Found - Z8 for driving (60078) [Archive]

macfly

March 11th 2009, 05:16

Hey, I saw that picture thats your avatar in one of my mags recently, very nice!

There are a lot of great cars on EBay (http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQLHQ5fSALEQ5fCURRENCYZ0QQ_nkwZQ22bmwQ20z8Q22QQLHQ5fPrefLocZ1QQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZR9QQ_mdoZQQ_sargnZ2QQ_sopZ3), Autotrader (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/searchresults.jsp?mod_bookmark_id=null&advanced=&bkms=1155062082271&num_records=&certified=&search=y&lang=&search_type=both&make=BMW&model=Z8&start_year=1981&end_year=2006&min_price=100&max_price=200000&distance=0&address=90069&x=68&y=9), Vast (http://www.vast.com/cars?make_id=BMW&model_id=Z8&body=Convertible) and Cars.com (http://www.cars.com/go/search/search_results.jsp?ct=12&tracktype=usedcc&searchType=22&cid=&dlid=&dgid=&amid=&cname=&rd=&ddrd=30&zc=90069&makeid=5&modelid=4787&pageNumber=&numResultsPerPage=100&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE%20descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-%7CE-ANY%7CM-_5_%7CG-20000%7CH-%7CD-_4787_%7CN-N%7CR-10000%7CI-1%7CP-PRICE%20descending%7CQ-descending%7CX-popular%7CZ-90069&aff=national)

If you are looking for a car to drive a lot the silver and red are the easiest to live with. Beware BMW''s black, it is very soft paint, so not only is it the hardest to keep clean, but cleaning it swirls and scratches it like crazy!

Sir Callaby

March 11th 2009, 16:12

Thanks Andrew,
My favored color is the dark blue (Topas) followed by the red. But as my lovely wife said, I will have to take the color of the car, which will be the right deal. I am currently learning all about the Z8 and the Z8 Club website is the best source of information. I am monitoring the market at Ebay (lots of listings, but very few sales), AutoTrader.com, Hemmings, etc. The prices as listed on Ednumds.com and Kelly Blue Book seem to be somewhat away from the demands on these sites. There is a silver/black Z8 at a used car dealer close by (Select Luxury Cars, Marietta, GA), but the guys there don't know much about the car and ask a little too much money. I try to find a car, which will fit more to my budget. Therefore it can have 30,000 to 60,000 miles on and not being perfect in every aspect. I will be able to give a driver the necessary attention to make it look great again.

Also thanks for the comment on my Triumph. Since BMW owns the Triumph brand, it is practicly a BMW. Triumph was founded by a German (Bavarian) - Siegfried Bettmann in 1885 as a bicyle import company and became a car manufactuer in 1921. Since we are pretty active with the car, we made it into Classic Motorsport (October or November issue) with our participation at the Atlanta British Car Days in Rome, GA (we won Best in Class and Best in Show from the Georgia Triumph Association). The Vintage Auto Television recorded about 5 minutes video from our car at the Hilton Head Concours d'Elegance Historic Tour through Savannah. There, somebody took also the pictures to put on the Conceptcarz website: http://www.conceptcarz.com/events/eventVehicle.aspx?carID=16190&eventID=230&catID=1838
We won Best in Class Concours at the National Triumph Convention last year in Michigan, which is part of the 22 awards we won with the car in the last three years. I guess you saw the picture and story in Hemmings Sports and Exotic Cars. Beside the fact that the Triumph is getting 60 years old this month, we drive it regulary (in sunshine) about 2000 miles per year.
A BMW Z8 would look great next to it in our garage.

macfly

March 20th 2009, 20:18

I guess you saw the picture and story in Hemmings Sports and Exotic Cars.
Yes, that was the one - very nice!

Let us know when you find you Z8 too, another one just went to GA today.

Sir Callaby

March 20th 2009, 21:01

Dear Andrew,
What is that about another Z8 went to Georgia, today?
Did I miss something?

macfly

March 20th 2009, 22:28

Yes, one that was for sale here found a new owner and home in GA. http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/showthread.php?t=1391

macfly

March 21st 2009, 09:23

Did you see this one (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=257558245&dealer_id=57940153&car_year=2002&bkms=1155062082271&num_records=&model=Z8&lang=&mod_bookmark_id=null&start_year=1981&certified=&search_type=both&distance=0&ct=u&first_record=26&make=BMW&min_price=100&address=90069&advanced=&end_year=2006&pager.offset=25&max_price=200000&cardist=41&standard=false)? Great price so long as all the essentials check out.

Sir Callaby

March 23rd 2009, 18:28

Yes - it is also on Ebay since at least early February. The last bidding ended with the high on $ 73,650 reserve not met.
You mention the "essentials" - is there a kind of a checklist to use to go over a potential candidate?
I read about the frame subject (by the way - great information on your website), I read sometimes about the "book", which seems to be a nice coffe table book related to the specific car. What else do I have to be careful about?

Hermann Schaller
TRA999 - Old English White / Burgundy

macfly

March 24th 2009, 04:15

Everything you need to know about buying a Z8 is addressed here (http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/showpost.php?p=14559&postcount=2), and also hold on for the color you want, of the two you like I love the blue, it is easier to photograph than the red.

Here is a good looking blue car that you could likely pick up for very close to $70k - link (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=256252818&dealer_id=565190&car_year=2002&model=Z8&num_records=&bkms=1155062082271&lang=&start_year=1981&mod_bookmark_id=null&certified=&search_type=both&distance=0&make=BMW&min_price=100&address=90069&advanced=&end_year=2006&max_price=200000&cardist=2341&standard=false).

