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Thread: 2003 Alpina 048 (#61933) - sold - $180,000

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    2003 Alpina 048 (#61933) - sold - $180,000

    Priced and officially for sale

    Thoughts?

    2003 BMW Alpina Z8 Photos by biggar1111 | Photobucket

    When viewing the photos, click on the little magnifying glass in the bottom right corner not once, but twice to view in full size and resolution. I don't think I missed much but I am proud to show this in person to anyone interested.


    Gar
     

  2. #2
    Z8Mania
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    Car looks great. I bet it will bring strong money.

  3. #3
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Doug Dolan's Avatar
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    Pictures of top part way down on Page 6 shows what appears to be a broken "string" on the driver's side. No picture of passenger side, so don't know about that one. If that's the case, it should be addressed before any damage is done to the convertible top.
    Doug Dolan
    61297 - Stratus / Crema

  4. #4
    Good catch Doug. The car looks super clean and complete. If you want to turn back the clock to 2003 I would consider:
    1) Checking and if necessary replacing the flashlight next to the CD changer. It's an inexpensive fix.
    2) Repair the seat back clip shown in the pictures. There are great DIY instructions to be found on this site.
    3) Replace the rear window.
    4) Dye/replace sun faded headliner of the soft top.
    5) Lower grill was missing, but you probably took it off to clean the radiator.

    I don't recall seeing a picture of the dash. Is the leather pulling away?

    GLWTS!
    My Best,

    Ed

    2002 Z8 Jet Black//Sport Red
    2012 SLS AMG Obsidian Black/Classic Red

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    Quote Originally Posted by EDEZ8 View Post
    Good catch Doug. The car looks super clean and complete. If you want to turn back the clock to 2003 I would consider:
    1) Checking and if necessary replacing the flashlight next to the CD changer. It's an inexpensive fix.
    2) Repair the seat back clip shown in the pictures. There are great DIY instructions to be found on this site.
    3) Replace the rear window.
    4) Dye/replace sun faded headliner of the soft top.
    5) Lower grill was missing, but you probably took it off to clean the radiator.

    I don't recall seeing a picture of the dash. Is the leather pulling away?

    GLWTS!
    Ed,

    I took that photo to show the broken cord and yes, it will be repaired. As soon as the owner has the new rear window in hand, it's going to Autos International in Escondido for install, and I will also have them dye the headliner and fix the cord while it's in there. Lower grill was off for radiator cleaning, thanks to information from this very site, and the seatback is repaired and perfect again, once again thanks to this site the job was very easy. I just took photos while I had it apart so I could show the owner. There should be some photos of the dash among the gazillion I took. It's perfect though. The flashlight, while there, and not leaking, does not work, so yes, that should probably be replaced, or re-batteried if possible. Correct, numbers matching sticker is on the way for the coffee table book. I'm trying to acquire a new Alpina doorjamb sticker as the one in there isn't perfect, but getting that sticker might be a stretch.
    Once those few items are complete, this car is quite literally concours-ready. It's that nice. If someone wanted to really go nuts, they could fix the small crack in the center bottom of the front spoiler, but we're leaving it alone. It's causing no problems, and you can't see it unless you're looking under the car.
    I paid special attention to photograph any imperfections I could find. I never encourage anyone to buy a car sight unseen, but I try to take enough photos so the personal inspection is surprising in a good way instead of there being any disappointments. I want people to be absolutely thrilled with whatever car they buy through me, and to know exactly what they're getting through and through.



    Gar

  6. #6
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    It will be interesting to see the negative effect of the relatively high mileage (31,863 miles) on the Alpina, which otherwise appears in good condition.

    Not sure if I would have shown the helmet in the picture album as it indicates serious track time, or was it meant as showing an "imperfection" ?
    Dirk

    Alpina #142
    www.bmwccca.com

  7. #7
    Z8Mania
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    I don't consider the miles to be extremely high but its certainly not collector miles. If the car is 10 years old thats only 3k a year.

    The helmets were given to participants of the Z8 Driving Experience- where we got to thrash BMW's Press Z8s- not our own What fun!!!!!!!!!

  8. #8
    I had a buyer for this car at 205, but I was under the mistaken impression it was an 8k mile car. My buyer ideally wants a sub 5k mile car, and is willing to pay what it takes, but he wouldn't touch this one despite its immaculate preparation. I tell this only because I think we're beginning to see a real divergence between collectors and drivers, and with these miles this is really now a drivers car, no matter how perfect.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  9. #9
    Z8Mania
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    I agree, but I also think Europeans are less miles sensitive and over time that 30k miles won't seem as bad. However, thats speculation to the future. I think you are right on the button for today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkZ8 View Post
    It will be interesting to see the negative effect of the relatively high mileage (31,863 miles) on the Alpina, which otherwise appears in good condition.

    Not sure if I would have shown the helmet in the picture album as it indicates serious track time, or was it meant as showing an "imperfection" ?
    Dirk,

    Like Jerry (Z8Mania) was saying, the helmet is from the Z8 driving experience. This car has never been tracked. He's also got his helmet from a similar M5 program on the shelf as well. The Z8 helmet is included with the car though I think Andrew is pretty much on the money in terms of current value as well. Hopefully my client will agree. It's a long road trying to sell a car that is priced well above current market. He's been willing to make the investment in terms of headlights, PP, proper detailing, etc... and is expecting a decent return. Thanks everyone for the input.



