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Thread: Current Alpina values

  1. #1
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    Current Alpina values

    Can anyone advise on current Alpina values. I have seen asking prices anywhere from $250k to $305k in the US. I know mileage and color are big factors but are they really trading at these numbers? If so it may be time to update the insurance.
    Also any estimate how many are left in the US? Thanks John

  2. #2
    I'd say that of the 450 originally imported to the U.S. and Canada maybe 150 to 200 are left, but it maybe less as I have seen so many head back myself.

    A 2000 mile black-crema car in Vegas is looking for 300k, and I know of two buyers with deep pockets seriously circling it, so yes, 300k is a good estimate for a mint car, but a 100 mile car in the right color with all the bits could get up to 400k, maybe more.

    When it comes to classic car values China is a great unknown. If they change the laws to allow classics to be imported and driven on the streets over there that may alter the values considerably. Their appetite for classic cars may not match their appetite for fine wine, but as the love of cars infects the nation, I suspect the fascination with the history of motoring will follow. As we know the number 8 is considered the most auspicious number in China, so if the red curtain falls allowing classics in, I think you'll see the Z8's value climb in very short order.

    As for future values, all I can really say is that I'd expect the Z8 will follow the Enzo (3.2mm) and the Ford GT (900k) at about the same percentage of value. If the market keeps rising or if it falls I suspect that those are the two cars that we'll always be benchmarked against. As of today absolutely mint examples of each seem to be here.....

    Enzo ~ 3mm
    Ford GT ~ 900
    Alpina ~ 300
    Z8 ~ 250

    So we seem pegged at very roughly 1/10 of an Enzo and 1/3 of an FGT, and my guess is that we'll stay there regardless of the market's rise and fall, but there is always the possibility that 8 effect of a new Chinese collector culture could change the balance in our favor.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  3. #3
    Sport Button On lamakdaddy's Avatar
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    I lost the Las Vegas car at 272k used...they sold it at 275+

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    Well, there's another black-and-tan car we won't see on the road! I suppose collectors are useful, because they keep the values up, but it was essential when choosing the car for Party A—you know it isn't my car because it's named Buffy!—that it be a car with enough miles that driving it wouldn't diminish its value.

  5. #5
    Yes, absolutely with the collectors we wouldn't have an appreciating asset, but in doing the drives and recording them here (and in Roundel ;-) we are the ones truely creating the history and the mystique of the Z8.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  6. #6
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    Apparently Party A and Buffy will not be the only Z8 presence among the Vintage & Classic crowd in Florida (fortunately, the BMW V&CCCA allows all Z cars to play); there are some five Zedates on the list! So while it's intended as a story on a vintage tour, I suspect that a few photos of a certain Fisker-designed classic might appear in print....

  7. #7
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Looking forward to the coverage.

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    It would be rational if the difference between a car with less than 5000 miles and a car with greater than 25000 miles would be $20000. But instead is sometimes over $50000! Makes you want to buy a second high mileage car to enjoy! But then again that would drive the prices of high mileage cars even higher!! This is common among ford gt owners having one "in the wrapper" and one to enjoy!!!

  9. #9
    I was guilty of doing the same thing until the economy and common sense both got the better of me!

    Satch, looking very forward to the Florida coverage, I'd really wanted to be there, but my new love takes me to New Zealand instead.
    Andrew Macpherson

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    Andrew take some awesome photos like you always do! I was there last December, truly an enchanting place!!

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    I just sold Alpina #048 to a Dutch buyer for $180,000. It's in a CFR Rinkens container and headed to Rotterdam for conversion to EU specs. Very nice 32,000 mile example with fresh headlights and PP installed, coffee table book and 95% of the items that should be with the car. No plastic key, no valet key, no bag for the top boot, and no rear window felt protector. No accident or damage history aside from lower front spoiler respray. Needs rear window and string repair but otherwise virtually concours condition. He's now in for 21% VAT, 10% Export? Import? fees, shipping (incredibly inexpensive believe it or not) and whatever the conversion to EU specs will cost. He will be in almost $240,000 before EU work. So there is a genuine Alpina value, as of last week


    Gar

  12. #12
    And as I mentioned in Gar's other thread, I just sent a Black/Red with 12k miles overseas for 220k, and that one in Vegas also went to the EU for 295k.

    Since we're down to around 100 Alpinas in the US, I would advise anyone selling one to not accept less than $220k now, and if you have a 2k miler then nothing under 300k.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  13. #13
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    Sounds like good advice! The taxes and fees they have to pay to bring a car in are incredible though. I suppose when you want something, and the quantity is limited, you'll pay what you have to pay.



