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Thread: Alpine iDA-X305

  1. #1
    Freedom Ouray's Avatar
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    Alpine iDA-X305

    I had purchased a new Alpine head unit over a year ago and just finally got around to getting it installed today. I cannot believe how good the stock spearkers sound with the new head, particularly when hooked up to my ipod. Between the new unit and having the car detailed while there it feels like a totally new car. The silver paint looks like it just came off of the show room floor. Probably does not hurt that the car has never been in the rain or parked outside for any period of time.

  2. #2
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I've commented several times on the increase in range and clarity when swapping to the older version of your Alpine. It's a big upgrade for only a few hundred dollars.

    I've recently thought of getting the 305s as it has some nice little tweaks over my model which is three years old.
    thegunguy

  3. #3
    Sport Button On jwgerritsen's Avatar
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    hi guys i just read your post, how difficult is it to replace the standard BMW radio with a Alpine head unit?

    thanks!

  4. #4
    Freedom Ouray's Avatar
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    If you are technically inclined the hardest part is finding the correct harness adapter to fit the existing BMW harness to the unit. I wound up paying to have it connected and it was only a hours worth of labor. I had them run a iPod/iPhone wire to the armrest where the original phone is contained. Very easy for a skilled person to do. No damage to the car in any way, and the radio compartment door closes very easily over the new unit. I did not get the available blue tooth phone adapter put in as being a convertable I did not see the logic in having one.

  5. #5
    Sport Button On jwgerritsen's Avatar
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    thanks, do you think if i would go to a specialized Alpine dealer that they could take care of all steps and would have the correct harness adapter? Indeed i would not opt for it if it would bring damage to the car in anyway

  6. #6
    Freedom Ouray's Avatar
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    Any authorized dealer should be able to do it. I stopped by the place I went to in advance to make sure that they had the harness in stock so that I would not have to leave the car while they waited for one to come in. They did have it in stock so the only thing I had to wait for was a day when it was not supposed to rain to drop it off. There have not been too many of those in the NE this spring.

  7. #7
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    If you get the radio from a place like Crutcfield, they supply the connector, and it's literally a snap, like connecting a printer to a computer. The more difficult part is running any accessory cables, iPod/iPhone, etc. I have mine in the phone compartment behind the shifter, which requires some dash work.

    It's all fairly easy, but if you're not comfortable with it, any radio shop will do. Other than protecting the painted plastic trim, there's nothing special about installing a new head unit in the Z8.
    thegunguy

  8. #8
    Z8Mania
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    What do you fellas do for Nav? Thats my only gripe. Also does this unit do sat radio? What you are hearing is likely the poor quality of the stock amp. If you really want to improve the sound change out the speakers. You don't have to go crazy- most stock speakers are terrible and ours have the added benefit of being oldish.

    I bet the reason that your sparkles is not really due to rain, but its probably due to being out of the sunlight for prolonged periods of time.

    What shop do you go to?

  9. #9
    Freedom Ouray's Avatar
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    I only drive local so NAV is not an issue, but that is what an iPhone or Garman is for! It does have the capacity to add Satelite radio but I did not and just opted to use my iPhone.

  10. #10
    Z8Mania
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    I dont like the cluttered look of the Garmin and I have yet to see a navi program on the iPhone that doesnt have some issue that I don't like (Im picky). I prefer an integrated nav system. Most of my Z8 driving is local as well but I really like having the backup of the navi. To me this is a big omission by Alpine, they could have done a basic navi system, or even made it an optional module. For now Im sticking with the stock system for that reason. One day when it stops working Ill have to consider something else. Does the Alpine work with the radio door?

  11. #11
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I'm fine with the stock speakers. The change for me was to get highly integrated iPod/iPhone functionality, which the Alpine does better than anything other unit out there. So, the better sound was just an added bonus. However, it definitely makes the sound system more usable with the top down at highway speeds. I'm sure I'll need to change out the speakers at some point as the paper drivers deteriorate, but it's fine for now.

    My drives are either local or a destination/route that I've researched well in advance. So, a dedicated system would be overkill, and frankly there is simply not a system that isn't a compromise on the clean interior design. It's just not a priority for me.

