View Poll Results: Tail light poll

Voters
49. You may not vote on this poll
  • Tail light(s) replaced one time

    10 20.41%
  • Tail light(s) replaced more than once

    0 0%
  • Paid for parts and labor

    8 16.33%
  • Discount from BMW

    2 4.08%
  • Discount from BMW dealer

    2 4.08%
  • No tail light malfunction ever

    29 59.18%
  • I drive less than 2,000 miles/year

    34 69.39%
  • I drive less than 5,000 miles/year

    6 12.24%
  • I drive more than 5,000 miles/year

    6 12.24%
  • Current tail light problems

    10 20.41%
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Thread: Tail Light Poll

  1. #1
    The Other Red ZAchterbahn's Avatar
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    Tail Light Poll

    Please take a moment and provide your answers to the attached poll.

    At this point it looks like BMW has decided to back track on the offer to replace the original, failure prone tail lights at no cost with reengineered improved ones, provided the failure is taking place NOW.

    I have replaced the original tail lights on 2 Z8s over the years and paid a hefty price even after courtesy discounts from the dealership. All I got in return was old units from the shelf, which are likely to go bad again anytime.

    Who would have thought that what has been advertised to last the lifetime of the car would fade away so quickly.

    Please share your tail light stories on this thread and chime in with your opinion how you would expect BMW to address and handle this long known safety issue.

    I am certain that with the help of BMW Z8 Club e.V. we will find an amicable solution with BMW but without the Z8 owners' voices and support the Club can only do so much.
    ZAchterbahn
    2001 Z8

  2. #2
    I voted even though I no longer have my Z8. Never had a tail light bulb go on any of the 4 Z8's I had, but one of the relays went out once.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  3. #3
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    I replaced my tail lights (both) after their failure and a year of "discussions" with BMWNA and the dealership. During that year, I refused several replacements as they had clearly been removed from another vehicle and/or poorly refurbished as evidenced by scratches, dirt, and after-market packaging. While BMWNA did offer a courtesy, the dealer compensated by doubling the price of the parts from the original quote and BMWNA refused to get involved. In the end, I paid more for the replacement with BMWNA's courtesy than I would have paid as a walk-in customer when the discussions began. Looking back, maybe it was only the relays that went bad and poor diagnostics at the dealership (with a "Z8 certified tech")- we'll never know for sure. Either way, they ruined a great friendship that I had with the BMW Marque.

  4. #4
    Z8 Novice tonchum's Avatar
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    There has been much discussion about tail lights over the last few months, but the issue (aka failure) also affects the front turn signals. I have had both replaced (I posted a thread on January 20th, 2014 about this under the the title "Electrical System Nightmare"), but have yet to experience a failure on the rear signals..... Maybe the poll should also address the front turn signals, as the design is similar to the rear, with the bezel color being the only difference. If BMW recognizes the issue with the rear, then I believe it is imperative that they also include the front signals in any "recall"/"compensation" scheme they potentially offer.
    _____________________
    Denis Hébert
    2003 Stratus // Crema/Black
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  5. #5
    BMW is being "penny wise and pound foolish." First, this will affect every Z8 sooner or later, and they know it. Second, we Z8 owners as a group are one of the brand's best ambassadors, so why p.... us off. Third, this will only bring negative publicity to Z8s (right along with the frame issue that they also botched up) and the brand as a whole.

    If I ran my business by p.... off my best customers, I'd have no business. It's amazing BMW can continually shoot itself on the proverbial foot and get away with it; talk about Teflon.
    C.A. Cardenas (AKA Dan)
    2003 (last one?) Z8 - Hellrot / Sport Rot
    Original Owner - Munich Tourist Delivery
    -- Others --
    1988 M6 - 32K mi. - Original Owner
    1989 DINAN 750iL - 73K mi. - Original Owner
    1998 M3 - 63K mi. - Original Owner
    2015 X5 (F15) Diesel - Daily Driver

  6. #6
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Doug Dolan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ///M Blitz View Post
    BMW is being "penny wise and pound foolish." First, this will affect every Z8 sooner or later, and they know it. Second, we Z8 owners as a group are one of the brand's best ambassadors, so why p.... us off. Third, this will only bring negative publicity to Z8s (right along with the frame issue that they also botched up) and the brand as a whole.
    +1 Amen!!!
    Doug Dolan
    61297 - Stratus / Crema

  7. #7
    Carlos, you are absolutely correct, as now I am without a Z8 I'd find it very hard to muster the desire to get back into one, or any other BMW for that matter.

