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Thread: Eisenmann vs Meisterschaft

  1. #1
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    Eisenmann vs Meisterschaft

    So reading the posts on both, it seems that the Eisenmann is significantly quieter at low revs and throttle. Anyone here heard both and can verify? I vastly prefer the Ferrari sound to the American V8 sound, so I think I would prefer the Meisterschaft, but I need something that is (relatively) quiet when puttering around in town.

  2. #2
    The Meisterschaft is only really quiet when you are cruising on constant throttle. Pulling away from the lights at a calm speed you still sound like a hooligan in a hopped up Mustang! However having had, and been around both pipes, there is no way I'd choose the Eisenmann over the Meisterschaft, it is so much more fun to drive in every way!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  3. #3
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    any chance you're in LA in late Dec? I'd love to hear a sample.

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    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    If I didn't already have the Eisenmanns on my car, I'd get the Meisterschafts in a heartbeat, but they're by no means tame. The Meisterschafts sound like you're smashing the throttle to the floor when you're just pulling away at a calm pace. On run-over, they pop and crackle like a truckload of Rice-Crispies. They really are deliciously fun.

    I wouldn't classify either as anything but a European V8 sound.

    If you want a better sound than stock, but don't want to go nuts, get the Eisenmanns. If you want a childish grin on your face every second of the drive, get the Meisterschafts.
    thegunguy

  5. #5
    Yes, I'll be here during the holidays, its my favorite time of year in LA, but there are a couple of pretty god sound clips of them in this thread.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  6. #6
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    The problem with the clips is that all the ones I have seen are made with video cameras that have auto adjusted mic volume--so you can't really get a sense for loudness.

    As audio is one of my other hobbies, I plan on making some controlled recordings so one can compare stock to whichever option I do eventually get.

  7. #7
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    I have the Eisenmanns on my car, but would like to get the Meisterschafts. And since the Eisenmanns are no longer available, you may want to buy mine. No rush, but I would like to do it in the next 6 mo. or so.

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    The Supersprints are quite nice, nice quiet rumble around town, but sounds very "american" when opened up. I am running with cats but no resonators, just straight test pipes.I will post if I borrow a friends video camera.
    Joshb 2002 silver/ red/ black

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshB View Post
    The Supersprints are quite nice, nice quiet rumble around town, but sounds very "american" when opened up. I am running with cats but no resonators, just straight test pipes.I will post if I borrow a friends video camera.
    Joshb 2002 silver/ red/ black
    I was wondering about those too. Are you running the Supersprint cats? Any problems with the emissions?

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    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
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    Yes running with their cats, no problems with emmisions as we don't test in NY like California, but I doubt if there would be a problem. I will ask the tuner who installed them.
    JoshB
    2002 silver/red/black

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshB View Post
    I will ask the tuner who installed them.
    I would very much appreciate if you could. I read on the M5 forum that one person was having lots of trouble with the engine warning light coming on. If you could ask if there was any ECU reprogramming involved, would greatly appreciate it.

    regards, John

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    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
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    I am running Dinan stage 5 software due to the mods affecting airflow (Dinan low restriction air boxes,plus Hamann headers) the only fault code that came up was for a failing O2 sensor which was replaced at that time. Expensive suckers to do four of them!
    Joshb
    2002 silver /red/black

  13. #13
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    the problem this guy was having was with the O2 sensors. The fix was to disable the post cat sensors in the ecu--two other guys posted that they had to do the same.

    Claus on this board also had similar problems with the Hamann cats (made by supersprint, I believe):

    http://www.bmwz8.us/htmlL/chat_frame.htm

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    Norcal, Are your Eisenmanns the race version?

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    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Yes, and it is very nice, not too loud at all.

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    Norcal, we have been thinking about putting the Eisenmanns on our car but would not make the move until the summer, so if you still have them then we'll have to get together. Do you think removing the resonators has any value? Erik

  17. #17
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Like NorCal, I'd also like to make the switch. So, my Eisenmanns are available if anyone would like them. Also no rush.
    thegunguy

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    Eisenmann vs Meisterschaft

    Erik, If your able to purchase some used Eisenmann at a reduced price I believe you will be pleased. I think I was one of the first to have the Eisenmann put on and I am totally pleased but there is a but. I have not had the opportunity to hear the Meisterschaft.
    Pandaman

  19. #19
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edythe Schlossstein View Post
    Norcal, we have been thinking about putting the Eisenmanns on our car but would not make the move until the summer, so if you still have them then we'll have to get together. Do you think removing the resonators has any value? Erik
    Sounds like a plan

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    We will stay in touch. Erik

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    I too have the Meistershafts Race edition on my '02 Z8 and love it. They have changed the character of the car significantly. It sounds like a European Muscle car. All my friends say it sounds fantastic. Not too loud around the city, but you can definitley hear it.
    After lots of years and lots of cars I have discovered that I can no longer own a car without these aural delights. Buy the Meistershafts and don't look back. You will love them.