Sir Callaby

March 24th 2009, 14:35

Thanks for the check list.
The blue car at Gables Sportscars in Florida sold a while ago. It was a pending sale for several weeks and than they closed the deal about two/three weeks ago.
I think that the blue is the best color. It may be very fashionable from BMW to call the color Topas, but Topas is a much lighter blue as a gemstone (my wife has some of these). Still I like the color. My 1999 M-Roadster was in Estoril Blue and the 325CiC, 545i and the current 335i are all in dark blue with beige interior. I will defininately keep my eyes out there for a nice blue car.
We saw a red Z8 with Ohio license plate parked at a restaurant in Florida a few weeks ago. I left my business card in the open car with the message about my interest. Seeing the red color the first time in nature was not bad. It fits well to the car. Unfortunately most cars come in silver, which is a traditional German sportscar color (since Mercedes Benz Grand Prix Team in the early 50s decided to save weight by taking the paint of their race cars and drive them showing the bare aluminum body - it became the German Racing Color after the white color before WWII). I never could get too exited about it. All the Porsches, Mercedes SLs and Audis in silver were a too common picture on German Roads. If you go to a BMW dealership these days and look over the lot, you hardly see a color. All what they have is black, silver, grey and mixes of shades, but you don't see anymore a Boston Green or an Estoril Blue, which is a shame. I ordered the last couple of BMWs with my color request and got them built in Germany in the way I wanted. Unfortunately I missed the boat on the Z8 or my situation didn't allow me to look for them at the time they were new.
But never give up. I am tracking 28 Z8s on Ebay to lean to understand the market, four of which sold, one silver/black and three blue/beige. This shows that the blue is a color in demand. The comments on your website regarding the Alpina in Canada and the short time it needed to get sold were very interesting.
There seems to be quiet a number of Z8s in Florida. We have a place there and will use our next time (end of May) to visit some of the dealers to look to the cars. Perhaps we can make a deal. There are currently 6 Z8s in Florida on Ebay and one here in Georgia. The dealer here in Georgia has no clue about the car and clearly targets a different kind of clientel.
We will see - one of these days I will find the right car.
Thanks for all your support.

Hermann (the German) Schaller
TRA999 - Old English White / Burgundy

macfly

March 24th 2009, 15:11

I agree the red looks great to the eye, but it is not a color that digital cameras like, there is something called 'red gain' that happens, which flattens out the color and the contours of the car. I've figured out some work-arounds, but still I have never made a red car look as good in a photo as it does to the eye. Silver photographs best of all, which is why so many design mock-ups are shown in silver, and that is also why I've had three silver Z8's too.

I love my Topaz, but it is also harder to get the most out of the shape of the car in camera, I really wish it had come in a more metallic and slightly lighter blue to show off the lines of the car better, I always loved this blue...

Sir Callaby

March 24th 2009, 15:33

Yes - this is a great blue. While I was in college (a few years ago) I restored a Fiat 850 Sport Spider and painted it in a blue color used by Ford for their Capri and other models.
http://www.ford-capri.ch/pictures/wettbewerb/gemini-blau.jpg
The color looked like having different shades depending on the angle of the sun. Also at night it became a dark blue.
Yes - the good old days. Having a small, light 2-seater convertible with a 0.9 L engine and 52 DIN-hp and now I am looking for a slightly bigger 2-seater convertible with 5.0 L engine and 400 hp. Is there somewhere a theme in my life?

Hermann (the German) Schaller
TRA999 - Old English White / Burgundy

Sir Callaby

April 15th 2009, 13:33

Dear Andrew,

While still looking for the right car, a Z8 came up here in Atlanta.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-Z8-2002-BMW-Z8-ROADSTER-ORIGINAL-OWNER-HARDTOP_W0QQitemZ110376758579QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item110376758579&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1308

http://autos.yahoo.com/used-cars/bmw-z8-cars307791828?sortcol=price&sortdir=up&location=Roswell%2C+GA+30076&listingtype=used&model=z8&make=bmw&distance=50

It has less miles than I was looking for and the price is a little higher than I was looking for. But I will go and take a look. What are your thoughts about this car? Your knowledge about Z8s is huge and I really appreciate your comments.

best regards
Hermann

Scott Pettit

April 15th 2009, 22:50

Hermann,

There was no photo of the engine compartment and the write up states that it has participated in several CCA events. Were these casual, scenic drives to dinner; spirited twisties; or track days?

If those CCA events were driving events, and the Performance Package (front tower brace) has not been installed, I would be very concerned about the frame and the body panel alignment.

Be sure to check the shock towers to insure that they are not distorted.

Check the body panel alignment by looking at the seams and how they match and how they are spaced.

A friend has a black and crema and it is beautiful. Unfortunately, BMW uses a very soft paint so black shows every scratch and swirl mark that a car can show. If you love to detail your car (it is my therapy) then go for it.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Scott

Sir Callaby

April 16th 2009, 13:19

Thank you Scott,

I spent yesterday evening more than an hour to get a first impression of the car.
1. Yes the black color shows every swirl and they are present. Due to my experience with classic cars, I might be able to change that to a very nice glossy finish and protect it with the right wax coat.
2. The engine compartment looked very clean, but no perfprmance package present. The gaps along the hood are nicely even. They show the same size all the way from the window to the headlamps. The shock towers were looking okay but the bolts were not perfectly pointing in the same direction. They were not as bad pointing away from each other as in the pictures of the frame thread (as shown by Andrew on 1/12/2006). Therefore I think the addition of the performace package and the change to lighter and softer tires could do the trick.
3. I noticed a few other things:
a) the bottom of the drver seat seemed to be somewhat discolored and worn, this looked strange considering that the car has less than 10,000 miles.
Does anybody has some feedback on the tan leather seats?
b) the passenger seat back didn't move, which could be a problem in the switch or with a connnector or more expensive requiring a motor - did somebody experience a repair for something like this?

Otherwise the car looked good, which brings me to the question of the right value. Any comment of its perceived value would be appreciated. I need to figure out what I should offer for the car.

Thank you for all your advise.

macfly

April 16th 2009, 15:05

The PP will stabilize the area around the towers for sure, and the seats on these cars do tend to show quite some slop after not that many miles, but I've never heard of a passenger seat not moving, it may be as simple a fuse or a wire loose, but you can always tell them it is a $2500 job to remove the seat and replace the motor, so given these things I'd use them to your advantage in bargaining for the car. If you can get it at (or just below just below $90k) that would be very good price because the cost of the PP, tires and servicing the seat is likely to come in at around $5k or so. However even at their asking price I don't think you'd be doing badly for a 10k mile car, I think they have priced it well to sell in this market.

My only reservation is to be sure you aren't jumping at that something that has happened to arrive in front of you rather than waiting for the color that you really want. You have to be able to park your black car next to a blue or red Z8 is a few months time with no regret, if you can't be sure you can do that then I'd say wait for the color you want, there are always great cars coming up, and prices of everything across the nation are drifting down, so the market is moving in your favor.

Scott Pettit

April 16th 2009, 15:39

I agree with Andrew on the price of the possible repairs and how you should use that in negotiation.

Your description of the tower bolts concerns me. If they do not appear to be symmetrical, then there may be some tweaking of the frame. I would have this inspected.

As Andrew said, don't buy this just because it is there. Wait for the one that you truly want.