    Gar

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    Thanks for all the feedback guys. One last question. How difficult will it be for these buyers to ever bring a Alpina or any Z8 for that matter back to the US after a EU conversion? I think once they have left they're gone forever. I have let go too many nice cars slip thru my hands and enter the collectible stratosphere over the years (Ferrari 288 GTO, F40 ) I didn't buy this car to spec on a upside but deep down I'm pretty excited about this car and where it's headed. It's my little peace of art. And I plan on driving and enjoying it. Thanks Again, John

  15. #15
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    One last question. How difficult will it be for these buyers to ever bring a Alpina or any Z8 for that matter back to the US after a EU conversion?
    No change......currently 4 former US Alpinas for sale: $288, $299,$306, $345K....any interest ;-) ?
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  16. #16
    In the same way that an EU VIN car can now go back to the EU with much more ease than a US VIN, so in the fullness of time (and a collapse of the Euro;-) it will be far simpler to reimport a US registered VIN back to the US.

    However, measured in Z8 Values, I'd say the Euro will have to sink to around 75c to make it worth the consideration.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  17. #17
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    so in the fullness of time (and a collapse of the Euro;-) it will be far simpler to reimport a US registered VIN back to the US.
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  18. #18
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    Dirk

    Alpina #142
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  19. #19
    Team Z8 Satch's Avatar
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    I have been trying to figure out Dirk's license plate for about half an hour now...

    Is that you, de Gruen? Is this some sort of Dutch humor?!

  20. #20
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satch View Post
    I have been trying to figure out Dirk's license plate for about half an hour now...
    Try harder Satch.
    Dirk

    Alpina #142
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  21. #21
    Team Z8 Satch's Avatar
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    Oh, I get it... well, sort of. #142, and it's an AL... pina.

    Orange?

  22. #22
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    More Z8 and Alpina prices

    On mobile.de, among the 50 Z8s (a red one US-spec pretty cheap at €110,000, about $128,000) is a black Alpina for €179,000... under $210,000 at today's exchange rate. Go get 'em!

  23. #23
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satch View Post
    Oh, I get it... well, sort of. #142, and it's an AL... pina.

    Orange?
    Nah. Try again
    Clue: it is Alpina related.
    Dirk

    Alpina #142
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  24. #24
    Watching Barrett Jackson last night while putsing around the house, while discussing the incredible values the Ford GT is bringing the announcers mentioned how the Z8 is another modern day car that is skyrocketing in value and bringing more and more in sales.
    Skip Hammerman

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  25. #25
    That's the kind of press we like!!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  26. #26
    Team Z8 zilver8's Avatar
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    Anyone know what this car sold for? It was auctioned off on 1/24/15.

  27. #27
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    I saw a bit of the auction and heard that it sold in the mid 190's.
    2002 red/crema Z8, gone, but not forgotten

  28. #28
    It sold for $197K.
    Skip Hammerman

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  29. #29
    That seems to be between bang on market to a whisker under today.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  30. #30
    Is the 197 the hammer price or does that include a buyer's premium of 10%?
    My Best,

    Ed

    2002 Z8 Jet Black//Sport Red
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  31. #31
    That's the hammer price so the buyer paid $216,700.
    Skip Hammerman

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  32. #32
    Team Z8 zilver8's Avatar
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    I know that Alpina prices have started to go up but are these guys for real? Marshall Goldman has 5 Alpina cars ranging in price from $369,900 to $398,900. Are these realistic prices?
     

  33. #33
    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zilver8 View Post
    I know that Alpina prices have started to go up but are these guys for real? Marshall Goldman has 5 Alpina cars ranging in price from $369,900 to $398,900. Are these realistic prices?
    In 2017 maybe
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  34. #34
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    These ones don't go to Europe And I really wonder if the difference between an ordinary Z8 and an Alpina (except for the limited numbers) justifies this great price difference.
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  35. #35
    Ton- There is no such thing as an "ordinary Z8"!

    Bill

  36. #36
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    You are right Bill.....they are "out of the ordinary"
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  37. #37
    Marshall Goldman may have enough great cars to actually sway the market, and as we enter the 2015 buying season these could well become the standard by which all other prices are set.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    Marshall Goldman may have enough great cars to actually sway the market, and as we enter the 2015 buying season these could well become the standard by which all other prices are set.
    There are so few for sale these days I guess if you corner the market you can set the price. Brilliant!
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  39. #39
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    That's very interesting about the Alpina's. What estimates are there of Z8's originally in the U.S. and Canada compared to now?