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    Does anyone know the minimum volume required to get a group buy of the MS race exhausts? I would be interested in a set.

  23. #23
    You should call the importer, I think they are called GT Haus, and see what they say.
    Andrew Macpherson

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    I have no experience coordinating forum based group buys but have placed an inquiry into GT Haus and will report back my findings. Stay tuned...

  25. #25
    Its easy, just ask them how many units they'd want to sell to give you a group discount rate, then post a thread here and see if you can get that many on board. Be aware we had a group buy from there a year ago, so quite a lot of those who might have wanted this already have it, so keep the number of units as low as you can, and negotiate the best price you can to be sure you get the most sales. Good luck!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  26. #26
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Try to get the previous group buy price!

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    wasn't on the board last year and just ran a site search and couldn't find details on that group buy. Could someone kindly post the key numbers and/or PM them to me? Thx.

  28. #28
    I think we had 8 units at $1750 each, but the deal was actually arranged by Grease Monkey who sadly isn't on the boards as much these days. Also the dollar/EU exchange may not have been as bad when we did it.
    Andrew Macpherson

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    I really have tried to stay stock but if a sweet deal for the Meistershaft race editions is announced, I may take the plunge...

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    Update: I've now traded emails w/ GT Haus and we're plannig to speak early next week.

  31. #31
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Cool. Thank you. So am I to assume you will get those? (not eisenmans). Great to meet you and your son the other day. Please keep us posted.

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    I was able to work something out with Meistershaft distributor. I will post the info in the For Sale, Wanted and Group Buys forum. Please check it out there.

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    Gents,

    Please see the group buy forum for an update on this group buy that expires in about 1 week. A short video of the 'before and after" can be found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIDTNO3BQVY

  34. #34
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Lupin's Avatar
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    great video to give an idea...I noticed much more smoke from the meistershaft compared with the regular exhaust,is just because of the weather or what?
    Luigi
    2001 Z8 Black-Red

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    Sport Button On - DSC Off Lupin's Avatar
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    does anybody know , who sell the Meistershaft in Europe? possibly in Switzerland ?
    Luigi
    2001 Z8 Black-Red

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    Love mine

    Quote Originally Posted by Edythe Schlossstein View Post
    Norcal, we have been thinking about putting the Eisenmanns on our car but would not make the move until the summer, so if you still have them then we'll have to get together. Do you think removing the resonators has any value? Erik
    I had lunch with Henrik Fisker in April 2001. He said the only thing he thought the car lacked at the time was a good race exhaust, as the car was maxed out for German sound level of 73Db. When he later drove my car with the Eisenmann Race Exhaust, he said it was exactly how he thought the car should sound. I think so too.

    I'll try to bring it to Oregon in August and we can wake up the neighbors.

    Bob

  37. #37
    Bob, it would be fantastic to have you along in August, make sure you book your hotels asap, as several of them are almost full already. Also will you want you car transported up, as I will need to know how many spots we want on the transporter.
    Andrew Macpherson

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    I'll work on the reservations and if it all works out, yes I'll want to share the transport too.

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    Wonderful, keep me posted.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  40. #40
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    hi friends, i am planning to install a meisterschaft, are there any others around so we can setup a group buy again?

  41. #41
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    The difficulty in a group buy is making it work by geographical market. It seems like you're in Europe. The previous group was based out of the US, and the deal was done with the North American supplier of Meisterschaft. So, I'm not sure how this would map out.

    That being said, I'd love to have the Z8 spec Meisterschafts, but I'm not sure I trust the company or their supply chain. Meisterschaft itself may be a fine supplier, but the NA group really mucked up the previous group buy in supplying a lesser product than was specified, which sounds pretty dull compared to the Z8 Spec or the Eisenmanns in my opinion. To my knowledge, only one of the group has had the proper spec exhaust replaced after a year wait. There's just something that's not right with that group from a customer service perspective.

    I'd support anyone wanting to take the lead to form a group, but it's very much a case of "buyer beware". You may not get what you're expecting.
    thegunguy

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    That does not sound good..... I am indeed in Europe (Netherlands) and have a personal contact who has been working on senior level for Brabus (the Mercedes-Benz tuner) and has direct contacts through his professional network in the world of tuning.

    If we have a group of a certain size I can ask him to arrange directly with Meisterschaft. Shipping from here to the US with UPS or FedEx should not be that difficult?

