the full Alpina set up - 650 204 7550

[Norcal]

When I saw the alignment sheet the other day, I think stock setting was Front 0.30', R 1.30'

I'm going to try about R: 2.15' at the rear. The front is not adjustable for now. We're also going to set front tow at 0.

Also, I know Dana has an extra Alpina set on his hands at the moment, and has the wheel caps too in-stock.

[macfly]

Ian, finally I have the alignment specs, and will post the PDF and full info tomorrow. It would be great to hear what you set yours at, and see how it works. Now I have the specs I will take my car to my old racing shop, and get it properly set up over there. Also any thoughts about getting some kind of adjustability built into the front, after about 4,000 miles the front tires are worn out completely on the outside, but hardly worn at all on the inside.

[thegunguy]

Wonder if we could emulate Bob's (http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/showthread.php?t=987) for less expense?

It's really rather shameful that the Z8 front end is pretty much directly off of the 6cyl E39 5. It's parts bin drudgery, and usually form some real lackluster models. That being said - since it's all fairly standard stuff - it would seem like there are some existing aftermarket options that would bolt up rather easily.

An easy/"dumb" solution would be to mock up some actual plates that add fixed negative camber like the Dinan plates. Any machine shop could turn these out rather easily. There's probably half a degree or more to be had.

The funny part is the more I dig into the mechanical bits, the more I find its a game of identifying the donor car. Hmm - fun color-coded cutaway project in Photoshop one day...

[Dutch Frank]

According to the size chart the best front tires for the 20' Motorsport wheels are 245/35/20. My dealer supplied the wheels with 255/35/20. Since I am going 285/30/20 on the rear axle I am wondering whether this is a problem. Impossible to get 295/30/20 from Michelin, so what to do? Refuse the 255's?

I read in this forum that 255 helps eliminate understeer more and that Alpina is using 255/20 and 285/20 on their wheels, so apparently they accept a difference in circumference between front and right.

Any thoughts??

Thanks in advance for you reply

[macfly]

I am sure you can use the 255/35/20 f - 285/30/20 r combination with no problem, but if you can't get the 295/30/20 from Michelin then maybe try the Pirelli's, I have been happy with them.

[Dutch Frank]

Thanks for your reply!
However; which tye size would have your preference if you had a free choice; 245/35/20 or 255/35/20 in combination with the 285/30/20 Michelin's?
I have had some bad experiences with Pirelli tyres on my 997 Turbo, hence the Michelin preference.

[macfly]

I would take the wider footprint for sure, especially in the front.

What was your bad experience with the Pirelli's? I recently heard of a Corvette owner who also didn't like them, but I have been very happy with mine.

[Dutch Frank]

Thanks again for your answer on the footprint! Great to have somebody like you and great to have this forum!

The Pirelli's were just a nightmare to get right. It took 6 tyres to get 2 good rear tyres for the 997 turbo (305/19 stock size).
All tyres suffert from differences in height, which made impossible to get them balanced properly and the terrible ride that came with it.
If I were to go with the Pirelli's would it be the Rosso's? (like on the Porsche)

[macfly]

The ones I have are just called P-Zero. I guess I'll be ordering a second set of them soon, as it seem Michelin don't make our sizes yet, even though they are listed on their site.

Oddly enough I would only recommend Michelin for the Porsche. When I had my GT3 I only used Michelin Pilot Sport (& Cup) tires, and that was the only brand recommended for the 911 here by the owner groups and the Porsche USA.

[Dutch Frank]

You are right; they are called P-Zero.

Re Porsche; all the Porsches I bought new over the past couple of years (4S, Turbo, Panamera) had Pirelli tyres on them straight from the factory. Funny how this varies per country.

Once the new wheels are on my Z8 I will post some pictures. Next upgrade may be the exhaust, but I am not sure....

[Norcal]

Tires are not just by country. On my 997 GT3 and RS, it was either the mich. Cups OR the pirellis. Wasn't a choice on the order that I recall. Most seemed to prefer the mich. I go those on both cars (rip)

[Z8Mania]

So you guys are really arguing for the dinan plates huh........ Ill see about getting them... :)

[Norcal]

I have the Dinan plates. Not sure I can tell if they "work" but the car feels good and I think they could help the shock towers remain more rigid.

