Z8's Oil is Castrol TWS 10-60

[macfly]

BMW Z8 Club recommendation on CASTROL TWS 10W-60

In Europe several Z8 owners have had an engine failure because of both cooling problems AND problems because the wrong oil and additives were used.
You can easily see the difference in using BMW recommended oil on the attached picture of the VANOS units which ran about 60.000 miles. The unit on top got only CASTROL TWS 10W-60, which has a special recommendation from BMW AG, the unit below ran with BMW 5-30 oil.

At a BMW Z8 Club event in Munich the gentleman who designed the motor at BMW told the Club directly he would only recommend to use the CASTROL TWS 10W-60 in our motor.

There has been some confusion about this because BMW NA issued oil recommendations for the thinner oil 5-30 oil when the car was released. All these early 'official' BMW NA notices are should be disregarded, Castrol TWS 10-60 is the ONLY oil to put into our cars.

http://www.bmwz8.us/pdf/Z8Club_Oil_TWS.pdf

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[gutMD]

Thanks Andrew.
I now consider the discussion to be closed. Finally.

[Z8doc]

I agree as I use the Castrol TWS 10W-60 too but interesting question is... why have both the engine that used the TWS 10W-60 and the one that used Castrol 5W-30 been taken apart? I can not imagine doing that for just comparison purposes? I am curious why both were taken apart as the oil issue seems to be secondary as to what is actually being repaired (answer probably best for a separate thread though).

[macfly]

Nowack of Germany is the tuner who takes the S62 to 550hp by rebuilding and rebalancing the entire motor, so this was no doubt a motor that was apart for tuning. Dieter has one of his fully tuned motors in his car which he let me do a quick freeway blast in when we were at the Villa D'Este. I can report that the motor is really a charm, it spins up to 8,000rpm and is completely smooth and linear. Dieter has put many thousands of miles on it doing long distance tours and countless laps of the 'ring, proving that Nowack's work is totally reliable, and all on Castrol TWS 10W-60

[briandilley]

I use the 10 - 60 oil and that is what the BMW dealership put in my car last spring. The question I have is that I have a big yellow sticker on the fan housing that states I should be using 10 - 30 w. Why the change?

[macfly]

The engine was always meant to run on the Castrol TWS 10-60W according to the man who designed it. Some of the Z8 Club guys met with him at one of their events in Germany, and he confirmed that the TWS was the only oil to use.

Maybe BMW NA wanted to use the 10-30 is because of the free 4 years of servicing the offered - it is way cheaper to use the 10-30, and gives slightly better mileage?

[Z8Ros]

TWS 10w-60 is no longer available in Europe
It is replaced by castrol edge 10W-60 especially for BMW M engines.
Z8Ros
The Netherlands

[Juergen Wunderlich]

Dear Evert-Jan,

My information is totally different. The Castrol EDGE is different to the Castrol TWS and the TWS is still available at BMW dealerships in Europe. I purchased a box with 12 liters last week at my local dealer in Germany!

[jpklecker]

I just had my 2002 Z8 serviced by the dealer in Scottsdale AZ and found out they put 5W-30 oil in the car. Is there an offical document from BMW that specifically states that Castrol 10W-60 should be used? If so where can I get a copy of this to force the dealer to put the preferred oil in my car?

[Scott Pettit]

A service bulletin was issued some time back that the M5 engine is to use 60 wt. If your dealer used 5-30, they may have had a temperature reason for doing so but I would contact BMW NA to be sure.

Scott

[jpklecker]

Thanks! Any idea if it is possible to get a copy of that service bulletin?

[macfly]

You might not find it as a BMW AG or NA bulletin, once cars are out of production they don't update their data-banks. This oil information was released by the Z8 Club after the end of run, as shown above.

[thegunguy]

This is the big discussion that we got into last year. The Longlife-01 or LL 01 (as noted in the original post), actually specifies the use of 10w60 exclusively up to 02/2000. However, after that date 0w30, 0w40, 5w30, or 5w40 are approved (likely dependent upon region/temp). I have yet to ever see a TSB, etc that recommends 10w60 after 02/2000.

That being said, reports from the Z8 Club's technical contacts (including the lead engineer involved in the development of the S62) and several highly experienced S62 shops all state that 10w60 should be used regardless of production date, largely due to the design of the VANOS.

It is my personal opinion that the switch in 02/2000 was largely due to 1) cost cutting measure of the BMW "free" maintenance under the warranty period and 2) to address concerns form the "average" customer at the time where 10w60 was consumed by the engine over time (which is normal for the S62). As such exclusive use of 10w60 was substituted with cheaper weights that reduced consumption.

Due to the recommendation of the Z8 Club and that of respected European tuners, I will put nothing but Castrol TWS 10w60 in my car.

As all the cars are out of the standard warranty, you should be able to request 10w60 at your service center. If they won't accommodate your request, especially since you're the on paying for the oil, perhaps you should seek a new service center.

Also, if you want to do further research, you can easily find the bulletin via Google.

FYI - TWS is also still available in the US. However, unlike the photo in the OP, the bottle is gold (still 1L).