    Seeing BMW drop the ball on their 50 year parts promise really does destroy my belief in their brand. While it isn't such a flagrant cheat as VAG's 'Deisel-Gate' it's certainly a promise left unfulfilled, and one made about a halo car too. Not a smart move at all in my book, and as time goes by I predict BMW AG's lack of desire to supply parts, especially hard to manufacture parts like complex plastic moldings, neons & headlamps, will have a very negative long term effect on these cars. This makes it really hard to want to drive them for fear that any little damage will be unrepairable, and condemns the 'the ultimate driving machine' to being little more than a pretty paperweight.

    Seeing Brain's recent sale of the Topaz/Crema '03, yours is easily worth in the 325k range as both a rare color combo and a sub 10k miler, then on top of that being the very last US spec ever Z8 produced, maybe it's a 350k car?

    Are you feeling the fear of the texting teenager yet? ;-)
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  8. #8
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ///M Blitz View Post


    If I ran my business by p.... off my best customers, I'd have no business. It's amazing BMW can continually shoot itself on the proverbial foot and get away with it; talk about Teflon.
    In my opinion...They have not "gotten away with it". The demographics of their customer base has shifted significantly from the BMW that we used to know. It is no longer based on precision, performance, and luxury but rather on status and neighborhood appearance. Those droves of people who have flocked to buy BMW's recent offerings have little sense of any of these factors, and have fleeting tastes without the brand loyalty that this group of owners possess. When their current cars need replacement, they will buy whatever is trending at the time. We are the last of the true enthusiasts and have been disappointed (insulted?) by anemic model offerings, uninspired design, cheapened materials, and abandonment by the marque with these Z8 issues. Their teflon is wearing thin.

  9. #9
    Team Z8 Satch's Avatar
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    ... I am SOOO biting my tongue here...

  10. #10
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satch View Post
    ... I am SOOO biting my tongue here...
    I highly respect your automotive knowledge and experience. In fact, I have purchased magazines just to read some of your insights.
    If you disagree with the tone that this poll thread is taking, please chime in. If you agree but don't want negative comments floating around cyberspace associated with your name and avatar, please arrange to have a pseudonym account set up and let us hear what you have to say.

  11. #11
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    I feel for every owner who has a tail light that is not working properly and who will have to pay a hefty sum of money to get it fixed. Such is life. It’s an expensive car and the parts are expensive. I purchased my car for the joy of owning and driving it, not because I thought that the bulbs would last forever. It is not reasonable to expect bulbs to last forever nor to expect a life time warranty on bulbs. Engines don’t last forever, transmissions don’t last forever, nor do tires, nor do bulbs. When my (front) neon bulb went bad, I took the car to the dealership and they replaced the bulb. When I got the bill, I thought “Holy Sh…”, paid the damn bill and continued with what I was doing before, enjoying my car.

    I guess that I am not making many friends here, am I ?
    Dirk

    Alpina #142
    www.bmwccca.com

  12. #12
    Team Z8 Satch's Avatar
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    "... let us hear what you have to say.

    Okay, Ken:

    Dirk makes my point exactly—but I am not one who came to this Z8 bidness by a direct route. I was intent on buying [read: spending Party A's money on] a prewar BMW. You may know that BMW AG is now manufacturing replacement gearboxes for the prewar BMW 328. Huzzah! But one will set you back a little over 15,000 euro. Ever rebuild an engine from the Land Beyond Time? It's sort of like ice-racing, racing, or rallying a Saab Sonett: You actually can make the damn thing faster, but lord, you will spend a pile of money doing it.

