View Poll Results: How would a "no fix, you're on your own" from BMW affect your decisions?

Voters
53. You may not vote on this poll
  • I would continue to purchase BMWs, no impact at all

    9 16.98%
  • It would affect my private purchases

    40 75.47%
  • It would affect corporate purchases I have an influence over

    21 39.62%
  • not sure yet

    2 3.77%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: BMW Purchases

  1. #1
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    BMW Purchases

    Trying to get over the waiting time, I started thinking about further purchases from BMW.
    I have driven BMWs for 25 years now, and I have signed purchases or leases for more than 20 of them privately or for my company.
    Today I put the negotiations to replace a 320i in our adminstration on hold, as well as the discussions for a potential M6 replacing my 745. I felt like I want to know the outcome of this frame issue first, before I continue buying from BMW. Most likely, a "no" or unpleasant reply from BMW would heavily impact further purchases that I am going to make.

    Perhaps it would be a good idea to give them an impression how we feel in general about this, being loyal BMW customers. Probably also good to shed some light on how many cars need our signature to be purchased...
    What do you think? Is it reasonable to let this very special issue on a very special car affect other decisions?
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  2. #2
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Already affected

    I've stated this before.....I adore my Z8. However, I scheduled a testdrive in an Aston Martin V-8 Vantage for this weekend if its not snowing, and my wife is not getting a new 5 series to replace her Benz until this is resolved.

  3. #3
    Z8 Madness
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    Bmw & I

    Thus far, (I'm 32 and hope to live at least that much longer ), I've purchased a new 2003 M3 (sold and replaced w/530i), a new 2005 530i (sold and replaced w/Prius & Z8), a new 2006 330i (for my fianc?), and a used 2002 Z8 (a.k.a., the two ton paper weight machine sitting in my garage). This is over 1/4 of a million dollars

    If BMW is monitoring this site, I want them to know that the outcome of the Z8 situation will determine if I ever buy another BMW.

    .... and this is my 50th post, do I get a prize?
    2016 Porsche GTS/MT

  4. #4
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Dogsbreath's Avatar
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    Future Purchases

    I have already shelved the M5 acquisition and we will not be replacing our family car with an X5. One of my colleagues has put off replacing his AMG with a BMW until he sees the outcome. I did let BMW NA know - in a non-confrontational way. It may help if BMW is reminded that future acquisitions depend on present day interaction. It certainly cannot hurt.

    Dave

  5. #5

    Indeed, future purchases most certainly depend

    current performance, but I think that this must be painfully clear to those at the top in Germany. I have owned, in order of appearance;

    R60/6
    R100/7
    R100RS X 3 (totalling nearly 100,000 miles!)
    R100GS
    735i
    Z8
    M3smg
    Z8
    Z8

    BMW has been the brand that I have traveled more miles with, and loved more than any other. My respect and enthusiasm for the brand, and my joy with the Z8, is what made me start this site.

    I have always driven my BMW's with pride, owning a BMW has always been a very special experience for me, and I have never had a bad experience with one, until now.

    I really hope BMW will allow me to remain a proud and enthusiastic ambassador for their generally wonderful machines by taking care of us now. In great part because of the splendid efforts of the Z8 Club, I really believe they will.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenZ8
    I've stated this before.....I adore my Z8. However, I scheduled a testdrive in an Aston Martin V-8 Vantage for this weekend if its not snowing, and my wife is not getting a new 5 series to replace her Benz until this is resolved.
    What a coincidence. I am looking at an Aston Martin next Tuesday.
    Richie

  7. #7
    Sport Button On nitmr26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenZ8
    I've stated this before.....I adore my Z8. However, I scheduled a testdrive in an Aston Martin V-8 Vantage for this weekend if its not snowing, and my wife is not getting a new 5 series to replace her Benz until this is resolved.
    Ken,

    Please post a review of your test drive. Pictures would be most appreciated as well. I placed a deposit on a 2007 AM V8 before I changed my mind and decided on the Z8. I would really like to hear a comparison of the two cars.

    Thanks again for your offer to look at the Z8's at BLI, but I've decided to put my Z8 shopping on hold until I'm confident that BMW can and will fix the cars.

    Richie,

    I would love to hear your thoughts on the Aston as well.