[jpklecker]

Thanks Andrew and thegunguy... I have searched and found a copy of the TSB regarding the type of oil for up to 03/2000 for the Z8. It indicates the oil they used on my car as well as the Castrol for the S62 engine from 03/2000 on. I will talk to my dealer regarding the oil--with this as support for what I want used in my car.

[ROBERTSZ]

I hate to aggravate this discussion but I just spoke with my service guy who was doing my annual low mileage oil service and had his manager do some research on this matter. He found that BMW is officially recommending the 5-30 oil for cars after March, 2000. So, I called another dealer and got the same answer. By the way, he offered to drain the oil and fill with the Castrol but now I am not sure. Is this issue mostly obsessive??

_________________________
Bob Adler

[Edythe Schlossstein]

When we were in Munich for the 10th anniversary of the car we got to talk to the designer of the S62 engine. I can't remember his name but I remember the conversation very clearly and he was quick to state that he recommended Castrol TWS 10-60. That is good enough for me. Erik

[thegunguy]

Bob,

You MUST insist on 10w60. In addition to lubrication, it provides pneumatic actuation of much of the VANOS system. The 5w30 recommendation came form BMW NA, not AG. It's hard to know why, but I suspect the reason was the cost of maintaining the cars under warranty back during the service period and the fact that many engines do consume some 10w60 normally, resulting in customer concerns. When it comes down to it, the people that created the engine, of whom several of us have met in person, including much coordination with the Z8 Club in Germany, state that Castrol TWS 10w60 is the ONLY oil to use to ensure maximum performance, reliability, and long life from the S62 engine.

One good test is whether or not the service center has to look up the specification. Service centers that do a lot of Z8 work will quote 10w60 immediately.

[Z8Mania]

Everything Rifle says above is correct. The 10W60 TWS Motorsport has a lot of extra goodies, its not just the thicker viscosity. Originally it cost over 24 per quart here in The States. Some owners, probably more M5 owners because they had their cars earlier and in greater numbers, complained and all of a sudden 5w30 became acceptable....

[ROBERTSZ]

Mr. Gun

Thanks for the clear response. I spoke with the service manager and he is more than happy to change my oil to the Castrol. It's too bad BMW can't be consistent on this issue but then we just have to look at how they stalled on the frame issue.

___________
Bob Adler

[harvey2]

There is some interesting discussion and possibly evidence on this thread to support the use of the Castrol TWS 10W-60 in our M-developed S62 engine:

http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=295656

[macfly]

Great info, thanks for sharing the link!

[Z8doc]

That thread is PACKED with a ridiculous amount of information!! That will take me as much time digesting that information as it took MACFLY to edit all of his Oregon 2010 pictures !!:eek::thumbsup::D

[redz8]

That thread is PACKED with a ridiculous amount of information!! That will take me as much time digesting that information as it took MACFLY to edit all of his Oregon 2010 pictures !!:eek::thumbsup::D

Let me paraphrase the entire thread: Use TWS 10-60 :D

[pcbmwgirl]

Iam going to change the oil on my wifes Z8. Iam going to buy Castrol TWS online. What amount should be added with a filter change.? note: car and books are up on a lift right now..too lazy to go check. Kevin

[thegunguy]

Iam going to change the oil on my wifes Z8. Iam going to buy Castrol TWS online. What amount should be added with a filter change.? note: car and books are up on a lift right now..too lazy to go check. Kevin

7.5L

Many Links Including Manual (http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/showthread.php?t=163)

[briandilley]

My local dealer said that 10-60 is for cars produced before March 2000 and that 5-30 is for all cars after that production date. That is according to their BMW documentation. The cars produced after March 2000 can use either or, but according to their BMW manuals the correct oil if 5-30 for everything after March 2000, so you have to ask for 10-60 or isn't it prudent to use the oil the car is used to at that point?

[Z8Mania]

This is partially correct. What happened is the early M5s also required 10w60. People complained that it was so expensive- I think it was like $24/ quart of oil. So they modified the motor to work with 5w30 but in truth the 10w60 is a far superior oil, not just the weighting, because if it was just the weight, the 5w30 would probably be ok for most people who are not punishing the car and also if you live in a cooler environment, but the 10w60 has a lot of extra additives that make it do its job a lot better, one of the reasons for its being more expensive. I think if you are keeping this car long term, you should always insist on Castrol TWS 10W60 motorsport oil. My shop accidentally put in 5w30 and I made them drain it and refill it with 10w60.

[briandilley]

Sounds good, putting info from different dealerships, it is hard to get the raw facts. I agree, I only use 10w60 and they put 5w30 in the car and I had them drain it out and put the 10w60 in it. The 7.5 quarts costs $52 bucks, so it looks like the $24 a quart has come way down.

[Z8Mania]

Yeah- I remember when I took my early build 2000 M5 in for an oil change and it was something nuts- I think the motor took more than 7.5 quarts- no matter it was like $200 and I said: WHOA! and my service advisor said that oil is basically the ///M of motor oil. But I did it because I wanted to do the right thing.

[harvey2]

I bought the Castrol TWS10-60 at Bavarian Auto. I see they have it listed for $12.95 a litre. That beats the dealer price up here in Canada by quite a few dollars.