    If I ever need an ad hoc nav solution, I use Navigon on the iPhone. The iPhone and Navigon work beautifully with turn-by-turn and voice through the iPod interface on the Alpine. Since the voice prompts work so well, I normally just leave the phone in the rear compartment and listen to the voice directions. If I do need to view a map, the cable stretches from the phone compartment, and I have a cup-holder mount for the iPhone. I haven't tried it yet, due mostly to the dork factor, but Navigon is a universal app that will also work with a GPS enabled iPad.

    The great thing about a mobile device based solution is the continual updates. When iOS 3 and the 3GS first made turn-by-turn and nav apps possible, the initial offerings were pretty weak. However, they've advanced very quickly, easily offering features and seamless user interaction that are missing from dedicated solutions that require expensive DVD updates, etc. What I'm really interested in is the future of the embedded apps from the OS developers (Apple, Google, etc.). Google is doing amazing things with their recent conversion to vector-based maps (versus the previous tiles). This allows for amazing speed and a MUCH smaller DB. Apple's been pretty quite on maps/nav of late, but my sources suggest that the calm is only on the surface, and they have some nice things in store for the future. The geo data plus all the internet info (traffic, business, social, etc.) is finally making navs true guides instead of merely fancy moving maps.
    thegunguy

  12. #12
    Freedom Ouray's Avatar
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    The Alpine works perfectly with the radio door. No issue what so ever.

  13. #13
    top down in seattle bvhbmw's Avatar
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    Here's my Alpine head unit and ipod connector. Sounds great. I paid a local shop to install both. Labor was about 4 hours. The door closes fine.

    By the way, the 2 LEDs and one neon lamp are for the K40 radar/laser detector. The left LED is for the front, right for rear. Neon lamp glows orange for highway, green for city.
       
    2002 Silver/Black
    #61319
    No mods (except for new Alpine stereo)
    Seattle, WA

  14. #14
    Z8Mania
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    Lovely install and thank you for the info and pictures. I don't seem to remember our gear shift having the Z8 logo on it- is that another personal touch? If so I really like it!

    OK fellas, so I have checked out the navigon app- I tried it out so long ago- I forgot I actually paid for it a long time ago- when I went to give it a try now it reminded me- you already bought this. Hey, its like finding $44 in your pocket . I like to see the arrows so I think the cleanest thing will be to figure out a way to integrate a mount into the cup holder. I like keeping a small container of water with me so I will see if we can build something that can function as both cup holder and also iphone mount. It shouldn't be too difficult given that the mount is already there. You all talked me into it. I will do this when I do the dinan caster plates which I will be doing shortly.

  15. #15
    top down in seattle bvhbmw's Avatar
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    The shift knob was a BMW part that I bought because the prior owner was a ring-wearer and scratched the heck out of the original one.

    By the way, the Navigon app (and others) issues voice commands, so you can actually use it without looking at the screen.
    2002 Silver/Black
    #61319
    No mods (except for new Alpine stereo)
    Seattle, WA

  16. #16
    Z8Mania
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    Well, it looks great! Im going to speak to the parts counter to see if they can get one for me. As to the nav, I am very particular (and peculiar!) and I don't like nav voices. I have enough voices coming at me! I prefer the voice off unless Im in really unfamiliar territory. I will miss the soothing voice of Money Penny (my Z8 headunit is a very early software and its choices are either D or GB- and GB is a British lady.)

  17. #17
    Z8Mania
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    I note the Alpine in that pic isn't the current version of the 305 which I will picture below. The new version has a fairly tall knob- does anyone have this version and if so is this an issue with closing the door?

  18. #18
    Freedom Ouray's Avatar
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    That is the version that I have and it is not an issue.

  19. #19
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    It clears easily, Jerry.

    Here's my post on the 305 (and family) from another thread.
    http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/showpost.php...0&postcount=11
    thegunguy

  20. #20
    Z8Mania
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    Thanks Rifle. Im making the move.