    One of the most interesting BMW sagas has to do with the E32 750i (I think that's the right code), the car with the M70 V12. Mannnn, what a car! Mannn, what a price! And when something needs fixing, guess what? The reason most of those cars are owned by mechanics now is that some bozo bought a 750i for chump change and then discovered that he couldn't afford to maintain it properly. Duh. These were, like, $90,000 cars when they were new, and the people who could afford them could also afford to maintain them.

    The Z8 had an MSRP of $128,000 in 2000, and some buyers were paying twice that; you think they blinked twice if something needed fixing? And let's remember that we're the beta-testers: hot-zoot neon lights! ("Wow," I can hear somebody at the 1999 Frankfurt show saying, "I'll bet those things cost a fortune when they go bad!") Run-flat tires—the first generation! A nav system that people will laugh at in ten years!

    Hey, if it's your 401(k), probably the best way to conserve it is to preserve it. Never, ever drive the damn thing; never turn on the lights! Just wait until you're too old and feeble to remember what it was to drive the damn thing—to drive, period—and sell it to some museum that wants turn-of-the-Millennium cutting-edge retro-intentional design. Then throw all the money on the bed and roll around in it; you deserve some pleasure before you die.

    This afternoon I drove the black Z8 from one garage to the other and back, a total of about a quarter mile, tops—and damned if I didn't find myself laughing out loud. God help me, if something (else) goes wrong with this magnificent car, I believe I may have to get a real job—but it will get fixed, and I will drive it again.

    I think some of you people might want to look into the lemon laws of your state and maybe get rid of this car that's giving you so much angst. Then look up first-world problem in your urban dictionary.

  13. #13
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    ^ This. ^

  14. #14
    I agree that things eventually wear out. And I agree that with cars like this, you have to pay to play. What I object to is the sense that I am being gouged when I am charged $2,000.00 for a piece of plastic with some wires and tubes that probably cost BMW 50 bucks. Especially when they were touted as being expected to last the life of the car!

    Bill

  15. #15
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    It's not an issue of swallowing repair costs. I racked up over 70,000 miles on the two Z8's that I have owned and never expected or counted on them being worth anything when I got done just like every other exotic that I have owned and driven hard. It was a pleasant surprise that I was able to have over a decade of fun with this great machine and have it bring me to many countries and meet countless amazing people at little to no depreciative expense. I paid willingly for overpriced routine maintenance issues as well as some expensive parts that one could expect to break or wear out over time. Exotic cars have some exotic expenses - no surprise here after 40 years of dealing with 60's muscle cars to a Lamborghini 12 cylinder engine. My gripe is that BMW has taken (more accurately "forced to take" ) responsibility for defects in hundreds of thousands of 3 and 5 series tail lights yet left us without support. Yes, I said defect in relation to the Z8 tail lights. The problem is not that "gas naturally escaped from the neon" but rather poorly engineered or constructed connections internally in a sealed fixture that we cannot open. Are you aware that neon technology was successfully used on the 1995 Ford Explorer and the 1998 Lincoln? They were the true Beta testers and had ballast problems, but theirs could be replaced for $50. I feel that the only reason BMW has not stepped up is because our numbers are so small and they know that it would be difficult for us to really cause an uproar. Lets face it- I'd be surprised if 10 percent of Z8's are actually driven and have had the problem raise its ugly head, and of those only 10% are aware that it is not an isolated event.
    Like Booster, I feel gouged. Its as if BMW management is taking the attitude that if we can afford the car we can afford any price for any repair. This is OK and common to all of the "luxury" marques for most situations, but not one where a defect is involved. The tail lights, in my opinion, are an example where BMW is ethically (legally?) required to provide a replacement. I wanted BMW to respect us for promoting the Marque and spending what we do on their products by treating us fairly, and that disappointment plus really lousy dealer attitude is what fires me up. Silly me, I still expect other businesses to treat their clients as I have spent a lifetime treating mine.