    Best Regards,
    Jason
    speed is life

  8. #8
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    The Spirits have spoken

    My test drive was cancelled due to an impending storm that is supposed to drop a foot or more of the white stuff. There was no snow in the forecast until 3 minutes after I scheduled the drive. I think someone is telling me something. Besides, the salesman didn't like the idea that I wanted to cut the Vantage's roof off for the testdrive so I could more equally compare driving sensations with my beloved Z8. I'll try again next week and report back.

  9. #9
    Sport Button On Z8Mark's Avatar
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    I have been driving BMWs for the last 22 years starting with a 1984 318i, shich I still own and drive (240,000 miles). My present daily driver is a 1998 750iL, a sedan without peers, but a bit long in the tooth. I too have been looking at the Aston's ( I prefer the DB9 to the V8) as a replacement. The intial reason for not going with BMW had more to do with the Bangle Butt than factory support, then I saw the new M5 and thought maybe I should at least test drive it, and why not the 645 as well. Now I'll just put the new car decision on hold and see what happens. I do love my Z8 (actually all my BMWs), but how BMW handles this will certainly affect any future purchasing decisions.

  10. #10
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    No --- Never

    In 1979 I purchased a new 528I, a model to replace the awesome 530I and make it CA and US EPA compliant. At 60,000 miles the head cracked. A well known and published problem with that engine. BMW offered no help even though the dealer admitted it was a very common. 1986 came and I had to have a 635. The car was brought in for its 600 mile oil change and run into by the dealer service truck. The car required a whole new front clip and cooling system. BMW was the lessor and refused to wave the lease and insisted on payment even though the expected repair schedule called for 2-3 months down time. I filed suit and ended the lease. I swore I would never have another BMW. But then came the Z8 and the heart overpowered the brain and its memories. I waited to get a 2003 and love the car, but in my estimation BMW has not changed since 1979. On the surface they appear to be more client friendly. Perhaps it is the litiginous times, but we are car guys and little more than a letter reassuring us that they are doing everything possible to resolve the issue would have been sufficient. Nope, no more BMW for this guy. I just read the new Autoweek and I'm going to test drive the Cadillac XLR-V.

  11. #11
    Registered User Rich's Avatar
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    BMW Losing A Customer

    In addition to my Z8 Alpina, I've owned four seven series BMW's including my current 2006 750. If BMW handles the frame damage issue poorly, I will not buy another BMW.

    While I will admit that it was bought on impulse, I just picked up a 2006 Corvette to use while my Z8 is grounded.

    Rich

  12. #12
    Z8Mania
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    The C6 Vette is a terrific vehicle- enjoy!

  13. #13
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    I feel the same, 2nd BMW and not looking at any bmw UNTIL this is addressed. Also the gap on the Z8 appears larger every week I look at the Z8, and waiting for the snow to melt and drive it to the dealership. Sad times our gaps are getting larger the longer BMW waits.

  14. #14
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    I share the same feelings....

    I have always enjoyed the way BMWs drove ever since I bought my first one used from my brother in 1985 (320i). I have had other vehicles from then forward but never "enjoyed the drive" as much until I returned to BMW with the purchase of my X5, and Z8. I always wanted an M6 so I went out and bought a barely used 1988 M6 too!

    How BMW is handling this Z8 situation already is affecting whether or not I will stay with BMW for future sales as my daughter was wanting an M3 for a graduation gift but we will NOT be purchasing that and will be getting something else instead. I am not sure what yet, but it will definitely NOT be a BMW. The X5 is about ready for the trade too and more than likely, I will not go with another BMW (probably a Lexus).

    I had problems years ago with a Dodge dealer (lemon car I could not get fixed). It was a local problem with the dealer and even though Chrysler Corp in Detroit had to step in for Customer satisfaction and everything got resolved, I have never bought another Chrysler product and never will (and that includes a MB since they have merged -- guilty by association). If BMW is reading these posts, they better take notice of how stubborn all of us can be as consumers!
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  15. #15
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    Exclamation me too

    i have been looking at both Porsche and MB....no more BMW.

  16. #16
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    I Squared

    I have two 7 series, which I had scheduled for a trade-in when the 2007's come in. I told the dealer that I am deferring that decision until I see the outcome of this Z-8 debacle.

    My Z8 is part of a small collection of "performance" cars. This is very disappointing to me.