Scott

Sir Callaby

April 16th 2009, 16:08

Andrew and Scott,

Thanks so much for your comments! This Forum is amazing through your kind of knowledge and advise. Yes - the color subject is an emotional one. The car doesn't look bad in black, but I think it looks better in blue or red. Therefore I will use the ultimate judging - my wife. If she likes it - we will negotiate, if she doesn't like it - we will wait for another chance.
Once more thank you and I will let you know the outcome.

Scott Pettit

April 16th 2009, 16:12

My original color choice was black with red. That was 2 years ago. Then, as I got closer to buying one, I fell in love with silver and red. So I asked my wife for her opinion.

We own a silver and black.

I shouldn't have asked.

Scott

macfly

April 16th 2009, 20:12

Hey, there's nothing wrong with silver black!!! ;-)

Seriously, Hermann get the color you really, really want, there's nothing worse than being out with a group of other cars wishing that you'd got that other color - I know, I have to deal with that every time I go for a drive with Havenhurstkid!

macfly

April 16th 2009, 20:17

I know it is a little more than you were looking to spend, but this car is very local so I could pop by and take a look at it for you if you like - I think they asking $10k too much, but who knows - link (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=260314714&dealer_id=280294&car_year=2001&model=Z8&num_records=&bkms=1155062082271&lang=&start_year=1981&mod_bookmark_id=null&certified=&search_type=both&distance=0&make=BMW&min_price=100&address=90069&advanced=&end_year=2006&max_price=200000&cardist=17&standard=false)

This one (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=259080420&dealer_id=100021448&car_year=2001&bkms=1155062082271&num_records=&model=Z8&lang=&mod_bookmark_id=null&start_year=1981&certified=&search_type=both&distance=0&first_record=26&make=BMW&min_price=100&address=90069&advanced=&end_year=2006&pager.offset=25&max_price=200000&cardist=2307&standard=false) still seems to be for sale too - did you talk to them?

Sir Callaby

April 17th 2009, 15:24

I printed our forum conversation and gave it yesterday evening to my wife to read. Scott - your comment "I shouldn't have asked" was an instant success. I rarely heard Jeri laughing so loud. She reflected on your's and Andrews's comments and decided that you are right. We should look for the color we love. Jeri has seen so far only a silver/black and red/black in nature, while I was now able to add a black/tan to the list of impressions. we had a long list of cars painted in different shades of blue. One of my favorits was the Estoril Blue BMW M-Roadster, which was a special color only for the M-version. Since then we had 3 dark blue BMWs, one dark blue Lexus and one dark blue Triumph TR6, all of which with tan interior. If I would repaint our current Triumph, I would give it a kind of Gunmetal-Blue, which they used in the late 40s and early 50s. Therefore I guess we should try to be patient and look for a nice Topas Z8.
In this regard, Andrew - if you don't mind, we would highly appreciate your help and take you up on your suggestion to stop by Bill Smith BMW and to take a look to their Topas Z8. Yes- I agree with you that the car seems to be overprized, but perhaps they are slowly opening themselves for a more reasonable offer. The thing which wonders me is that next to no car offered has the performance package, even if it is offered from a BMW dealer. Shouldn't it be more easy for them to add this feature and give the customer some additional ease of mind? It would be some effort to fly to California, buy a car and drive it back, but it would be possible to do and it would be nice to meet you after all the forum communication.
Thank you for your support.

Scott Pettit

April 17th 2009, 16:31

When I bought my Z8, it did not have a perf pack but I knew what to look for and was happy with the cars condition and although I own a PP, I have not installed it. I rarely drive the car because I am (foolishly) keeping it as an investment so I keep putting off the installation. I should get around to it in the next few months.

If Andrew examines the car for you, I would trust his input to the point that I wouldn't worry about flying out but instead just have the car shipped. The dealer should be able to help you with that. Just be sure to use an enclosed truck.

Scott

Sir Callaby

April 17th 2009, 17:09

Thanks Scott,
The other blue car, which Andrew pointed out in Maryland was sold for $ 95K (as far as you can trust a dealer's statement) supposedly to somebody from California. It seems the use car dealers for luxury cars go to some kind of auctions and buy the cars there, add their nice profit, create a touching story and look for somebody to pay the price. Therefore I would prefer to buy from a BMW dealer, who knows the car from its customer or a private first owner like the car I looked at here in Atlanta. It will be interesting to see what Andrew will find out about the car at Bill Smith BMW.

Scott Pettit

April 17th 2009, 17:25

I found mine on eBay. It was listed by a doctor in Portland who I developed an email relationship with during the course of bidding. Outside of eBay, he told me that all of the other bids were from brokers and he shut the auction down when he and I agreed on a purchase price. The brokers were nickel and dimeing their bids so that they could resell the car.

I suggest that you contact the dealer and develop a relationship and let them know that you will have a third party come by to see the car and test drive it. Also, ask them for a shippers name and number.

I think that you are on the right track in buying from a BMW dealer however, be aware that the Z8 is such a unique car that MANY BMW dealers have never seen one so they are not up to speed on what the little idiosyncrasies of the car.

And FedEx does ship cars however it absolutely, positively won't be there by 10:30 tomorrow.

Scott

macfly

April 19th 2009, 07:58

I'm currently up in the central coast area meeting some friends, and will be driving back in past the dealership tomorrow, so I'll pop by and take some snaps of it.

Sir Callaby

April 19th 2009, 20:05

Thank you, that will be perfectly fine.
Looking forward to hear from you again.

macfly

April 20th 2009, 04:17

The overall condition is very, very clean, but there are a few areas of concern, however the dealer is keen to move the car, so I think these will just help you both arrive at a fair price.

There has been a body repair done to the driver's side door by BMW's own Aluminum Repair Center in Oxnard, but you can't tell at all, it looks perfect.

The soft top has almost certainly spent much of its life down, and it is pretty heavily creased and a bit dirty as you can see in the pix, but that wouldn't worry me as such. The strings are shot, but because it hasn't been used much that hasn't damaged the canvas at all. I'd suggest have them replace those and add the PP for you.

The cabin interior is a little dirty as you can see in the pix, again I wouldn't worry if it is a driving car, but it isn't garage queen clean.

The car has had two owners, spending its first 10,000 miles in Ohio, before coming to CA, where it has been for 2 years and the last almost 5k. You can see but the underneath shots the undercarriage has not seen salt, sea air or anything else bad, it look like the car really has been a sunny day special.