    Satch and Dirk, with that said let me add that differing opinions cannot spoil a friendship or diminish respect for knowledge and experience. If everyone's friends agreed completely it would be a very boring existence.

  16. #16
    Fun discussion, and everyone's right, except BMW.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  17. #17
    Team Z8 Satch's Avatar
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    Everyone might be right, Andrew, but I am wrong more often than not. I apologize for sticking an oar in. I do think BMW is to be commended for finding a new fabricator for the lighting units. And they may pay more attention to these "heritage" cars now that they're paying more than lip-service attention to their own heritage. It doesn't hurt that some altitudinal BMW executives—like on the director level—own some of these cars.

    I think BMW is quite properly proud of their "507 for the New Millennium," and I think it will continue to have its champions within the company for some time to come. Of course, if it becomes a source of annoyance or embarrassment, they would waste no time in closing the door on the past and insisting that their right and proper vision is toward the future.

    We'll see.

  18. #18
    Z8 Novice tonchum's Avatar
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    I humbly believe the real issue here is one of equity, not simply the cost. I reiterate the issue of all the neon lights existent on this car, as the front signals are equally an issue. But the real question is why BMW considers this to be a problem in Europe, and thereby provides the solution, yet not for the U.S. owners? There appears to be double standard here, especially in consideration of the fact that 45% of the production was made for the U.S..... Are they simply afraid of EU regulation?
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  19. #19
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT TIME

    This is the response I received from BMW. This, BTW, after I stated to BMW that I currently own a Z1 (1991 "magic violet" with just 3k original miles), a crimson red manual six speed fully optioned ($65k) twin turbo Z4 (BMW no longer makes the crimson red nor the manual gearbox in the turbo six Z4) and my Z8 (with just 30k miles).

    "In response, BMW of North America, LLC will not provide any goodwill assistance towards the tail light replacements. Replacement costs is a customer pay matter."

    I have never had to replace a taillight assembly on any of the Ferraris, Porsches, Maseratis or other such cars I've owned. I did have to replace an assembly on an SL65 ($200,000 car) after someone physically broke it but even then the entire assembly was only a few hundred dollars.

    This is a critical safety component. E.g., it is illegal to drive a car in the United States without properly working tail lights or turn signals.

    Damages are not just cost to repair. I have not driven my Z8 for a long time now as it is illegal to do so with its lights not working. That's a mighty tall Loss of Use damage issue. E.g., such exotic cars typically rent out at about $1,000 a day at Budget Rental Cars, etc.

    I am looking for a local (California) owner who wants to be a class representative. I'm an attorney and will prosecute the case, without charge to the class rep. I can't wait to see what discovery of BMW's internal records shows on this issue! I'll bet there are some internal memos where they acknowledge this would be an issue and went forward with the design anyway.

    Who wants to volunteer?

  20. #20
    I'm happy to volunteer on behalf of the owner group, but I no longer have a Z8.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  21. #21
    Team Z8 Satch's Avatar
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    Oh, hell, Andrew, you can always borrow one!

  22. #22
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    I'm happy to volunteer on behalf of the owner group, but I no longer have a Z8.
    Thank you Andrew. Ideally the person should be someone who has a light out and who has not yet repaired it and consequently can't lawfully make use of their Z8. This gives rise to the loss of use claims which result in rather substantial damages.

    Or perhaps someone who replaced one light and then had to replace it again.

    If no one steps forward I can always just sue on my own behalf, and in that event what typically happens is the manufacturer and the party suing them quickly enter into a confidential agreement so no one else benefits other than the party who brought the action.

    I'm tired of not being able to drive my BMW but don't want to spend thousands of dollars to fix a defectively designed tail light. One way or another I'll be taking action soon.

  23. #23
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    I spoke with BMW Customer Relations last week and they confirmed that they will not be offering any form of tail lamp goodwill for North American owners. Oddly enough, the prices for replacement tail lamps has risen.