  40. #40
    It's an absolute guesstimate, but based on the sales I've been involved in and known about I'd say 60-70% of all cars sold in the last 4-5 years have been sold out of country, so at this point we could be down to as few as 1000-1200 Z8's & Alpinas combined left in the USA. There could be as many as 1500-1700, but certainly no more than that.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  41. #41
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    In the last few years these cars have had a serge in price and likely because lots have disappeared. Europe has prices far above north America and it's tempting to sell them for the big $$. I want mine but the miles creep up cause I can't leave it sit. It's always a struggle. Mileage over pleasure.

  42. #42
    Yep, same for all of us. I'm about to hit 25k, and certainly feel concerned about the added miles every time I do a drive, but as soon as the roads gets twisty and fun, that and all my other worries fly away in the wind. 😃
    Andrew Macpherson

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  43. #43
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Drive it... Pleasure... Unless it's an investment... I didn't buy it to make a buck, just to feed my dreams and enhance my enjoyment of driving. But I have to say, recent prices make it tempting... I'd like to think prices will continue upward as I rack up miles, offsetting my "devaluation" over time. If someday it has 100,000 mi and is still worth what I paid... That's a huge win! Cake and drive it too!

  44. #44
    Freedom Ouray's Avatar
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    I know that I sold my Alpina too soon, and regrettably not at today's prices, but with the Euro down so drastically vs. the $ in the last twelve months I would expect the the rapid price increases of the last 36 months would slow down in the near future. No doubt it will continue with time, but imho the recent inflation will stop for the time being. This is no different then the cut in prices that many foreign luxury manufacturers of items like watches have just started to announce in the US.

  45. #45
    I think you could be right, but I also think that our cars have established themselves as having a significant place in the final generation of raw and simple petrol-engined sportscars. The current and upcoming ones are all paddle shifted hybrids which I personally don't believe will have the long term collectible appeal of the cars like ours.
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  46. #46
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Kevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    I think you could be right, but I also think that our cars have established themselves as having a significant place in the final generation of raw and simple petrol-engined sportscars. The current and upcoming ones are all paddle shifted hybrids which I personally don't believe will have the long term collectible appeal of the cars like ours.
    Everything is relative. What I mean by this is, we grew up with these cars a lament their passing, as such we collect them as they are the last of an era. However there is no doubt in my mind the cars we criticize so much right now will be viewed as cars which revolutionized the automotive industry, and will be collected for being the first of a new era.

    Look at the Porsche 959 for example, for years you could get a decent example (in Europe, in the U.S canepa kept the prices artificially high) for $2-250k, this was because people viewed the car as being too plain, technologically advanced and too difficult to maintain. As a result any serious collector would turn to the F40, which was more old school. However only in the past few years have people started to appreciate the 959 for being the first truly Modern Supercar and prices now reflect that.
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  47. #47
    Team Z8 zilver8's Avatar
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    At $500k, this car makes the +$350k Marshall Goldman cars look like a great bargain!!!

    http://www.gatewayclassiccars.com/ho...lpina-S98.html
     

  48. #48
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Wow! That is quite a price... Hope they get it!

  49. #49
    Absolutely, it's great for all of us!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  50. #50
    Z8 Novice adsapp's Avatar
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    2015/2016 values?

    As a long time BMW enthusiast, I have been turned to by a friend for help selling his Z8 Alpina. Since the market for these cars seems to be all over the board, I thought that I would turn to the collective knowledge of this group to get some current advice. My friend has recently been dealing with some serious health issues and (since the Z8 is no longer new) has decided that he wants a 'new' car. So the Z8 must go to make room for more.

    The first, and probably most important question, is price. I see quite a variety of prices for these cars on the market today. From the (probably high mileage) car in NY being advertised for about $140k to the Texas dealer asking $465k. The numbers in this thread are getting a little stale, so if anybody has seen recent sales and can give me some guidance as to what to ask, I would be sincerely grateful.

    The car that will be coming up is originally a Southern California lease car for my friend's business partner. When the partner tired of the car, my friend took over the lease pmts and then bought the car at the end of the lease. It has been garaged in northern Nevada for about 10 years. Current mileage is about 6,900 and the car is in excellent shape, silver & red, with all the goodies. I have ridden in it frequently over the years and even had the pleasure of driving it on a couple of occasions. For the purpose of this discussion, let's assume that it is perfect.