The guy to talk to about the car is Matt Smith, 818 346 3144

Scott Pettit

April 20th 2009, 04:27

If I had a tan top I'd leave it down all the time also.

It looks like all of the detailing needed for the inside and the top should not be a problem and I would use that AND the paint detailing as a price negotiation factor and NOT let them do it as a part of the sale.

I do love the exterior and interior color combo. Sharp!

Scott

Sir Callaby

April 20th 2009, 13:21

Thank you very much Andrew,

Great pictures, which show the details very well. Did you see that they had all the accessoires? Reading a lot in the forum, it seems that "the book" is one of the most interesting side factors. Also I read that BMW gave the Z8 owners a model car from Kyosho in the correct color combination. But that information was listed by the Germans and did not come up for the US. Did you get the correct die cast model? But that wouldn't be a deal breaker. It is pretty easy to get a model car. In fact I have already a Kyosho BMW Z8 1:18 in dark blue, unfortunately with black interior.
In any way I will contact Matt Smith and see how motivated they are.
Thank you very much again, I will you keep informed about the progress.
Best regards

FWK-Z8

April 20th 2009, 21:52

Especially a BMW Z car - the top will crease (as shown in Andrew's pics) and the canvas will pull out of the rear window molding - as the molding is a plasticized material, it will be nearly impossible to find an adhesive that works on it.

KenZ8

April 21st 2009, 01:47

It appears that the left front tire has more wear on the inside than the right front. Indicative of an alignment problem or have they just made more right turns than left turns?

macfly

April 21st 2009, 21:47

So did you get it?

Sir Callaby

April 21st 2009, 23:00

Dear Andrew,

I called Four times and left messages three times. The reception girl promissed that they would call back, but so far nothing. The third time I got hung up on after they girl told me that she was transfering me. Seems that they are not interested in selling the car.
Thanks for your efforts in any way, but I will stop here from my side. If they want to contact me in my office 770-326-2199, they may do so. But I will not call another time without hearing from them first. Seems to be weak BMW dealership.
best regards

Sir Callaby

April 21st 2009, 23:58

I should have sent the message earlier, because short after Matt Smith called me finally back. So I just started an e-mail communication to establish the base for the negotiation.

Sir Callaby

April 23rd 2009, 23:00

Matt Smith delegated the communication regarding the Topaz Blue BMW Z8 to an employee, who had obviously problems with writing in English. Still I was able to understand his messages. Their best price was at the end the same price, which they have currently on the internet. For that price they would do neither repairs to the softtop strings nor installing the performance package. The car didn't have a windbreaker and they had only one key. Naturally there was also no coffee table book. Compared to this offer for $ 106,995 with 15k miles, the Atlanta local offer for $ 95k and 10k miles for a complete car seemed more reasonable.
Andrew - I guess we have to delay a meeting in California, because I am not coming to get this car.
Okay - one down, many to go. I know that at the end I will have a Z8.

macfly

April 23rd 2009, 23:40

No worries, we know Matt Smith gave poor Mark Jordan just $72k for his car then turned round and sold it for $98k, so you can be sure they are into this car for under $85k. No point in struggling against them, but it is always worth looking at the cars in the colors you want, just stick your color choice, the right one will come up!

macfly

May 6th 2009, 17:58

Hermann, check it out, your colors and its already in GA.
Topaz in GA (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-Z8_W0QQitemZ260405629045QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item3ca1629075&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318#ht_500wt_1274)

Sir Callaby

May 6th 2009, 20:16

I am checking ebay, autotrader and other sites everyday, but you caucht this one before I saw it. It is very close to our home and I just spoke with the owner. Since we have today a tornado watch in effect and it is currently raining, I will schedule another time with him to see the car. I hope that this will work out.

Scott Pettit

May 6th 2009, 20:32

Tornado? Suck it up man and go see the car. When a dealership is slow, they are motivated and this looks like a dealership.

Scott

Sir Callaby

May 6th 2009, 21:27

No - its not a dealership. He is a private collector and drove the car from time to time in the North Georgia mountains. In this weather he is not getting it out of the garage.

Scott Pettit

May 6th 2009, 21:36

If he is a collector, he would have known that the car needs a PP installed unless he just owned it to drive it and did not care about the potential for damage. His description is worded as a dealer would but he did not list the VIN and other details in the on site form plus, opening bid is waaaaay low. Also, this collector has photographed the car in a very unappealing location.

This leaves a lot of questions.

Good luck,

Scott

macfly

May 7th 2009, 03:01

That's odd Ebay removed this car from it's listing, make sure to treat the seller with care, I have never seen this happen before, you should find out why they removed it.

Scott Pettit

May 7th 2009, 03:08

Hummm.......

As I was implying in my previous post......

Scott

Sir Callaby

May 7th 2009, 16:45

I spoke with the guy now twice. The first time he was easy talking about him buying the car from a friend. I refers to the Z8 as a nice little car. It seems he is more a Detroit Big Iron collector and got the Z8 without knowing too much about it. Yes - the car disappeared from ebay and I couldn't find it somewhere else, neither in the classified section of the local newspaper, nor on Craigslist. But I set up a meeting to see the car for tomorrow evening. - We will see.

Sir Callaby

May 8th 2009, 15:29

The car is back on ebay. With a new item number and more information (VIN-number). I will take a look to it tonight.

Sir Callaby

May 9th 2009, 15:41

I visited the owner of the BMW Z8 VIN 60728, who is a collector of American Muscle Cars (rare Hemis with high values). He bought the Z8 from a friend a few weeks ago, who needed money for the IRS. He is disappointed from BMW due to the high prices they charged him to fix the radio and glovebox latch. Also the BMW dealership offered to replace the fogged up headlight for $ 1,700.00. He likes how the cars drives, but he doesn't know anything about BMW and the Z8. He didn't know about the accident, but he tracked down the origianl owner in Austin, TX, who gave us plenty of information about the car. Using the check list from the BMW Z8 Club, I inspected the car as good as I could with the following results.