    Here are all the part numbers for those that may need replacements. We have ordered a few sets to keep on hand so feel free to reach out if you find yourself in a pinch needing parts.

    Driver Tail Light: 63214859157 -- $2,284.80

    Required in conjunction with parts:
    -Covering Panel: 63216914585 --$60.91
    -Lock Panel: 51248238381 -- $135.64
    -Supporting Bumper Ledge -- $51128249697 -- $41.86

    Passenger Side Tail Light: 63216923526 --$3056.66

    Required in conjunction with parts:
    -Covering Panel: 63216914586 --$60.91
    -Lock Panel: 51248238381 -- $135.64
    -Supporting Bumper Ledge -- $51128249698 -- $41.86

  24. #24
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    It seems BMW has judged the Z8 owners in the U.S. to be a complacent bunch. So far seems they are correct....as no one with a current tail light issues seems willing to even be a class representative. Tells me BMW has taken a typical corporate view.....people get hot and bothered, claim they'll take legal action, but then never do.

  25. #25
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    I would... But my lights are working! Someone should.

  26. #26
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norcal View Post
    I would... But my lights are working! Someone should.
    Agreed!

    (Apparently my reply was too short for the system to post, so I am typing this: Wasn't it Shakespeare who said "Brevity is the soul of wit."

  27. #27
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    http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...anther-sedans? Ford is recalling 300,000 cars "...specifically, the solder joints on the module could crack and interrupt power to the headlamps..." Guess if we had a few crashes, instead of pulling our cars off the road, BMW might take notice of the problem.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron's rocket View Post
    http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...anther-sedans? Ford is recalling 300,000 cars "...specifically, the solder joints on the module could crack and interrupt power to the headlamps..." Guess if we had a few crashes, instead of pulling our cars of the road, BMW might take notice of the problem.
    I wonder if anyone has complained about this widespread Z8 issue to the DOT? Perhaps the DOT will find a safety feature design defect issue significant....as well as BMWs efforts to sweep the matter under the carpet here in the U.S. while remedying the matter in Europe.

  29. #29
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    At the risk of being being tarred and feathered I wanted to offer a different view on the topic. BMW sold us our Z8 15 years ago for $135k. Today after years of enjoyment they are worth well over $200k some approaching $300k and rising. A rare Alpina sold in Germany for $759k. Some owners in Europe have every right to be pissed off because many cars have been stuck in their garage for a number of years because of faulty tail lights. In the US tail lights have always been available either from BMW or on the used parts market. I recent bought a working set for $700 on eBay. Under the circumstances that BMW wants to offer an olive branch to EU owners who suffered the blunt of the problem makes sense. As for the rest of us, a revised and hopefully defect free tail light will soon be available, albeit at a high price but this is still pocket change compared to the appreciation of our cars. In this context pissing BMW off with the filing of official complaints will not serve us and in the long run. We need BMW'S continued support to preserve the value of our cars more than BMW needs us for the so called "halo effet". Let's stop whining because we can't have our cake and eat it too.
    ------------------------
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    Bruno

    2003 Stratus/Crema

  30. #30
    A valid perspective, Bruno. Yes, we are privileged to be able to own these cars, and you are correct that the cost of the lamps is nominal compared to the value of a Z8, but nobody wants to feel they are being taken advantage of. Personally, I don't feel BMW necessarily owes us replacement taillights gratis, but I do feel we are getting hosed when we are charged $2200.00 for a lamp. A reasonable compromise would be to charge something closer to their marginal cost of production, which I suspect is considerably below the current retail price.

    Best wishes for a Merry Christmas!