[Carter Rise]

The 20" motorsport wheels are now on with 255s and 295s. Some rubbing as predicted -seems to be the attachment of the rear valence to the rear fender? Thank you for sending me to Dana. He is getting me the alpina set-up, and we will get the alignment and rubbing figured out at the same time.

[macfly]

Yes, I think around -2º camber will both sort the rubbing out and help to even out the tire wear, mine are worn right down on the outside after just 3k miles at -1.2º

[Dutch Frank]

I finally had my 20" Motorsport wheels fitted today! I think they look great.
Had Pirelli tyres fitted as suggested by Macfly and the rear camber adjusted to -2". No problems whatsoever.
I post some pics to share my enthousiasm and thanks to this Forum for the advice given.
Tried to post pices, how do I post URL's??? Pictures are just on my (Apple) computer; sorry to be so stupid.

[macfly]

Check this thread for picture posting info - http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/showpost.php?p=77&postcount=1

[Dutch Frank]

Thanks Macfly I managed to post the pictures now.

Pictures taken with Iphone 3GS not bad if I may say so..
Finally a sunny day in Holland; weather has been awful this spring/summer so far

Thanks again!

[Norcal]

Looks nice (pretty good for a camera phone too)

[Z8Mania]

Nice pictures! :)

[thegunguy]

Lovely on black.

[redz8]

They look fantastic on black. These wheels really work well with any color z8. Very tempting, again.

[Carter Rise]

My BMW techician reports the 20 inch motorsports with 255s are now rubbing in the front. They weren't rubbing before, but with the alpina suspension and dinan camber plates they are now rubbing. He wants me to find a 5mm spacer for the wheel. I have a call into Peter Pan BMW for suggestions, but Dana is on vaca for 2 weeks. Does anyone have any thoughts? The tech swears the camber plates aren't backwards and that the alignment has been done.

[Norcal]

Yes, Dana is out for 2 weeks, but ask for Matt (master Z8 tech). If these wheels are the same offset and size as the Alpina wheels, why would they rub? Caster plates only add space if anything. Rubbing on what? where?

[Carter Rise]

Thanks. Matt got in touch with me and is helping me sort the issue. I don't know if they are the same offset and dimensions as the Alpina wheels. They are hitting the strut. I am going to the dealership this afternoon to see where on the strut they are hitting.

[macfly]

I have exactly that set up, and no front rubs. Is it rubbing on the inside (spring) or outside (body)?

[Norcal]

I'm leaving for Peter Pan now. Will be there until about 12:30. C you there if you come down early.

[Carter Rise]

The inside lip of the wheel and the Pirelli are both contacting the strut. You can actually feel the drag while on the lift when you turn the wheel.

My tech is thinking 5mm spacer...

Any thoughts?

[macfly]

It seems unusual but I guess every wheel is slightly different, however because none of the rest of us have had this experience I'd suggest checking the seating and positioning of the spring before doing a spacer.

[Norcal]

Do you have Brembos? When talking with Matt today, he mentioned that the hats on the brembos were slightly thinner than the stock brakes by a few mm, which might bring the wheels closer to the struts. He's checking mine for any rubbing that might have taken place during recent "Spirited driving" :)

[macfly]

I have the Brembo's and no rubbing? However 5mm spacers at the front might not be a terrible change to make, but be aware it might make the car a little more prone to oversteer.

[Norcal]

Then back off the rear bar by one hole and probably have better grip in the rear (less DSC?).

[Carter Rise]

Thanks for the suggestions. No brembos (yet). Matt at Peter Pan reports that these wheels have a 24mm offset vs. 20mm stock and that brings the inner wheel lip very close to the strut. He thinks the Alpina strut and the stock strut are the same diameter, so that should not be the cause of the problem. I did run about 100 miles with the 20" Motorsport wheels before putting the Alpina suspension in. While I had some rubbing in the back, there didn't seem to be any in the front. Strange...

I have ordered 5mm spacers and extended lug bolts from Turner Motorsports, so we will try that. I appreciate the suggestion on checking the spring seating and placement and will do that right away.