Shock Tower Deformation – no
Performance Package – no
OEM Tires – yes
Front Spoiler Damage – no
Engine Hood Underliner damage – no
Firewall Liner Damage – no
Wheels Damage – no
Engine Bay Liner Damage – no
Underneath Car Damage – no
Receipts for Regulary Fluid Flushes – only one available, car was serviced from BMW dealership two weeks ago.
Maintenance Documentation – no
VANOS Issue Fix – no documentation available
Radiator Dirt – no
Dealer Check MAF’s – not known
New Battery – not known
Color Combination – Topas/Cream with tan top
VIN Stickers – yes
Body Seams – very slightly imperfection on driver side between rear wheel arch and door
Dashboard Delamination – yes, bad
Soft Top – Strings okay, rear window good, overall okay
Hard Top Plastic Vent Covers – yes
Hard Top Tips Damage – no
Hard Top Mounting Caps – yes
Latches in Cockpit Work – yes
Origianl BMW Windshield – yes
Radio working – yes, new radio was installed two weeks ago
Heated Seats Work – yes
Seat Backs Correctly Attached – no, problem at passenger seat
Air Conditioning Working – yes
All Lights Working – yes
Unfogged Rearview Mirror – okay
Unfogged headlamps – right headlamp badly fogged
Keys – two main are there, no valet and emergency key
Cell Phone – no
OEM flashlight – yes, but doesn’t work
Navigation CD – no
Z8 Leather Key Case – no
Coffee Table Book – no, but original owner is looking for it
Glovebox Booklet – yes
First Aid Kit – yes
Windscreen – yes, but no bag
Softboot – yes, but no bag
Toolkit Complete – yes
Battery Trickle Charger – yes
Cup Holder – yes
Hardtop Cover – no
Hardtop Stand – yes, no box
Carfax Report – yes, accident in 2003 – replacement of left rear quarter panel at non-BMW-approved work shop
Additional a radar detector is installed behind the front grill and three lights were installed at the dashboard behind the steering wheels (drilling holes in the blue plastic).

The good news - the car drives well, no problems found during test drive (without the owner). The bad news - the car is in need for some serious TLC.
Overall the car was a disappointment, but the owner also realized that the $95,000 he had hoped for had no basis at all. Which brings me to the question of the year: Considering all the things bad or missing: What would be the fair market value for this somewhat beaten-up car? I feel sorry for the car and would like to bring it back in shape, but I don't want to throw my money away, either. Every comment is wellcomed.

hayvenhurstkid

May 9th 2009, 17:02

Personally, I wouldn't want this car at all. The fact it had a replacement quarter panel done at a non BMW approved repair facility would be enough for me right there to walk. But, with all of the other problems you have mentioned, this car would have to be a steal for me to even want it as a driver. Under $70,000, IMHO.

redz8

May 9th 2009, 18:08

I agree with hayvenhurstkid on all accounts. A Z8 with history is difficult to place a value on. There are lots of well loved cars out there with higher miles and no history that would make for a great driver.

1mean3

May 9th 2009, 18:13

I guess it all just depends on where you want to be in a car. You mentioned you wanted a driver so...

If it can be had at $65-70k and you could straighten it out for under 8k w/the PP and everything else, then it could be what your looking for. I looked almost daily for a car for over a year and never saw one sell for less than $75K. Most have sold for $100k plus.

I think the last year and a half has shown that there are really only (2) cars on the market; the collectors car with 2-6k miles, all the goodies, and no stories $100-120k (maybe more if it's a rare color)

Or the driver car with 15k miles plus with some story at $75-85K.

I bought the latter and am having a blast!
Though to be honest, I'm thinking about the perfect 2nd car to buy and put aside.

As Andrew has said.....be patient because in this market YOU WILL find your car.

good luck

macfly

May 10th 2009, 00:54

I'm with everyone else here, replacing the delaminated dash alone will be close to $5k, and if the Vanos needs doing that is $8k so based on ths lack of love you noted you could be looking at a lot of $$ to bring her back to show condition. At around $65-70k I'd say do it, but at much more than that you could well end up spending the same as you would buying a newer, cleaner lower milage car in showroom condition with all its goodies.

briandilley

May 10th 2009, 19:25

Well, it is good to see that my car list with member comments was actually used as a checkoff list to by a car. Looks like it is working pretty good. Hermann, if you know of any other tips that you may have discovered during your buying search, please share them with us on the FAQ sticky and we can update the list.

FWK-Z8

May 10th 2009, 19:57

The Z8 cell phone came in two protocols, CDMA and TDMA. The TDMA protocol is no longer supported by any US carrier. If you're getting a BMW cell phone, you'd better make sure it is a CDMA phone.

macfly

May 10th 2009, 20:03

Do you happen to know which models/service providers they were - I used to know, but now can't remember which they were and can't find the definitive info anywhere.

Scott Pettit

May 10th 2009, 22:50

I think 50 to 65K for a driver. This car has too much working against it.

As far as "investment goes" I am really beginning to believe that these cars are NOT going to appreciate as much as we are all hoping for and I have felt this way for a while now. I even brought this up with a fellow whose job it is to improve the value of a classic car and resell it. The production numbers are too high for a sizable return. 100k invested in real estate (depending on where) is going have a much greater return plus for the same amount of money, you can get a concours quality car with lower production numbers.

At any rate, if you want a driver...buy low, spend a little to clean it up, then drive like hell.

Scott

macfly

May 11th 2009, 03:46

In this market deflation is the name of the game, there is nothing that will really appreciate over the next five years, except maybe gold. It was a nice by-product of the hubris of the last few years that our cars were appreciating, but I don't think it is reason any of us bought a Z8. All the guys I drive with the most bought it because it was stunningly beautiful and an incredibly practical German engineered sports car. Sure, we may keep our miles down, but the Z8 an emotional sportscar purchase for most of us, not an investment. BTW, how many E Types did they make?

Scott Pettit

May 11th 2009, 04:02

Thousands. And they don't interest me. The cars that we talked about on the phone-MK, the Morgan and the MG (which appears to be sold) appeal to me as a fun driver / car show item-not an investment.

If a car is purchased as an investment, production numbers should be an important part of the equation.

That Morgan is getting closer to my garage by the minute. I just need to figure a way to hide it from my wife.

By the way, when I got home, there was a message that a 55 Chevy "that only needs a fuel tank" is available for 500 buckaroos. I guess that I am heading to Lodi for a look see. If I can get a friend, that does muscle car restoration, to let me park it at his place so that he and my son can tinker with it, I may grab it and try and flip it.