  21. #21
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I really think you'll like it, Jerry. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good. I think I'm going to look for one in the next week or two. I'm also up for helping sorting out a iPhone mount.
    thegunguy

  22. #22
    Z8Mania
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    The shop I work with does some really excellent work. Im curious to see what they can come up with.

  23. #23
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    PM me your number if you get a chance. I'd love to share some input on the iPhone mount, as there are several issues I've had with my existing mount and thoughts for future-proofing.
    thegunguy

  24. #24
    Z8Mania
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    I've decided to skip this project. Funny how we have our preferences. I really like keeping the car looking stock and I like having the stock nav- even with its quaint arrows. I drove the car 300 miles the other day and never missed sat radio or my ipod. I have 6 discs of tunes I like, I decided thats all I "need". Nevertheless, thanks for all the good advice and guidance fellas. I am sure others will come here and get good info.

  25. #25
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I was considering upgrading my X100 to the X305S, but there just didn't seem to be much there other than better handling of long album/artist lists (which I have at ~40GB). Looking around the web, prices were pretty good at sub $300 on Amazon and others, but strangely stock seemed to be low. Since the X305S came out in early 2010, I'm wondering if a new model is close at hand, causing the low stock levels. This is pretty reasonable since Apple recently opened up more in-depth APIs to the iPod functions in iOS - the fruits we're seeing with the latest iDrive functionality and app integration on most of the current line of BMWs. With that, I too am going to wait for a bit as the X100, the forerunner of the 305 is still working well in my car. We'll see what Alpine might come out with later this year/early next (CES).

    In my research, I did discover the functionality of changing the background on the display. With the red illumination, I uploaded a tight mesh graphic that complements the interior pretty well while giving better contrast for the text and graphics. I've only been able to use Apline's proprietary graphics options, but I'm researching if it's possible to spoof their format to allow for truly custom graphics.
    thegunguy

  26. #26
    Z8Mania
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    Good info.

  27. #27
    Sport Button On canuckjc's Avatar
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    I'm considering installing the X305 in the next couple of weeks, reserving the OEM head unit for resale purposes.
    I was wondering if the Alpine will interface with and control the stock CD changer. I realize I won't need it with the iPod integration, but I'd like to exercise the CD unit every so often.
    -Jimmy C

  28. #28
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    It will NOT control the factory changer.

    Since the 305S has been on the market for nearly two years, I'm wondering if Alpine plan to replace it soon. You might hang tight until after CES in January, when such products are often announced.
    thegunguy

  29. #29
    Sport Button On canuckjc's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info. I just went to a local shop and they suggested Alpine might also be coming out with new offerings in Q1. Interesting, I saw an iDA-X305SBT with blue tooth on Ebay. Not sure if it's integrated or just comes with the add-on box, but it's definitely a new part number that's not even showing on the Alpine site.
    The sales person went out of his way to push a new Pioneer on me, the MVH-P8300BT. I don't know anything about it yet but will start my research.
    -Jimmy C

  30. #30
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I'm not sure the item in that auction is genuine. Note how the model number is pasted on as a separate piece of paper in both shots, but lower down on the box it says 'Bluetooth Ready', which corresponds to the specs of the 305S as listed on Alpine's site. I'm going to call BS.

    The Pioneer unit looks pretty good. In the past, Alpine was the only group making such a unit. It's about time there are others.
    thegunguy

  31. #31
    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegunguy View Post
    I was considering upgrading my X100 to the X305S, but there just didn't seem to be much there other than better handling of long album/artist lists (which I have at ~40GB). Looking around the web, prices were pretty good at sub $300 on Amazon and others, but strangely stock seemed to be low. Since the X305S came out in early 2010, I'm wondering if a new model is close at hand, causing the low stock levels. This is pretty reasonable since Apple recently opened up more in-depth APIs to the iPod functions in iOS - the fruits we're seeing with the latest iDrive functionality and app integration on most of the current line of BMWs. With that, I too am going to wait for a bit as the X100, the forerunner of the 305 is still working well in my car. We'll see what Alpine might come out with later this year/early next (CES).