  43. #43
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    If you do anything, make absolutely sure that it's the "Z8 Forum Spec". The neutered version that was delivered to the group buy is pretty tame except at startup, when the system is cold. It is better at 4k and beyond, but it's no where near as good as the Z8 Forum Spec. It's a 3 vs. a 10.
    thegunguy

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    Thanks, and how does the 'Z8 Forum Spec' relates to the normal 'GT Racing Performance Exhaust'?

    that one can be heard here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIDTN...eature=related

  45. #45
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    See my previous post. That video is of a cold motor. It's much quieter when warm, and it's way less than the Eisenmann Race or the Z8 Spec Meisterschaft.
    thegunguy

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    ok clear and lets see if there are any others interested

  47. #47
    I'd suggest you start a new thread with a poll, but find out what kind of price at what quantity you can do.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  48. #48
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    It's my understanding that the Meisterschaft brand is owned by the US company. While they are poor in responding, they should come through if you are patient. Be sure to spec the "GT-Z8 spec", as it is WAY louder, and tons of fun! The regular GTs are a disappointment to me vs the Eisenmanns I replaced.

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by jwgerritsen View Post
    ok clear and lets see if there are any others interested
    I'm interested, depending on what kind of deal we get, but only if its the "Z8 Spec" that Andrew has.
    C.A. Cardenas (AKA Dan)2003 (last one?) Z8 - Hellrot / Sport Rot Original Owner - Munich Tourist Delivery-- Others --1988 M6 - 32K mi. - Original Owner1989 DINAN 750iL - 73K mi. - Original Owner1998 M3 - 63K mi. - Original Owner2015 X5 (F15) Diesel - Daily Driver2008 Porsche Turbo Cab - 9K mi. (Mezger motor/6-sp. manual)

  50. #50
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    I am happy with my Eisenmann's.

    Jay in Southeast Florida
    Z8 #436
    License Plate: MYBMW Z8
    Eisenmann Mufflers
    Dinan Performance Software

  51. #51
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Yes, the Eisenmanns are great.... I just needed a bit more "throat".

  52. #52
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    I am very happy with the sound of the Eisenmann as well. A friend of mine who is from Germany remarked that the Z8 sounds a bit more "American" with the Eisenmann. My reply: "well, this car is an American Z8!" I can hear a bit of that American V8 sound but its much more refined. Im sure there are other choices that are really good but Im so happy with what I have I choose to leave it alone and enjoy. Btw- I still get people sticking their hands out of their rolled down car windows giving me a big thumbsup with the Z8.

  53. #53
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    You've got that right J. Multiple times per day, It's crazy.

  54. #54
    Sport Button On - DSC Off jim's Avatar
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    I like loud, & bought the "street" Eisenmanns, should a bought the "race'. Streets are too quiet for my liking.
    Jim

  55. #55
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Try strait pipes from the cats back and let us know. Should be cheap and easy to try.

  56. #56
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    Yes... the race type are the only ones to buy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jim View Post
    I like loud, & bought the "street" Eisenmanns, should a bought the "race'. Streets are too quiet for my liking.
    Jim
    Contact Eisenmann and see if you have a customer satisfaction return. Seems that I know of people who did what you have done and got them exchanged.

    I have the Race Eisenmanns and love them.
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  57. #57
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    I am just about to buy ther Meisterschaft GT Z8 Spec. Are there still concerns with GTHaus's customer service or have they fixed the problems?

    I really hope these arent too loud for city use (people have loud cars here in Dubai anyway)

    Thanks for all the helpful posts.

    Sean
    2002 Black/Black

  58. #58
    They are quite loud, but if you're very light on the gas they can be almost civilized, however on a rev matching downshift you'll wake up the entire neighborhood!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  59. #59
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    This past spring, Norcal and I caravanned from our homes to the CA central coast. I was in front most of the way, and I could almost always hear his car behind me on backroads, even with the top up on the car.

    The Z8 spec is childishly fun, but if you have any concerns of it being too loud, I can almost guarantee that they will be. They are VERY loud under power or when cold. You will never go unnoticed.

    On customer service, I only know of the group buy that was done through the board a year or two back. The group was expecting the Z8 spec, but everyone received a lesser version that was quite tame. To my knowledge, only one member of the group received a replacement exhaust from GTHaus after many months of back and forth. So, from that perspective, I have a hard time supporting them. They exhaust is MAD fun if you're cool will the full-time hooligan sound, but the company gives me pause.