Scott

Sir Callaby

May 11th 2009, 15:08

Have you California guys noticed this one in the calssified of the Los Angeles Times?
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=21&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=ascending&sortfield=PRICE+ascending%2cPRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-%7cE-%7cM-_5_%7cD-_4787_%7cN-N%7cR-10000%7cI-1%2c7%7cP-PRICE+ascending%2cPRICE+descending%7cQ-ascending%7cZ-30076&aff=newspres&paId=310561120&recnum=1&leadExists=true
The price is unbelievable for an Alpina. Did the market crash last Friday and you can pick up cars for next to nothing?

macfly

May 11th 2009, 15:34

Usually cars at prices like this are scams of some kind, any dealer would pay $80k for this this car, so it just doesn't add up, if something looks too good to be true it usually is.

hayvenhurstkid

May 11th 2009, 15:57

So true. I remember these exact pictures from over a year ago on eBay for a car that was for sale back East. This is definately a scam!!!!

Scott Pettit

May 11th 2009, 16:55

Just for fun, I have sent an inquiry to the seller. Also, I have sent an email to Cars.com.

Scott

KenZ8

May 14th 2009, 01:30

What could they mean by "Fully refurbished factory buy back?" Could that be a lemon law buyback??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-Z8-has-both-tops_W0QQitemZ120419259440QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item1c098c1430&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A3|39%3A1|240%3A1318

Scott Pettit

May 14th 2009, 01:39

Factory Buy Backs occur when a lease ends and the dealer or manufacturer buys back the car. Lease returns are sometimes sold as Executive Cars. My Z3 was and it has been a dream (although I do spin my own wrenches).

When a car is deemed a lemon and is bought back.

Other reasons.

The dealer will be able to tell you the reason for the buy back and in most (I think) states, the title will state if the vehicle was declared a lemon.

Ask / listen / go with your gut feeling

Scott

FWK-Z8

May 16th 2009, 01:01

<TABLE class=tborder id=post16760 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><TABLE cellSpacing=6 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap></TD><TD width="100%"></TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_16760>Do you happen to know which models/service providers they were - I used to know, but now can't remember which they were and can't find the definitive info anywhere.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Andrew,

The CDMA phone is Model P8767, and says TRI-MODE on the sticker in the battery well. It is supported by Verizon, Sprint, PCS, Cingular and T-Mobile.

macfly

May 16th 2009, 23:56

Great info - thanks Fred, I'll pop it over in the right areas.

Hermann, when do we see the pix of your new ride?

Scott Pettit

May 17th 2009, 23:54

Here is an email that I received today:

"Greetings,

Using the information you provided we were able to locate the ad and have determined it not to be a legitimate listing. It has been removed as fraudulent. While we are very sorry that you encountered this unfortunate situation, we are grateful that you have taken the time to bring it to our attention.

If you see any other suspicious advertisements or have any other questions, please feel free to contact us.

Thank you for using Cars.com.

Christopher Almodovar
Cars.com Consumer Support"

Sir Callaby

May 18th 2009, 13:50

]On Sunday, 05/17/2009, grey clouds were hanging low over Georgia. It rained constantly. The atmosphere reflected well the sad mood of the 6 years owner of the BMW Z8 60078, when he saw it leaving his driveway for the last time. For me, the dark sky showed a silver lining, because I was driving the silver Z8 and looking over its long hood on the way to its new home – our garage. With the help of friends we transported the hardtop on a pickup truck and after only 25 minutes we unloaded it in our garage and backed the Z8 in also.
I dried the car off, but didn’t make any pictures, because the scenery in the garage is not so nice and it was still raining in Georgia.
The small photo displayed is from the previous owner and only 12 days old.
We got what we were looking for. A BMW Z8 with a little less than 32,000 miles, very complete (including coffee-table-book, all 4 keys and cell phone) and well maintained for a very reasonable price. I will have to take care of the strings in the soft-top and need to find a place to get the performance package installed. But first I need to get the emission check done, so that I can register the car.
The only things missing are the First Aid Kit and the bags for the windscreen and the soft boot. The cell phone doesn’t work as also the flash light.
Any ideas how to get the missing parts are welcome.
Is there a modern cell phone, which could be used with the connection in the Z8? I would like the hands free talking.
There will be a lot of questions come up, while I am trying to get the car back to perfect conditions.
For now, I would like to express my sincere thanks to all the members, who helped with information and advice.

Sir Callaby

May 18th 2009, 13:56

I tried to update my settings, too.

macfly

May 18th 2009, 15:23

Congratulations!! And a great color choice too, easy on the eye, and easy to live with! Your car is only the 78th US spec Z8 built, and it is great that you are just the second owner, and have all the main pieces that go with the car. You could try to get the missing bits through either your local BMW dealer, or failing that the Z8 Club.

hayvenhurstkid

May 18th 2009, 16:24

Welcome! As your car is a very early car built before the VANOS update, you might want to check and see if this very important update has been performed on your car by the previous owner. If not, you may want to check with your dealer about what it will cost to update it. I guarantee it will cost less than if the system fails while you are driving the car.

Sir Callaby

May 18th 2009, 16:52

Dear Andrew,

No - I am the third owner. I have all the information, including the window sticker. The car was always here in Georgia. The first owner had it for 3 1/2 years and put 21,000 miles on. The second bought it for fun and drove it only 10,000 miles in 6 years. I would have never hoped to find the right car for me so close to home, only 10.17 miles away. Going through all the documentation it is a somewhat amazing car. The manual nicely recommends 5W-40 and 5W-30 oils, while here in the forum it is stated that the only good oil is Castrol TWS 10-60. It is sad to see that even now the local BMW dealership things that 5W-30 is the right oil. There seems to be a communication problem at BMW (as it is with most large companies). The tail lights look great and were supposed to hold a lifetime, but the previous owner had to replace one and was in with about $ 1,000.00. To replace the neon bulbs with LEDs seems to be the right approach for the future. I would surely keep the old (broken) units and refit them with LEDs. Was the German club successful with their attempt on this? Where is the expiration date for the lights written on? I want to make sure that I buy some fresh lights, when it comes to that point.
I see frequently M5s driving around and there are plenty in the Atlanta area with 30K to 100K miles on. It seems that the Z8s are mostly kept in the garage. That is a shame. These cars were built for driving and even the the only 16 miles (in the rain) yesterday, were a pleasure to drive. The view over the long hood reminded me very strong to the view in an E-Type. Only the Z8 drives and sounds better. I expecting us to drive the car about 5K to 6K miles a year. That will add a lot of smiles to our lives.

macfly

May 18th 2009, 17:26

That is amazing that you found your car so close to home, and at such a great price too, it was obviously meant to be!:thumbsup:

I know that the club are looking at an LED solution, and I know they'll keep us updated as that progresses. The oil info situation is a bit of a mess, but the only oil to use is the Castrol TWS 10-60, regardless of what anyone else may say.