  17. #17
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    Disbelief

    I'm still in a state of disbelief regarding BMW's response to the frame issue. My perception is that a thousand dollar suit has delivered the smack talk message: "Cars bend sucker, get over it." But I guess I shouldn't be too surprised as their handling of the LSD issue wasn't much different: "Typos happen sucker, get over it." I suppose it is a good business move - stonewall, quietly settle with the most vocal troublemakers, and get on with selling M6's and Z10's to a new set of suckers.

    Frankly, I do feel like the proverbial sucker. I thought I was buying a high performance roadster, BMW's best, that I could confidently and safely drive for 10 or 20 years on the "less than billiard table smooth" roller coaster country roads that I frequent. Were my expectations unreasonable? I reread "the book" last night for the first time in 2 years, and I believe my expectations were entirely reasonable. The section discussing the aluminum frame was particularly revealing. This reread of "the book" leads me to believe that a good New York litigator would be able to paint a pretty damning picture of BMW's treatment of Z8 owners regarding the frame and LSD issues.

    I'm heartened that Grease Monkey and Dinan are looking for a solution. Thanks so much to both. However, I hope that BMW steps up and provides some guidance, either directly to owners, or indirectly through Dinan. I'm happy to spend money to make my car bulletproof, but I have lingering concerns fueled by my engineering background that if the current weak link in the frame is stiffened, it may create or reveal another weak link that is even more difficult and expensive to repair. This is where BMW's guidance would be invaluable.

    Just to keep this rant on topic: My wife and I wanted a luxury wagon to haul groceries and gear, so there is a brand new A6 Avant parked in the garage. A few months ago, it would most likely have been a 5 Series Touring, but I could not and will not spend another dime on BMW until they help Z8 owners get what they paid for.

    If there are a bunch of misspelled words above, just remember, typos happen.

  18. #18
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    Cool

    ZBOBZ, you so right. I have had the same bad experiance with BMW. I ordered a CLK420 cab in a special interior color and was upset with the delay.
    What did MB do to me?
    Well the US distrib of MB met me at the dealership and said the car wouldn't be available for a few months, and gave the dealership a similar colored car to use until my order came in because there was a shipping problem!
    Too bad MB did not make a Z8, MB would stand behind their car. BMW really need to learn from MB and Lexus how to keep their customer. I say BOYCOTT BMW.

  19. #19
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    the dark side

    Melny, I looked at an SL600 today. What an exhaust note! Too bad it doesn't have a 6 speed manual. I've been a life long BMW fan and enthusiast, but things change.

  20. #20

    and I already got an SL500...

    which I'm loving to bits, it really is a lovely luxury mobile, perfect compliment to the Elsie. However this might well be my next purchase, especially if they make it with a convertible hard-top!

    The new Porsche 928.
     
    Andrew Macpherson

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  21. #21
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Ah yes, the 928! Liked the old one ...

    Quote Originally Posted by macfly
    which I'm loving to bits, it really is a lovely luxury mobile, perfect compliment to the Elsie. However this might well be my next purchase, especially if they make it with an convertible hard-top!

    The new Porsche 928.
    and I too have been eyeing the new one --- waiting for information on the convertible too!

    Hey here is an idea -- what about a group buy for a new car and all of us dump our Z8's at the same time! Do you think BMW would get the message then?

    What car would you all want if we did a group buy?
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  22. #22
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Y'all are finding some interesting alternatives

    I about jumped out of my seat last week when AutoSpies posted that pic of the 928. While it's not a Porsche for purists, I've always loved the looks of the 928, and the updated version could be killer. Image if they drop the 520hp engine from the Cayenne Turbo in that bad boy!

    The other future car on my mind is the 2008 Audi R8. It should have a lot of goodies lifted from the Lambo, and a few new Audi only tricks such as a 7 speed DSG. I also prefer Audi's styling. The recent spy shots look great. I had a TT for a few months, and it was a fun toy. The R8 seems to have inherited the unique styling that made the TT a winner. If memory serves, the R8 (Le Mans concept) looked pretty fitting in iRobot.

    As far as something on the market today, there's little that interests me as a substitute for the Z8. The Ford GT and DB9 (distant cousin) come to mind, but even they have their flaws. It just seems that there's really nothing so perfectly multifaceted as the Z8. When "stole" my 2001 with 1,664 miles back in September, I bought the car for my family to enjoy (at least that how I sold the wife), and the pain and expense of worrying and fighting BMW doesn't fit into that equation. Spring is on the way, and I can't wait. So, for me the Z8 is here to stay ? at least until it breaks.