    I just looked at GTHaus' site, and I'm pretty sure that they just service the USA (although they have a fax number for international orders). Have you checked to see if there's an Meisterschaft vendor that services Dubai or at least close (Europe)?
    thegunguy

  60. #60
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    If you like seriously throaty sound, you'll be fine. Yes it's load, but as stated, if you stay out of the hard throttle, it can be very civilized, with little notice at cruising speed (easy to hold a conversation, even with the top down) and no drone. As for GT Haus, they have been a problem to deal with, it took almost a year for them to replace my quiet version with the loud ones i ordered. Just know it will be "a Process". I'm pretty sure "Meisterschaft" is their own brand... a nice fictitious German name for a system made in Korea for an American company!

  61. #61
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    Thanks guys. I guess I have to try and decide between the GT Z8 spec (louder) and the regular GT spec (not as loud).

    GT Haus said that they are the worldwide dealer. I didnt see anyone one close by Dubai and frankly Dubai has xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx customer service. I am waiting for some additional information from GT Haus on shiping costs etc, but they have been responsive so far (pre-sale). I'll guess I'll have to take a punt on their customer service, but I'll put it on record with them that I have heard that they arent the best and get them to commit to being better (a trick I learned from some lawyer buddies).

    I think you are right about the various nationalities involved.

    After I get set up I'll try to send a sound file of the new pipes

    Cheers
    2002 Black/Black

  62. #62
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Don't bother with the quieter version. They are better than stock, but perhaps not worth the trouble and expense. Why don't you try some of the ideas that have been kicked around, like removing the resonators or the whole mufflers? Should be cheap, and fun to try.

  63. #63
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Please let us know how it goes. It'd be great to have some positive feedback on GTHaus to start to mend the bad.

    I really need to test the straight pipe approach. It's a fairly "easy" test for anyone that already has aftermarket exhaust, but if you're still in OE config, it means cutting.
    thegunguy

  64. #64
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Really? can't you unbolt from the back of the cat, and have a replacement strait pipe made?

  65. #65
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    No, you can't unbolt from the back of the cat. Everything behind the manifold is one welded piece - the cats, all 4 O2 sensors, resonators, and "muffler". The only breaks are at the block and at the 4 to 2 Y where the system begins to turn to the rear of the car.

    So, testing on a "stock" car would mean you're just running straight from the manifold with two pipes per side. That's why I was suggesting that an Eisenmann or Meisterschaft car would be the easiest test since the aftermarket cans are flanged on after the pipe is cut. This would keep everything in place for emissions but with no "mufflers". This is also how I would suggest a emissions "legal" straight pipe - basically, just remove the muffler.
    thegunguy

  66. #66
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    ....and leave the resonators (as discussed in the other post).

  67. #67
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I'm going to try it in the next few weeks. I get the feeling that the Z8 Spec Meisterschaft is really little more than an empty can with VERY little baffling. Based on where my pipes are cut, I think I would need little more than 24" of flanged pipe to extend to the tips, basically accomplishing the same thing. That's one of the nice features of the Z8 - you just need to get the raw pipe close to the finished tips that are integrated with the bumper cover.

    Well...and fabricating some hangers.
    thegunguy

  68. #68
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Cool! Let's get together for a side-by-side after TG.

  69. #69
    Black/Black Sean's Avatar
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    Here is what I had back from GT Haus. Lets see how they do on this sale

    Cheers

    Sean


    SEAN: The guys on the Z8 forum mentioned that there were some customer service issues when they bought from you. Have these all been resolved? I am not keen to buy into any problems and would like to know that any problems at GTHaus are in the past.


    JERRY: As for problems in the past, Executive and Upper Level Management such as myself have made the necessary changes to ensure that all aspects of our company, from Engineering to Production to Sales/ Distribution have all improved vastly in the last 12 months. Any misgivings in the past are due to inconsistencies in training and ideals in services to you and the interested public. We feel that the changes made are noticeable and palpable. You can feel it.

    Jerry S, Sales and General Manager
    GTHaus Meisterschaft Premium Exhaust Systems
    Tel: (630) 787-1600
    [ www.gthaus.com ]
    2002 Black/Black

  70. #70
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Just keep them on a short leash! And prepare to be patient.

  71. #71
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    Well he has a good name. So he's got that going for him

  72. #72
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Lovely non-answer.
    thegunguy

  73. #73
    Yes, it was a seriously brilliant piece of gobbledygook!
    Andrew Macpherson

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    i was part of that group buy a few years ago for the meisterschaft z8 spec. i finally got around to installing mine last week, then found your message here after the install. i called jerry at GTHaus last week to discuss this and he said that this group order happened before he came to the company and he appeared unaware that there was a problem with the shipment. is this right? he said that he could come up with some options but they sounded like they would come at my expense. wondering what everyone else has done that was part of this group order...

  75. #75
    Everyone had problems with them, because they didn't supply what was ordered. A few of us got the pipes changed after a huge amount of back & forth, others gave up, or sold them on, nobody came out of it feeling warm & fuzzy about it.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

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