    The second question is market. I see that many cars seem to be heading back to the EU. Does anyone have experience with the best way to access that market? I have a few 'word of mouth' contacts and will be putting together a nice website for viewing but other suggestions are welcome.

    Thank you in advance for any thoughts.
       

  51. #51
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Can't help you with pricing, but, awesome car!

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by zilver8 View Post
    At $500k, this car makes the +$350k Marshall Goldman cars look like a great bargain!!!

    http://www.gatewayclassiccars.com/ho...lpina-S98.html
    He seems pretty optimistic.

    I'm still looking after a Black/Black Alpina that isn't quite at 100 miles yet Not for sale, but you lot will be first to know if it is.



    Gar

  53. #53
    I do a lot of helping connect owners and buyers through the board, and be happy to help you on this one too - my fee is 1% of the sale paid to me by the seller.

    I'd put your price to make a brisk sale right around the 275k mark, if you want to be patient then maybe a tops of 300k. There are several cars at Marshall-Goldman that they have had listed at over 300k but those have sat for over 12 months, and they are a very liquid dealership and can afford to hold stock till they get their prices, so I would say that they are defining the absolute market top at the moment.
     
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  54. #54
    Z8 Novice adsapp's Avatar
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    Interesting. Thanks for the replies.

    Now I'm seeing the Marshall Goldman cars on eBay for between $299k and $326k. Maybe they are re-thinking their strategy?

    -Allan

  55. #55
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    Don't you think the current prices (BMW & Alpinas) are overestimated? I've never seen so many z8's on the market in 10 years. There are currently 57 of them for sale on mobile.de. Isn't it a sign that they don't sale easily? And I guess the American market follows this European trend. Do you think their values will go on increasing?

  56. #56
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    I think it's more a sign that owners want to sell while prices are at all time highs.
    Marty

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  57. #57
    Compared to Ferraris, air-cooled Porsches, Aston Martins, E-Type Jags, Ford Gts, Shelbys, etc., the Z8 may arguably still have some room for upward price movement. The high volume of Z8s and Alpinas available for sale is no doubt due to long term owners deciding that this is a good time to get out of their car and turn a nice profit. If you believe in the basic economic principle of supply and demand, as the available supply grows and begins to exceed the market demand, prices should flatten out and perhaps eventually decline.

    Being that I bought my car for the satisfaction of owning and driving one of my all-time favorite automobiles and not as an investment, I try not to get too distracted by the rising values. The collector car market is much like real estate, it cycles up and down, but over the long term it trends upwards. My guess is sometime in the future these cars will be worth multiples of what they go for today, but it will take many years. In the meantime, my plan is to drive and enjoy it. Worse case, I am certain I will get back my original cost, which is more than you can say for most automobiles.

    Bill

  58. #58
    Team Z8 Satch's Avatar
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    Remember Link's Law: A Thing Is Worth Exactly What Somebody Else Will Pay You For It. I suppose there's a corollary about those who simply won't sell. You could not get Buffy away from Party A without a gun and a lot of alcohol.

    Advertised prices are the ask, of course; I would like to know what the actual barrelhead price is on some of these cars. And I take some comfort in knowing that créma always rises to the top. When I see silver-over-black cars selling in the twos, I derive a certain satisfaction in knowing that owning a black-over-créma Z8 is probably a safe investment, and certainly more fun to drive than a few shares of Google or AT&T.

    By the way,we registered Buffy today in California. YIKES! I thought the Governator slashed those fees!

  59. #59
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    I have a gun and lots of alcohol! And yes, crema rises to the top!

  60. #60
    Team Z8 Satch's Avatar
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    But Norcal, you already HAVE a clone of Buffy!

    Do you call it Biff?


    : )

  61. #61
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    I've had it since 01. I a can assure you it is no "crema puff". However, it is sweet! Twins could be fun!

  62. #62
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    Always interesting to see what buyers are willing to pay for an Alpina: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-BMW-Z8-...-/161864507203 The reserve price was not met.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by vzben View Post
    Always interesting to see what buyers are willing to pay for an Alpina: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-BMW-Z8-...-/161864507203 The reserve price was not met.
    Wow. That is rather surprising considering the current market.

  64. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by vzben View Post
    Always interesting to see what buyers are willing to pay for an Alpina.
    For some reason, Z8s never sell on eBay. Wonder if that's true of all hyper-expensive cars?
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