The cars are an absolute joy to drive, the more miles you do in it the more you'll love it!
:3gears::3gears::3gears:

redz8

May 18th 2009, 17:35

Congratulations. I look forward to more photos. What a lovely ending to your search story :)

Sir Callaby

May 18th 2009, 20:16

Hayvenhurstkid - help a little more to understand the VANOS issue, so that I know what I am looking for.
I read that there was an issue with the oil running out of the vanos unit after switching off the engine and therefore made some noise directly after starting the engine until the oil was pumped back up. I though I read that it was seen by BMW as a comfort issue (noise) but not a reliability issue.
Is that what you meant?
Please tell me what other issue exists and how it effects the car while driving.
My Z8 got the engine management software update in late 2007, which included updated control of the VANOS.

Scott Pettit

May 18th 2009, 22:21

Hermann,

You are correct with the Vanos noise at start up. It is a common issue with the M5 engine and BMW issued an alert to all of it's dealers. That is not a repair issue. It usually only occurs after the engine has sat for several days. HK may be referring to other issues so stay tuned.

Regarding the oil: Andrew is on the mark although some folks and dealers will tell you 60w which is harder to find than 10-60 Synthetic which can be had for about 10 bucks a qt (that's 0.94635295L to you) at your dealer.

As far as the phone goes, is it not powering up or is a connectivity issue?

Scott

hayvenhurstkid

May 19th 2009, 03:44

Cars built before December 2000 had the old style VANOS unit which is prone to failure causing extensive engine damage. Cars built from December 2000 on had the updated unit. All cars drain oil from the Vanos unit and can make noise when first starting a cold engine, but there is some design flaw in the early cars that caused the whole system to fail. If you search in the forum, I know there are discussions on the topic. The software update does nothing to address the problem.
I searched the forum and it looks like they install a Vanos pressure accumulator on the earlier cars. Dana Caldwell at Peter Pan BMW can expertly answer the question for you.

Scott Pettit

May 19th 2009, 03:48

I knew that you would elaborate. Thanks!

Scott

redz8

May 19th 2009, 07:45

You may also consider spending some time over at http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/ educating yourself on both the vanos as well as the carbon buildup issues.

A more specific link to vanos thread: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/54994-vanos-noise-what-do-about.html

briandilley

May 19th 2009, 12:21

I have a Z8 born 4/00 and my service records from BMW state that this recall was looked at and that there was no problem and therefore nothing was replaced. Is this an oversight? Is this still covered by a recall? Will BMW fix my VANOS after all this time?

Sir Callaby

May 19th 2009, 13:36

Thank you for all the information. I will investigate at the dealer all early records to see if they installed the pressure accumulator. I didn't notice any rattle noise after starting the engine.
The phone I found in the car seems to be dead. Considering the age I would think that the rechargable battery is beyond its life expectency. Before trying to fix an old phone (for original purpose) I would prefer to get a modern phone to hook up with the cable in the Z8 to use the handsfree speaking through the radio.
Any idea about a new phone fitting the connector or if the have an adapter at Motorola?

hayvenhurstkid

May 19th 2009, 16:03

While they may have looked at it and there was no problem found, at that time, the system can still fail with no warning. There was a recall and update for the cars affected. I am not sure at this time if BMW will do a goodwill repair or not. Again, Dana Caldwell at Peter Pan BMW is very well versed in this particular problem and he can explain it more fully to you. I know that with my previous Z8, AH60496, I specifically checked with Dana and he said the car was built in December of 2000 and therefore had the redesigned VANOS unit and not to worry. Obviously, the month/year of production is in the driver's door jamb on the compliance lable.

Sir Callaby

May 19th 2009, 18:27

Dear Marty,

Thank you for the further explaination. I am sure that my Z8 was built before the change. I have to go back to the BMW dealer. The service manager there went through all the service history of the car on screen. At one time he acted surprise how many recall activities were done at the car. Perhaps they did the right thing. I will find out.

Sir Callaby

June 10th 2009, 20:06

Today, I got the last missing parts from the BMW dealer. Now the car is complete. As most of you know, I bought the silver / black 2000 Z8 (60078) on 5/17/09 with 31775 miles on. It had most the parts. I bought the bags for the windscreen and tonneau cover, the protective cover for the rear window (when stored below the hardtop) and the first aid kit. I have verything else and a 1/18 model in the right color combination.
After some search, I contacted the BMW performance center in Spartanburg (about 2.5 hours from here) and will have them install the Performance Package. I would like to get the German style warning triangle for the trunk, too, and may contact some friends in Germany for that. Looking to all the specs of different tires it seems that the Bridgestones are very heavy with 32/36 lb. The lightest tires in the correct size I found at Conti with 23/26 lb for the Extreme Contact DW, which is even slightly better than the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2. Does anybody have experience with these tires?
I also got the strings for the soft top and will put them in in the next days. I hadn't the top down for the whole time. There is still plenty to do, but in a few weeks I should have a very presentable Z8. Then I can also make pictures and post them.
Any other advise?

1mean3

June 10th 2009, 20:15

Congrats!!!

At over 30k miles I would look into the MAF sensors. My car had 28K on it and replacing the MAF sensors made a hugh difference. A friend of mine just replaced them on a 2003 M5 a couple of days ago and commented that it made a big difference. His car had 22K on it.

I bought mine thru www.bimmerzone.com (http://www.bimmerzone.com) for a little over $340. This is a kit with (2) sensors and the security torx wrench made to install in the existing barrels. My local dealer wanted $450+ each plus installation.
:beerchug:
Just a thought.

Scott Pettit

June 11th 2009, 01:20

Hermann,

You say that the performance center is installing the PP? I didn't know that they did any work on cars. Are they doing it at the factory? What are they charging you (if you do not mind my asking)?

macfly

June 11th 2009, 02:30

If I am correct one of the three Aluminum Repair Centers is there, the others are Oxnard, CA and New Jersey.

Scott Pettit

June 11th 2009, 02:39

Aluminum repair I understand but a PP install????

They didn't do them to begin with and since they are not a repair center, they would not have the experience to install them. I have attended Z Homecoming at the factory and they always have a tech tent set up for free 20 minute repairs. They are incredible at what they do but everything that they do is because they did it during the buildout of the cars.

I personally would look at this very throughly before I let them touch my Z8 for anything other than the chassis and body panels.