    Bill

  31. #31
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    Dirk, your point makes no sense. You know how often Ferrari or Lamborghini owners have to replace tail light assemblies? Hardly ever. In fact, I know of none and I know many. Plus, we are not talking about replacing a bulb, we are talking about an entire over priced assembly. Again, we are not talking about a $500k Aventador but a $135k BMW. A pair of tail lights should not set an owner back many thousands of dollars....which is precisely the case here. These are defectively designed lamps. Cool idea that simply does not work well as designed and manufactured. You can buy new Ferrari 458 and F12 tailights for under $1k.....and they don't fail! (People replace them for physical/accident damage reasons.) F12 with options cost three times what a Z8 cost new and is far rarer yet its tail lights don't fail and replacement cost is a fraction of that for the BMW.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bclaude View Post
    At the risk of being being tarred and feathered I wanted to offer a different view on the topic. BMW sold us our Z8 15 years ago for $135k. Today after years of enjoyment they are worth well over $200k some approaching $300k and rising. A rare Alpina sold in Germany for $759k. Some owners in Europe have every right to be pissed off because many cars have been stuck in their garage for a number of years because of faulty tail lights. In the US tail lights have always been available either from BMW or on the used parts market. I recent bought a working set for $700 on eBay. Under the circumstances that BMW wants to offer an olive branch to EU owners who suffered the blunt of the problem makes sense. As for the rest of us, a revised and hopefully defect free tail light will soon be available, albeit at a high price but this is still pocket change compared to the appreciation of our cars. In this context pissing BMW off with the filing of official complaints will not serve us and in the long run. We need BMW'S continued support to preserve the value of our cars more than BMW needs us for the so called "halo effet". Let's stop whining because we can't have our cake and eat it too.
    Bruno, so if a car appreciates in value, which by the way proves to be temporary as the values are now down, your logic is the manufacturer is absolved from their responsibilities if the car goes up in value? So with this same logic if Aston Martin's are built like crap that's okay because of their significant depreciation??? That makes no sense. Having owned older Ferraris, decades old, I've never once replaced a tail light. Check the poll results. Nearly half the people either had to replace a tail light or currently have a tail light issue! On top of that most of the car were hardly ever driven and all have low miles! This is not a wear and tear issue.....it's a crap design issue. Now, it would be okay if BMW took a chance with neon lights and in the end the idea didn't work out so well PROVIDED BMW stood behind their product and said, you know, we took a crack at it but it did not work....now we'll make it right. This BMW DOES NOT DO! At the Peterson Museum event one of the forum members told me a story how he bought a Z8 from a BMW dealer who said the car had never been in an accident. Turns out the car was basically totaled! They flat out lied to him. I too have had an experience where a BMW flat out lied about a car I purchased. Let's not forget Gore v. BMW. The reality is BMW let's its dealers get away with these business practices. By comparison, I've heard McLaren had quality issues when their cars first started rolling out. But I've also heard McLaren worked hard to please their customers, even doing free upgrades routinely. BMW is not standing behind their Halo product. Moreover, we are talking about a critical safety component here.

  33. #33
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bclaude View Post
    At the risk of being being tarred and feathered I wanted to offer a different view on the topic. BMW sold us our Z8 15 years ago for $135k. Today after years of enjoyment they are worth well over $200k some approaching $300k and rising. A rare Alpina sold in Germany for $759k. Some owners in Europe have every right to be pissed off because many cars have been stuck in their garage for a number of years because of faulty tail lights. In the US tail lights have always been available either from BMW or on the used parts market. I recent bought a working set for $700 on eBay. Under the circumstances that BMW wants to offer an olive branch to EU owners who suffered the blunt of the problem makes sense. As for the rest of us, a revised and hopefully defect free tail light will soon be available, albeit at a high price but this is still pocket change compared to the appreciation of our cars. In this context pissing BMW off with the filing of official complaints will not serve us and in the long run. We need BMW'S continued support to preserve the value of our cars more than BMW needs us for the so called "halo effet". Let's stop whining because we can't have our cake and eat it too.
    Bruno, so if a car appreciates in value, which by the way proves to be temporary as the values are now down, your logic is the manufacturer is absolved from their responsibilities if the car goes up in value? So with this same logic if Aston Martin's are built like crap that's okay because of their significant depreciation??? That makes no sense. Having owned older Ferraris, decades old, I've never once replaced a tail light. Check the poll results. Nearly half the people either had to replace a tail light or currently have a tail light issue! On top of that most of the car were hardly ever driven and all have low miles! This is not a wear and tear issue.....it's a crap design issue. Now, it would be okay if BMW took a chance with neon lights and in the end the idea didn't work out so well PROVIDED BMW stood behind their product and said, you know, we took a crack at it but it did not work....now we'll make it right. This BMW DOES NOT DO! At the Peterson Museum event one of the forum members told me a story how he bought a Z8 from a BMW dealer who said the car had never been in an accident. Turns out the car was basically totaled! They flat out lied to him. I too have had an experience where a BMW flat out lied about a car I purchased. Let's not forget Gore v. BMW. The reality is BMW let's its dealers get away with these business practices. By comparison, I've heard McLaren had quality issues when their cars first started rolling out. But I've also heard McLaren worked hard to please their customers, even doing free upgrades routinely. BMW is not standing behind their Halo product. Moreover, we are talking about a critical safety component here. Time to contact the NHTSA and see what they say.

