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Thread: Perception becomes reality.....

  1. #1
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    Perception becomes reality.....

    ....does it really matter at this point whether a real "problem" exists or not. Without question, distortions have occurred. Is this a "problem"? Depends on your definition of problem. Is it a safety issue type of problem....or just a perception the car will warp but not necessarily fail? Or a problem of diminished value? At this point it does not matter. I personally do not think this is a safety issue....but it is a value problem. The cat's out of the bag at this point. If there is widespread concern about a problem...doesn't matter a hill of beans...perception is reality.

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    Agreed

    I have seen no data to indicate there is any current safety issue, but in 10 years? who knows, as the frames undergo repeated stress. I am not worried about safety--yet. However, there is plenty of data to show that deformation of the shock towers, changes in body panel gaps, and wheel alignment problems are a real risk of normal driving (sporty driving on bad roads my a**). If the distortion becomes too bad, the car can not be brought into correct alignment at some point, which would definetely impair "drivability"---there have been a few but not many of these reports. So basically we have to be afraid of every pothole, and since they are often hard to see, we must focus on finding road imperfections instead of enjoying driving the car. Great, love it. Ultimate Worry Machine. I doubt anyone will ever notice any distortion my car may suffer in the future, but I will know, and the real bimmer bummer is how much this will decrease the unbridled enjoyment of driving the car. Anyone who is "sporty" or "enthusiastic" or who drives on real roads is guilty of car abuse according to BMW---and must pay the "abuse tax" aka "no bmw responsibility/liability" tax for such behavior.

  3. #3
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    a great company would not have this happen to the customers., and you are so correct Rjay.

  4. #4
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    Look at Fords response

    I will soon take delivery of a 06 Ford GT. I am therefore very interested in the Ford suspension recall. We Z8 owners should look at the example set by Ford with regards to the questions about the A arms in the 05 GT suspension. None of these ever broke and it is not clear that they would have ever broken, but when Ford discovered a possible problem they sent a flatbed to pick up the cars or repaired them in place ala Jay Leno's and did so immediately. They also sent all owners a letter requesting that they not drive the cars, though none had failed. Even the Ford mules that had been seriously abused had ever failed, but Ford was responsible. I am not happy with BMW because I have not heard from them about this problem, nor have I heard of their solution. I will be very p----d to find out that they treat this repair/retrofit as a performance enhancement. That is bull ? this car should be good for a few years of driving on today?s roads. Is one pothole the same as 10 years worth of repeated small bumps? BMW must fix our cars and to do so soon or face the outrage and wrath of we owners.

    Hap

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    Perhaps Ford is a alot more responsible since they are still making and selling the car, whereas the Z8 is out of production, so a poor response by BMW does not threaten future sales of that particular model (short sighted I know, since it will affect future purchases of other models!)

  6. #6
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    That's not correct AFAIK.

    Look at this:
    http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/02/03/gt_over/
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  7. #7
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    Ford only planned for a two-year production for the GT (~4,000 cars). The GT would require a major redesign of the doors in order to meet 2007 side impact requirements. Ford will continue to make the GT until 31 August 2006. How long "new" GT's sit in the showroom will depend on how long dealers continue to price the cars above MSRP.

    If I could only hit the lottery...

    Regards,
    nitmr26
    speed is life

  8. #8
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    So it looks like the GT's situation is quite comparable to the Z8 one, although the Z8 has been out of production for a longer time.
    Interesting to see how a company like Ford acts, perhaps somebody has information how that process developed?
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

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    My point is that Ford had a greater incentive to behave quickly and more responsibly since the problem with the GT came to light right at the start of their production run, and the car would have been "stillborn" if they had not made good on it. I don't mean it should be an excuse for BMW, but the timing was way different imho.

  10. #10
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rjay
    My point is that Ford had a greater incentive to behave quickly and more responsibly since the problem with the GT came to light right at the start of their production run, and the car would have been "stillborn" if they had not made good on it. I don't mean it should be an excuse for BMW, but the timing was way different imho.
    Agreed, I just wanted to use this as a shining example for BMW how somebody might handle such a comparable situation.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

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    Yes, a very good example indeed


    Quote Originally Posted by dwz8
    Agreed, I just wanted to use this as a shining example for BMW how somebody might handle such a comparable situation.

  12. #12
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Robert Linton's Avatar
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    And, Zola, once again:

    "Would you allow me, grateful as I am for the kind reception you once extended to me, to show my concern about maintaining your well-deserved prestige and to point out that your star which, until now, has shone so brightly, risks being dimmed by the most shameful and indelible of stains?"

  13. #13

    I so wanted to believe that there was some honor at BMW NA

    but sadly this week has finally shown me that you were right all along, I stand corrected.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  14. #14
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    What's happened this week...