    As far as purchasing from BMW again, I can't say never. To me, they still make the best road cars going, and I've never had an issue with their service, quite the opposite actually. Time will tell on their responsibility and response to the frame issue. I'm just not ready to crucify them yet with so many unknowns. I will say that I don't intend on buying a modern car from any manufacturer out of warranty or to keep indefinitely unless I view it as totally disposable. It seems like all of the technology that makes today's cars great also makes them short-lived.

    I do have to admit that I have a wanting eye fixed on the new R1200GS these days. BMW, you're like the girl that treated me so wrong but I could keep from going back for more. Hurt me, baby!

    If you haven't seen the 2008 R8, I attached a pic of the "Le Mans" concept below.
     
    thegunguy

  23. #23

    Well, the new news that BMW will stand beside us...

    totally changes my feelings, and I'm now genuinely excited to see the mid-engined V10. I think it'll be the perfect replacement for my SL when it is ready.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  24. #24
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    Talking I agree that I am indeed excited with the new NEWS!

    Quote Originally Posted by macfly
    totally changes my feelings, and I'm now genuinely excited to see the mid-engined V10. I think it'll be the perfect replacement for my SL when it is ready.
    But, I am interested to know WHO is going to pay for the retrofix / retrofit?? I am willing to buy a fix but should we really have to? The fact that they are working on a retrofit confirms they agree there is a problem of some kind. A safety issue it appears to NOT be which is obviously a good thing.

    So, where does that leave us with regard to driving to Sante Fe in our Z8s? I , for one, am currently planning on driving my Z8 to the Meet in the Middle -- anyone else?
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  25. #25

    Yes, my Z8 will very likely be on the run too....

    I have asked all the confirmed participants to email me so I can see who is still coming, and also see if I can help in anyway organize the retrofit.

    When I go to Munich in April I'll certainly invite both the Club members, and also some of the BMW contacts we have, to come to the Meet in the Middle, and since it will be the biggest gathering of Z8's in once place in the states I hope we'll get a few visitors! It will really be a wonderful celebration for Z8 owners now!!
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  26. #26
    Sport Button On nitmr26's Avatar
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    With the latest announcement from BMW...

    The dream is still alive. The search for my Z8 resumes.

    KenZ8,

    The next time you find yourself in Bentley Long Island, would you mind taking a look at the '01 Silver/Black Z8 in their showroom? I never did get a reply from Keith. Walter has been sending my updates to their Z8 inventory.

    Sincerely,
    Jason
    speed is life

  27. #27
    Team Z8 jawz's Avatar
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    Orcatek and I were, and still are, planning to make

    the trip. Count us in! Sorry Orcatek...didn't mean to speak for you

  28. #28
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    German club visitors

    Quote Originally Posted by macfly
    I have asked all the confirmed participants to email me so I can see who is still coming, and also see if I can help in anyway organize the retrofit.

    When I go to Munich in April I'll certainly invite both the Club members, and also some of the BMW contacts we have, to come to the Meet in the Middle, and since it will be the biggest gathering of Z8's in once place in the states I hope we'll get a few visitors! It will really be a wonderful celebration for Z8 owners now!!

    I may be driving Solo, so might have a seat available for the trip. Perhaps a bed too, if My wife doesn't end up attending. Can't commit for sure, but I'd be happy to have a copilot if I have room.

  29. #29

    Well, it's been a long time now....

    six months to the day from the last post on this thread, and I doubt that we'll be in a position to really know where BMW NA's honor and commitment to the owners who bought its most expensive car is until early next year. When this thread started I thought that we would get our cars protected for this years driving season, but now it seems that was just too little time. Just like the original issue I don't think anyone minds that as much as the not being told anything. I have tried several times this week to get hold of Nina Englert, but in typically childish and petty way BMW NA are dealing with us she refuses to talk to me.

    At this point there is absolutely no chance that I will ever buy another BMW, the only question left is will I have go to court over this one?
    Andrew Macpherson

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  30. #30
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Did Bill Stewart change his ph number?

    I've tried to call 5 or 6 times over the summer, but all ring, no answer, not even a machine. Kinda makes you know, not just wonder what kind of cowardly crooks they are.