Just MHO

Sir Callaby

June 12th 2009, 14:14

Scott and Andrew,

I tried to find a place with experience in installing the PP in the Atlanta area - without success. I called the Performance Center, because they are named one of the three places to perform frame work and they told me that they have installed several PP and can do that without any problem. They told me that it would take them about 4 hours and they charge $ 70.00 per hour. I have not scheduled it, yet. But I will do it soon and by that time I will get a clear cost estimate.
In my view, The PP is a part being attached to the frame. Therefore the frame specialists should be competent in installing them. Who would be better to guarantee work at a BMW than BMW themselves?

macfly

June 12th 2009, 15:37

Absolutely, I'd go there. Installing a PP requires drilling and then inserting bolts into the frame rails. Who else would you trust more than one of the three Aluminum Repair Centers to do that?

Scott Pettit

June 12th 2009, 15:38

Now I'd be really nervous. 4 hours? The shortest time frame that I was quoted was 8 hours and that was from 2 of the best dealerships on the west coast. Did the Perf. Center tell you that 2 front end alignments are required to do this task?

Just because they are one of BMW aluminum frame shops doesn't make they qualified to mount the PP when very precise measurements are necessary so as to not misalign the hood and fenders.

And 70 bucks per hour? That is half of what most dealers charge.

Sir Callaby

June 12th 2009, 16:13

I believe that it is a two men job, which would be in line with your quote of 8 hours for the project. I had asked if it can be done in one day, because I want to drive to Spartanburg early in the morning and get back in the evening. The guy told me that it will take 4 to 5 hours and yes - the alignment is part of the routine. At least he claimed that they had done this installation several times. The dealerships in the Atlanta area have no experience in doing it at all. I will ask some additional questions to get a better understanding of their work and capabilities before scheduling the surgery. I am also in contact with Franz-Armin Gollob in Munich, who knows the people in Spartanburg very well. I will see that I aslo get his input.

macfly

June 12th 2009, 18:33

Please do give Franz-Armin Gollob my regards next time you talk to him.

Scott, I'm not sure if you realize what the Aluminum Repair Center does? They are trained cut off the entire front and/or rear sections of aluminum framed cars, and replace them with brand new frame segments mig-welded to the undamaged half of the car to absolutely exacting measurements. If they can disassemble, cut apart, and reassemble an aluminum framed car to within a thousandths of an inch of factory specs, why would you think they aren't able to attach a simple strut brace correctly?

Scott Pettit

June 12th 2009, 22:47

First, the performance center is not the aluminum body shop. In fact, I doubt that they, themselves, have much experience repairing the cars themselves.

And, I doubt that his car is going to the aluminum shop as it is a body shop. I would assume that it is going to the factory for the work and as I said before, due to the precise needs of the install of the PP, I'd be concerned about who is doing the work.

Oh yea, I have been to 3 tech sessions at the plant and although they are good at what they do, each tech has a specialty, and I hope that Hermann finds the one or two who are experts.

Just my opinion.

macfly

June 13th 2009, 00:19

Scott, Spartanburg is where BMW NA train all the aluminum repair folks, I can't help it if you didn't see that facility, but I can promise you it is there!

(click thru the pages/pictures of this link to see it....)
http://kos-tom.com/media/gallery/bmw%20sc/index.html

Scott Pettit

June 13th 2009, 00:24

Either I need to learn to express myself better or you are missing my point.

So, never mind.

macfly

June 13th 2009, 03:02

I guess so! :-)

My understanding is that you are telling him not to have the guys at Spartanberg work on his car because they don't know what they're doing, while I'm saying it is actually the best place to have the work done because not only it is one of the three ARC's in the country, it is also the place all other BMW authorized aluminum repair shops go to get trained.

If I got that wrong sorry, but it seems pretty clear from what you said above??

Scott Pettit

June 13th 2009, 03:20

What I am saying is that the Performance Center is NOT at the plant. It is a track / school and not a repair facility and when I was there in August, the aluminum body shop was not there.

I agree that body shop guys are good at building frames and bodies and assembling them to a perfect fit. I am sure that the instructors are good at teaching others to work with aluminum. But how many of those guys have actually installed a PP and of the ones who have, how many have they done?

When I purchased my PP, BMWNA sent a Regional Service Manager and a Regional Service Tech Supervisor to meet with me and my dealerships Service Manager and the Master Tech / Shop Foreman. They all agreed that although the install is, for the most part, a straight forward job, none of them were comfortable about doing the work because if the unit is off by just a few MM, the body panels might ultimately misalign.

In a few cases, the hood was dinged because the PP was to high.

So, out of the guys at the body shop, what are the chances of getting the one who has the most experience at installing one. Remember, installing after market (and that is kinda what the PP is) is not their primary job.

Hopefully, that is a bit clearer.

By the way Andrew, guess where the Morgan's coolant goes when a top hose springs a leak? Hint: the hood has vents on the top and sides?

Wanna guess how my day has gone?

macfly

June 13th 2009, 03:36

Yikes, sorry to hear that - but it is exactly the kind of thing I needed to hear to remind me of the joys of reliable German motoring!! I know that I don't have the patience for machines that aren't reliable, and I have to keep reminding myself that as I wait for the urge to buy a classic to pass!! ;-)

Scott Pettit

June 13th 2009, 03:56

It's not that. The person who installed the top hose damaged it while they were installing it and should have let Stevie Wonder do the work. It literally looked like instead of a knife, they chewed the hose to trim it and then shoved a thermostat sender through the end of the hose to mount it.

Otherwise, the car is a joy.

By the way, the coolant ended up all over the windscreen, paint and engine. Fortunately I had just detailed the car for a show so the wax prevented the paint from being spotted by the coolant.

Sir Callaby

June 15th 2009, 16:50

Dear Friends,
I found out that the Performance Center has several departments.
- Driver training
- Car delivery
- Frame repair
From my calling into them, they seem not to be in the same office.

lanny

June 15th 2009, 18:50

The Performance Center is located about a mile from the factory. I live 7 miles from there. It is one of three Z8 repair shops in the US and they have forgot more about Z8's than most people remember. I have 2 Z8's and they adjusted the headlights on my 2001 red car after they were replaced due to fogging. They also replaced a headlight on my 800 mile 2003 while it was under warrenty.Both times the head lights line up exactly like they were when car was new. Practice makes perfect. These guys do unbeliveable work and you can eat off the floor in any part of the facitity. They mainained the fleet of Z8's for the driving school. They have some long term folks there that know these cars inside out. You won't go wrong letting these guys do anything to your car. They have installed PP in the past. You will be in good hands.

Lanny