    Andrew, is it time to let the big dogs loose?

  15. #15

    One step at a time....

    It isn?t the time to do anything now, but wait. The ball is now in their court, and as the next few weeks roll past, and summer turns to winter we shall see the results of these tests, and how BMW NA will deal with the consequences of releasing a structurally flawed car into this market segment.

    If they wake up and smell the coffee we could still have an amicable end to all this, but their tricky little maneuvers of the last two weeks underline the fact they are doing anything and everything to divide us so that we are not a united, cohesive voice of disgust.

    However in the meantime I would ask all of you to record every conversation with BMW NA, and keep every correspondence.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  16. #16
    Sport Button On - DSC Off jim's Avatar
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    BMW Inspection

    I called BMW NA a month ago to understand what their plan was. I recieved a call back from a Ken Richardson who arranged an appointment w/ his Field Service Engineer, Don Barbier (800-626-2484, ext 6686). He is going around the South East inspecting the Z8's but only upon request. Inspection takes 2 hours. Puts it on the lift, removes the inner fender well, measures and photographs both front and rear shock towers, exterior gaps etc. Writes a report and off it goes to BMW NA. Fortunately mine showed zero issues. he confirmed the "performance package" is coming. I confirmed I wanted it but had no intention on paying for it. BTW, The "quick see" for the Z8's problem is if there is any "dome-ing" around the top of the shock tower. The 1" rim where the 3 bolts secure should be flat. He and my dealer (Braman Palm Beach) couldn't have been nicer or expediant.

  17. #17
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info

    let's hope NA is as nice as your dealer was

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    I share the perception that BMW NA is weaseling on this issue and that it's certainly a value issue if not a safety issue. One can hope that BMW NA will come to its senses and look at the larger issue here - this is a small group of relatively well-heeled customers, many, if not most, of whom have owned or leased numerous BMW's. I've seen postings indicating that in some instances in the past BMW has stonewalled regarding problems with some models. I have no reason to doubt that it is true. I also know that in some instances BMW has responded properly when repairs involved far greater numbers of vehicles that the total Z8 production run. In the early 90's many of the new V8's had problems due to the lining of the cylinders in the aluminum block. Large numbers of these cars had their engines replaced. More recently, and closer to home in my case, many of us who owned e46 M3's had all our crankshaft bearings replaced under warranty and our engine warranties extended because some e46 engines had blown up.

    It's not unreasonable to suppose that if BMW NA is weaseling on this problem for fear of the downstream liability that would attach to a forthright and honest response, it's fear of the costs of fixing cars that have some damage, rather than of putting a fix on those that aren't showing any damage yet.

    The best (albeit not perfect) predictor of an organization's future responses is its past behavior, but in this instance, given inconsistent prior behaviors and problematic current responses its anybody's guess what will ultimately occur. It's time for some leadership at BMW NA. Does Tom Purves even know about this issue, or are his minions "managing" it?

    Mike

  19. #19

    Mr. Purves knows about this issue....

    BMW NA has been very involved with BMW AG in trying to figure out what to do about this, and this has been at the very highest levels of BMW AG's board. There is no way this is progressing with his knowledge. I have no idea what kind of man he is, but I really wonder just how he would feel if he was an owner? If he had bought this dream car, and then realized it was structurally flawed, would he not wish for an honorable solution?

    Human beings seem to find being a part of a corporation ample excuse to loose their empathy and humanity. Enron, Lincoln Savings and Loan, WorldCom are just a few examples of the way being on the inside seems to strip the core values right out of a person. Let us hope BMW has the kind of honor and dignity we would expect of a customer based company claiming to sell an ultimate driving machine. If it is the ultimate driving machine it deserves the ultimate customer service.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  20. #20
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    Just got back my inspection report from BMWNA

    In Summary, the car is within specificaiton (I was pretty sure that this would be the case). With regards to the performance package, BMWNA:

    " which is still being developed and expected to be available sometime during the summer, when it is available, BMW plans to do a special mailing to all Z8 owners of record. At that time, it will be up to each owner to decide whether ther wish to purchase this enhancement. "

    I am sorry but my scanner gave me fits so I could not let you see the whole letter from BMWNA. BMW NA has been courteous but...

    I am still waiting after 1 week to hear if I can pick up my car from Crevier..

    I love this car...dammit

  21. #21
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    What the ...

    I just talked to the guy at the dealer after a week of my car in purgatory. He said they are waiting for the field technician to give a response. He said what? Please note my previous post as BMWNA responded to me before the Crevirer. I think the Crevier is doing the best they can but what the..

    Sorry but I have been silent and am willing to give everyone one chance to do the right thing. But I see BMW doing what is easy... but not right!!!

    When I get my scanner back in line..I can forward the letter..