  31. #31

    I haven't spoken to him for quite some time now.....

    but he has answered my emails. Here is the info I have on him......

    William Stuart
    BMW NA
    300 Chestnut Ridge Rd
    Woodcliff Lake,
    NJ 07677-7731
    201 263 8210
    201 930 8362
    Andrew Macpherson

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  32. #32
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Talking BMW loses another sale

    Needed a replacement for the old Expedition, Got the '07 Mercedes GL450. Big enough to tow a race car or the Z8? No way I was going to wait for the stretched X5, just so I could be screwed again. Never had a benz, never wanted a benz....Love it though. It drives like my 750li (sort of) And no freak'n i-drive type stuff, yeah!

  33. #33

    I have agree on MB.

    I love my SL500 too. I actually had an older SL560 before the Z8, but I never really liked it that much, dull to look at and dull to drive. However the new SL is really a quantum leap, and though it doesn't have the panach of the Z8 it is still a wonderful daily driver and a stunning open top tourer, though I'd hesitate to describe it as a sports car.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  34. #34
    Team Z8 tomfakes's Avatar
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    We're leaving BMW too

    We have a deposit on a Lexus GS450h, we'll be trading in two 330s (but keeping the Z8)

  35. #35
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
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    In fact,

    when I went in to pick up my Z8 my salesman came up to me and said: "I can order an M6 with a 6 speed". I have driven a Z4 and a Maserati with the cambio corso transmission. You sit there, rolling around, wondering when somethig is going to engage. It reminds me of nothing more than driving a go-kart with a centrifugal clutch. I really don't like SMGs, so a real transmission with a real clutch is a "must" for me.

    I was back the following Saturday to inquire if BMW would build an Indianaoplis Red one with a Sepang full-leather interior. If all goes well, I will pick it up in Spartanburg next September.

  36. #36

    Congratulations...

    I greatly enjoyed my short drive in the one I tried last year in Munich, the car is really wonderful, but the motor is just spectacular - you will have a blast with it!
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  37. #37
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
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    Thank you, Andrew

    I am looking forward to the cross-country trip home. Hoefully it will be less eventful than the drive back in the Z3 last year.

    The M6 is the first car by Chris Bangle I have liked. It isn't easily beautiful like the Z8, in fact it is brutal and exudes dominance from any angle, but considering its capabilities, this is in perfect character for the car. The design is much cleaned up from the 6-series upon which itis based. Rather than pointing out and down, making the car look too heavy, the lower air intake frames the grille. We had Raffi Minasian give a gallery walk at the Blackhawk. Someone asked what made a beautiful car. One of the first things he pointed out was that a good design will not let your eye leave it. The M6 does this perfectly. It will be an interesting pairing with the Z8.

  38. #38
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
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    Holy xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx! Look what BMW just did

    335 Convertible!

    Folding metal top with the twin turbo six. Do I really need 500 HP in an M6?
     

  39. #39
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I have driven the new 335 coupe, and I was VERY impressed with the engine and transmission. The reports from the automotive press are right on. The power is ample, and there is little/no perceptible turbo lag. The responsiveness of the six-speed auto definitely caused me to question my usual preference for a standard shift in using the car as a daily driver.

    Aesthetically, I am really taken by the coupe. It's still a product of the house of Bangle, but to me this design finally "gels". The convertible looks equally attractive, and the trade-off of a metal top is probably worth the additional weight, considering the usual buyer.

    Thanks for sharing the pic!
    thegunguy

  40. #40
    Team Z8 RRZ8's Avatar
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    Beautiful ! I think this shows that BMW still knows what 'drives' them....

  41. #41
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Very pretty, really cool roof,

    But doesn't it remind anyone of a Toyota Solara?

  42. #42
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    Why is everyone throwing in the towel before a solution is reached? I just got my car and plan on driving the heck out of it-I figure it's already lost value due to the whole frame issue, so I'll devalue it myself by putting thousands of happy miles on it!

  43. #43
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
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    Talking Whoopee!

    Just heard - my M6 is finalized for delivery at the Performance Center the Thursday before Labor Day, and BMW has confirmed that they will build an Indianapolis Red one with Sepang leather - not one of their standard combinations.
     

  44. #44
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    What a winning combination!

    I just drooled on my keyboard while staring at my monitor. Best of luck with it.