[Z8doc]

Although the Michelins and Pirellis share the same size (255/35R/20) that size is only footprint to sidewall ratio and says nothing about the actual true width of the tire from outer sidewall to inner sidewall as this will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. If you look closely at Andrew's original pics of the Pirellis compared to the MSP2s, you can see what I am talking about. I have the Beyern Type 5 wheels, which have the exact offset as the OEM wheels and the OEM Alpina wheels. I was wrong in another post elsewhere in the forum regarding the Beyerns and the motorsport 20" having the same offset as you are correct that they do have 24mm offset compared to 20mm OEM. With the Beyerns and Pirellis, I have no rubbing front or rear after about 280 highway miles on them. I am using the OEM Z8 Struts (Sachs) but have Dinan Stage 3 springs and sways, Dinan CASTER plates (the do not affect camber) and the Performance package plates.

[Carter Rise]

It looks like the spacers have solved the problem. I won't know for sure until I have a chance to take it out myself, but the tech reports no more rubbing. Thanks everyone for your advice.

[Carter Rise]

Thanks for all the help, guys. The car is home and it drives much, much better than stock. It corners flatter and rides a lot better. We needed 5mm spacers in front and -2 camber on the rear to make the 20 inch wheels work. The folks at Peter Pan were a huge help, too.

I have (tried to) attach some pics. I am optimistic they will magically appear.

Carter

[Z8Mania]

They worked and the car looks great. Glad its working out :)

[macfly]

I love the wheels, but be very careful with them, I was at Peter Pan today, and three of my four have small rim distortions in them from normal Californian back roads. I hope you are also running them with the Alpina suspension, as I think the stock compression may be too harsh for the car.

[redz8]

I agree with the ride harshness. I had the same exact wheels with Z8 suspension on my previous car. If I ever decide on 20" wheels again, the complete Alpina suspension will come first.

But, IMO, the standard Z8 wheels are hard to beat.

[Carter Rise]

We put in the full euro Alpina suspension + camber plates. The ride is much better.

[macfly]

Well done, it is an absolute must do with the 20's, I can't emphasize this enough.

[Carter Rise]

It looks like I have a slow leak in one of my rears. Here's a stupid question. How do I remove the hub cap on these 20" motorsport wheels? I looked for a slot for a screwdriver to pop them off, but nothing is readily apparent. Thanks.

Carter

[macfly]

I would check in your tool area under trunk base, as your shop may well have put it in there. It looks like this, and fits over the caps with the same 17mm nut head that will loosen the wheel.

The right way to remove it is to rotate it, not to pry it.

If you have no other option I'd use a towel and your hand, turn it anti-clockwise and it'll pop off, but it is a pretty tight click on/off. I wouldn't pry it unless it is a last resort as you could damage either the cap, or your rim.

Here is a pic of the tool, so you know what you're looking for.

[Carter Rise]

Am I glad I didn't just start prying! (my naturally incliniation, of course)

Many thanks

[thegunguy]

Sorry to give bad advice. I was assuming they were the same as the standard cap.

[Carter Rise]

Not in the trunk. Off to the dealer - it's always something! I can actually read the part number off the photo, so it will go smoothly. These cars are so rare in Virginia that this board is invaluable.

[Klaney]

Just installed the 20" Motorsports w the new Super Sports.
Drives great...love the tires! Super responsive but ride
really not compromised? Still as quiet and smooth as
The 18" pilots. No rubs noticed at this point.

[Z8doc]

Just installed the 20" Motorsports w the new Super Sports.
Drives great...love the tires! Super responsive but ride
really not compromised? Still as quiet and smooth as
The 18" pilots. No rubs noticed at this point.

let's see it!!:thumbsup:

[///M Blitz]

The Z8 was made for the 20" Motorsport wheels and vice-versa. They not only give the car a more menacing look because of the wider stance, but the mesh style wheels are just the ticket for the Z8's retro look.:thumbsup:

[Z8Mania]

I agree the spokes give a more retro feel. The wheels look great. I prefer the Alpina wheels but these do compliment the car well. Good luck and congratulations!