    In my research, I did discover the functionality of changing the background on the display. With the red illumination, I uploaded a tight mesh graphic that complements the interior pretty well while giving better contrast for the text and graphics. I've only been able to use Apline's proprietary graphics options, but I'm researching if it's possible to spoof their format to allow for truly custom graphics.
    So how do you change the color to red. Do I have to pull the unit?
    2002 Silver Black/Red

    Dinan stage 4 software
    Dinan low restriction carbon fiber airboxes
    Dinan high flow air mass meters
    Hamann headers
    Supersprint exhaust
    performance package
    custom short shift linkage
    cdv modifacation
    Quaiffe differential/military grade gear polishing
    19 inch 3 piece HRE mags/Toyo tires
    Custom crossdrilled/slotted rotors
    ceramic brake pads
    stainless brake lines
    Dinan caster plates
    Dinan duel mass flywheel
    custom Sachs clutch /pressure plate
    Dinan pedal set

  32. #32
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    It's a menu setting.
    thegunguy

  33. #33
    Sport Button On canuckjc's Avatar
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    Good eye on the sticker part number. I didn't see that. I couldn't resist so I sent the seller a message asking about the authenticity of the unit. Let's see if I get a response.

    I've read some mixed reviews on the Pioneer. Most of the complaints have to do with the button pushes required to select preset stations. This is of secondary importance to me so it still looks interesting. The biggest problem is I can't get my hands on one to try it out. The local dealer would be happy to special order it but I'd be committed. I like the customizable colour properties and think it promises a good match to the stock lighting.
    -Jimmy C

  34. #34
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Hmmm, that Pioneer is looking interesting. Based on the video below, the interface is much more intuitive than the Alpine, and I really like the illumination flexibility with 112 color options. I'd much prefer to match the amber illumination of the car. The Alpine's red is nice, but it's an obvious departure.

    For roughly the same price as the Alpine, the Pioneer also gives you built-in Bluetooth (phone and streaming) and an EQ. On the Alpine, you only get an EQ setting (default are standard treble/bass/balance/fade) if you buy their sound optimizing hardware and software for another $250 or so. The EQ would be welcome to improve the sound with top-down driving.

    thegunguy

  35. #35
    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
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    My unit is the alpine CDA-9886. I can't seem to find the menu you speak of or is my head unit incapable of this feature. Also I am assuming you are only referring to the screen and not the unit button illumination
    2002 Silver Black/Red

    Dinan stage 4 software
    Dinan low restriction carbon fiber airboxes
    Dinan high flow air mass meters
    Hamann headers
    Supersprint exhaust
    performance package
    custom short shift linkage
    cdv modifacation
    Quaiffe differential/military grade gear polishing
    19 inch 3 piece HRE mags/Toyo tires
    Custom crossdrilled/slotted rotors
    ceramic brake pads
    stainless brake lines
    Dinan caster plates
    Dinan duel mass flywheel
    custom Sachs clutch /pressure plate
    Dinan pedal set

  36. #36
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    The illumination option is for both the screen and buttons. However, I can't speak to your model, only the iPod focused iDA-X models.
    thegunguy

  37. #37
    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
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    Mine is an ipod/ sirius/ bluetooth model that looks just like the pics here (small knob model) I just find no refrence to the screen change color in the telephone book that is the manual
    2002 Silver Black/Red

    Dinan stage 4 software
    Dinan low restriction carbon fiber airboxes
    Dinan high flow air mass meters
    Hamann headers
    Supersprint exhaust
    performance package
    custom short shift linkage
    cdv modifacation
    Quaiffe differential/military grade gear polishing
    19 inch 3 piece HRE mags/Toyo tires
    Custom crossdrilled/slotted rotors
    ceramic brake pads
    stainless brake lines
    Dinan caster plates
    Dinan duel mass flywheel
    custom Sachs clutch /pressure plate
    Dinan pedal set

  38. #38
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I just looked your CDA-9886 up on Alpine's site, and while it shares some design similarities, it's an entirely different animal that serves as a general purpose head unit, not like the iPod/iPhone focused iDA-X, which is a separate product line. The site also states that your model only does blue and does not allow for custom backgrounds.