  34. #34
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    I just spoke with NHTSA. First, there is indeed a manufacturers statement regarding a light recall issue but it does not state anything more than this. WHAT IS TROUBLING IS THERE ARE NO COMPLAINTS LISTED FROM OWNERS ABOUT THE TAIL LIGHT ISSUE! I've just filed my complaint (takes 72 hours to post on the website). Please, everyone with this issue take 5 minutes to make your complaint to NHTSA. They take your information over the phone. It is quick and easy. All you need is your VIN number. Call 1-888-327-4236. I chose not to make a selection as they will have an operator answer the phone if you have a rotary, i.e., don't select an option. The more complaints we file with NHTSA....which will appear on SaferCar.gov, the more likely BMW will take us seriously.

  35. #35
    Team Z8
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    Well done! Buying the "Performance Kit" was an insult, I look forward to BMW eventually being accountable for this faulty design rather then passing the expense to their owners.

  36. #36
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    OWNERS PLEASE CONTACT NHTSA AT THIS EMAIL ADDRESS!!!!! YOUR Z8s SAFETY & LONG TERM VALUE IS AT STAKE

    I just spoke to Randy with NHTSA. He says I am the only Z8 owner to file a 5 minute complaint to NHTSA!

    PLEASE SEND HIM AN EMAIL AND TELL HIM IF YOU HAD A NEON LIGHT FAILURE ON YOUR Z8! It will take you less than 5 minutes to send Randy an email at [email protected]


    [email protected]


    Fellow Z8 owners out there.....If you have a light problem you must report it to NHTSA otherwise BMW knows nothing will ever be done about it.

    So if you like the idea of paying thousands of dollars PER LAMP each time one fails....AND THEY WILL FAIL due to their defective design....then don't contact NHTSA.

    If you like lowering the value of your Z8 then do not complain to NHTSA! Yes, your Z8 is worth less as people who would be buyers hear of these tail light issues and how it could cost thousands to repair and this is a repair that will have to be done sooner or later...and over again!

    All a potential buyer needs to do is read from this Z8 forum and they will be less inclined to buy the car or at least pay a lower price. This is exactly what happened with the 355 Ferrari market as owners complained about defects but never took action. Instead, they spend thousands to fix the design defect issues and potential buyers hearing of these issues shied away from buying 355s or offered lower prices.

    BMW owners in Europe were apparently much more vocal to the powers that be over there so BMW took action.

    If you were BMW USA and realized NHTSA won't do anything would you spend your money replacing Z8 taillights?

    If you want action take action!

    If you want to preserve or even boost the value of your Z8 take action!

    If you don't want to spend $4k or more replacing a defectively designed tail light.....and then later another $4k replacing the other one when it eventually fails, contact NHTSA!

    If you don't want someone rear ending you and potentially killing you, your passenger or the people who rear end you should your light fail when you don't know it, then contact NHTSA!



    [email protected]

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