    Sorry for any confusion, but when you compare them direct from Alpine, it's clear that they're different model lines for different applications.
    thegunguy

  39. #39
    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegunguy View Post
    I just looked your CDA-9886 up on Alpine's site, and while it shares some design similarities, it's an entirely different animal that serves as a general purpose head unit, not like the iPod/iPhone focused iDA-X, which is a separate product line. The site also states that your model only does blue and does not allow for custom backgrounds.

    Sorry for any confusion, but when you compare them direct from Alpine, it's clear that they're different model lines for different applications.
    Thanks for clearing that up. So if I want to go with compatable lights that means a new radio. I was afraid of that. next year. This year duel mass flywheel and heavy duty clutch!
    2002 Silver Black/Red

    Dinan stage 4 software
    Dinan low restriction carbon fiber airboxes
    Dinan high flow air mass meters
    Hamann headers
    Supersprint exhaust
    performance package
    custom short shift linkage
    cdv modifacation
    Quaiffe differential/military grade gear polishing
    19 inch 3 piece HRE mags/Toyo tires
    Custom crossdrilled/slotted rotors
    ceramic brake pads
    stainless brake lines
    Dinan caster plates
    Dinan duel mass flywheel
    custom Sachs clutch /pressure plate
    Dinan pedal set

  40. #40
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Based on your mods, you definitely could use the clutch. Which one are you considering?
    thegunguy

  41. #41
    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
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    I'll be getting the dinan flywheel and the sachs 2800 lbs heavy duty clutch. I'm the only Z8 in my car club so I have to be able to keep up with the ferraris and lambos
    2002 Silver Black/Red

    Dinan stage 4 software
    Dinan low restriction carbon fiber airboxes
    Dinan high flow air mass meters
    Hamann headers
    Supersprint exhaust
    performance package
    custom short shift linkage
    cdv modifacation
    Quaiffe differential/military grade gear polishing
    19 inch 3 piece HRE mags/Toyo tires
    Custom crossdrilled/slotted rotors
    ceramic brake pads
    stainless brake lines
    Dinan caster plates
    Dinan duel mass flywheel
    custom Sachs clutch /pressure plate
    Dinan pedal set

  42. #42
    Z8Mania
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    The Pioneer model looks great but Im waiting for something that does it all:
    iPod/iPhone/Sat Radio/ Nav.

  43. #43
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    With the way things are going, I don't think you'll see Nav. Nor do I think it would be a good experience. This is an area where smartphones are really making strides, especially due to the frequent software and map updates, that are often free. CE devices just aren't well connected or setup for the software updates that are necessary in today's exploding map tech area.

    My wish is for in-car systems that are really just driver focused UI and display monitors for iPhone and Android. Oh, and amp and switching, of course, but there's really no reason to build the functionality in to the CE devices when software on the phone can provide all the features. I especially see this being the case for OE installations, and you can see the future already with BMW Apps. Essentially, they could easily replace the brain in iDrive with software on your iPhone or Android phone and utilize the wheel controller and display for the interface. I think we'll see this in the next generation of cars - the mid F series.

    That kind of got of your wish list, but I really don't think we'll ever see a NAV in a 1DIN unit ever again.
    thegunguy

  44. #44
    Z8Mania
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    I know thats what you say but Ive tried the iPhone nav apps and I find them lacking. I just don't like interfacing with my phone that way. I don't want to be looking at my phones screen while driving the Z8. I prefer for it to be part of the car's system. I think you are right about where its going- it will just mirror whats on the device and then we will both have our way.

  45. #45
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I think we talked about this a year ago or so, but which apps did you try? I'm using Navigon that was recently bought by Garmin. I think it's really good, and Garmin added some new bits to it recently that makes fast and light with an improved interface.

    I guess that's the point. With a pure software solution, they are much easier to improve, compared to the current in-car systems which I find to be pretty poor, and sadly, set in stone. There are some good ones: Lexus/Toyota, Ford has greatly improved, and BMWs is pretty great when you figure it out (except please kill the grey on grey maps - seriously?).
    thegunguy

  46. #46
    Z8Mania
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    I tried that one- the problem for me is I don't want to "ruin" the interior of my Z8 with an iPhone mount. I also find the need for bluetooth phone useless in the Z8 but it would be nice to have sat radio.

  47. #47
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I've got a mount that fits in the cup holder. It's not great, but it's also not permanent. I'd still like to work on a mount that fits in the slot mount for the cup holder. If we only knew someone who could do CAD work. Hmmmm....
    thegunguy

  48. #48
    Z8Mania
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    http://www.aidesign.com/

    tell them Jerry sent you.

  49. #49
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Impressive!
    thegunguy

  50. #50
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegunguy View Post
    If you get the radio from a place like Crutcfield, they supply the connector, and it's literally a snap.
    I'm ready to upgrade the head unit after 1500 miles with no music riding the wild west of Texas- no radio stations and the DICE for the ipod is dead (again).
    Crutchfield says that they cannot supply the harness for any of the radios for the Z8. Has anyone found a source that can supply one for DIY?
    Has anyone incorporated satellite radio? Where does the antenna work without being an eyesore?

  51. #51
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    The connectors are standard. So, even if you have to solder up your own converter harness, it's doable. For the effort a good mobile audio shop can probably do an install for a few hundred dollars, plus equipment. That's probably the way I'd go since the harness seems to be MIA.

    The radio antenna is behind the rear bumper cover. I don't know much about satellite radio, other than it sounds terrible. So, it might be possible to put the little puck antenna with the others.

    I can say that I'll never buy another DICE style device. Their interface is a hack experience and I haven't heard of one that didn't fail.

    I'm still amazed at how the original paper cones are holding up. I'm sure I'll end up put in new speakers sometime in the future, but for now the Alpine still has a much improved sound to stock.
    thegunguy

  52. #52
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegunguy View Post
    I've got a mount that fits in the cup holder. It's not great, but it's also not permanent. I'd still like to work on a mount that fits in the slot mount for the cup holder. If we only knew someone who could do CAD work. Hmmmm....
    Has anyone taken this further? Find anything that fits in the slot mount?

  53. #53
    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
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    Yes I did this with an integral remote for my valintine detector. Should have pics in upgrade thread
    2002 Silver Black/Red

    Dinan stage 4 software
    Dinan low restriction carbon fiber airboxes
    Dinan high flow air mass meters
    Hamann headers
    Supersprint exhaust
    performance package
    custom short shift linkage
    cdv modifacation
    Quaiffe differential/military grade gear polishing
    19 inch 3 piece HRE mags/Toyo tires
    Custom crossdrilled/slotted rotors
    ceramic brake pads
    stainless brake lines
    Dinan caster plates
    Dinan duel mass flywheel
    custom Sachs clutch /pressure plate
    Dinan pedal set

  54. #54
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Yes, I knew I saw a custom design somewhere....
    Where did you place your Sirius antenna?

  55. #55
    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
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    Jan 2009
    Posts
    278
    It's in chat room under "fabricating gps radar detector holder" from 2009 just do a search to see the pics. Don't know how to transfer here
    2002 Silver Black/Red

    Dinan stage 4 software
    Dinan low restriction carbon fiber airboxes
    Dinan high flow air mass meters
    Hamann headers
    Supersprint exhaust
    performance package
    custom short shift linkage
    cdv modifacation
    Quaiffe differential/military grade gear polishing
    19 inch 3 piece HRE mags/Toyo tires
    Custom crossdrilled/slotted rotors
    ceramic brake pads
    stainless brake lines
    Dinan caster plates
    Dinan duel mass flywheel
    custom Sachs clutch /pressure plate
    Dinan pedal set

  56. #56

  57. #57

    Connector for Alpine iDA-X305SBT

    I just got an Alpine iDA-X305SBT for my birthday! Is it too late for this radio?

    I'm having a hard time finding the connector required to avoid cutting into the OEM harness. Any chance someone knows the model number of the connector? Is it made by Scosche or Metra?

    Thanks in advance!

    Andy
    _________
    Andy Lytle
    2002 Z8 Silver/Black 23k
    Performance Package
    CDV Removed
    www.golytle.com