    Gar

  11. #11
    Just curious, what's the consensus as to what range constitutes collector mileage (0-?) and driver miles (?-?)?
    C.A. Cardenas (AKA Dan)
    2003 (last one?) Z8 - Hellrot / Sport Rot
    Original Owner - Munich Tourist Delivery
    -- Others --
    1988 M6 - 32K mi. - Original Owner
    1989 DINAN 750iL - 73K mi. - Original Owner
    1998 M3 - 63K mi. - Original Owner
    2015 X5 (F15) Diesel - Daily Driver

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    Hard to say. I think at this point, anything over 15K or so is probably driver. In another decade or so, they'll likely all be more collectible. It's pretty rare that anyone cares what the original mileage is on a Ferrari Daytona. Of course there will always be "benchmark" cars out there. I would think that the mileage for truly benchmark cars will always be extremely low, like under 5,000 miles. I have four Z8's in a collection I look after and the highest mileage one sports just 600. The other three are right around 100. Those are pretty special examples though, and it's actually a shame that they're not out there being enjoyed. At this point, they may never be



    Gar

  13. #13
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    The owner may consider having the valve covers replaced or powder-coated.
    Dirk

    Alpina #142
    www.bmwccca.com

  14. #14
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    There are many variables to what constitutes collector mileage and driver mileage.

    Extreme low miles is not necessarily a good thing. Mechanical devices don't like to just sit.
    The quality of the miles is equally important. Five hundred 1-mile trips to the super market is different five 100-mile drives to open up and "breath" the engine and get all components at operating temperature.
    How the car has been stored is important. I'd rather have a car with 30,000 miles that has been kept in a climate-controlled environment than one with 5,000 miles that has been kept in the drive way or in a hot and muffy garage (unlikely scenario for Z8 owners) or close to the sea.

    And the list goes on ...
    Dirk

    Alpina #142
    www.bmwccca.com

  15. #15
    True enough, but right now, today, in the market for our cars I'd say sub 5k is the real collector market place, with a healthy premium for anything under 1k.

    This is by no means concrete, it's a total ballpark guesstimate for a perfect 100 point car with all the goodies based on what I'm seeing today.

    Miles............0>500..........500>1000............2000>5000.............5000>10k.........10k>20k...........20k>30k...........30k>40k.........40k>60k

    Z8..............300,000.........250,000...............200,000.................180,000.............160,000............150,000...........140,000..........135,000
    .
    Alpina.........350,000.........285,000...............230,000.................205,000.............185,000............175,000...........160,000..........140,000


    Of course there will be exceptions to this, like Gar's Alpina, which is being concourse prepared, and the level of finishing required to bring it to better than Pebble Beach Gold Ribbon will add $20+ to it's value IMHO. (figuring that would be the cost to a new owner of doing all the things done at the price of spares)
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

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    Car will be listed at a 205K asking price. I spoke with the owner tonight. He's not in a hurry and decided to test the waters with a strong number. There are not a whole lot of Alpinas for sale on the planet, and this is an exceptionally nice car without any paintwork or accident history, save the front lower spoiler which was repainted at some point. A full price offer will include the new rear window and cord repair, which has not yet been completed. Until that is completed, I suppose it can be a point of negotiation. I just wanted to get this thing on the market. Not expecting a ton of action at that number, but if the heart wants what the heart wants, then this can be yours in very short order.

    Clean CA title, current registration, and ready to roll. Probably going to pop it up on Ebay to get some exposure, but I promised Andrew I would offer it here first. No shenanigans. Nothing to hide. Have a question, you'll get and answer.

    One owner. Just under 32,000 miles. All services since new at BMW of Encinitas. Performance package and brand new headlights installed earlier this month at BMW of San Diego. Needs nothing save the aforementioned rear window. Can't find valet key, plastic emergency key, or silver front license plate holder (yet). Don't have a flannel rear window protector or canvas top boot bag (yet). Car is located in Carlsbad, California. I am available pretty much anytime to show the car to prospective buyers or their representative. I only need to coordinate with the owner as it is home in his garage, under a cover, waiting.

    Picture link in the first post on this thread.


    Gar

    Greggory Park
    garscars@cox.net
    760.497.1015

  17. #17
    You've done a great job prepping the car and documenting the gaps to return the car as delivered. GLWTS!
    My Best,

    Ed

    2002 Z8 Jet Black//Sport Red
    2012 SLS AMG Obsidian Black/Classic Red

  18. #18
    I really, really hope you achieve it, it will be wonderful news for all of us!
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  19. #19
    Z8Mania
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    I don't think the asking price is so crazy given what we've seen lately.

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    I heard from Andy at BMW of San Diego today and he has my vin sticker for the book! He also was able to acquire a new Alpina specific doorjamb sticker that goes below the vin sticker in the jamb. The one on this car isn't perfect and I figured it didn't hurt to ask. The vin stickers I had him get for my clients' books a few years ago came to me at no cost. They are no longer freebies, but only about $20 so not a big deal.


    The vin sticker in the doorjamb is also not absolutely perfect, but I'm happy to have one new one for the book. The one below is the one I'm replacing.




    Gar

  21. #21
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    I've never understood the appeal of the Alpina. Having owned a Cobra and XKEs and having been up close and personal with several 507s since the late 1980s, the idea of an automatic gearbox in a "traditional" roadster seemed like an oxymoron to me. I mean, we all know Steve McQueen famously drove his XKSS around town which was basically a race car on the street. Can we picture him driving an Alpina with a slush box? I'm sorry, but to me the word "sport" in sports car means just that....the driver shifts and drives the car with his body.....left leg on clutch, right on gas, hand on wheel, hand on gear shift. I don't recall seeing any 507 or Cobra automatic cars and E types with autotransmissions are not worth what manual transmissions are worth. And as Clarkson says, the Alpina makes LESS HP than the "regular" Z8. The Z8 gets its doors blown off by a contemporary mid engine Italian car on a twisty road. But that's not the point of the Z8, right? It's about the engagement. Hence, the auto gearbox makes no sense. But then again, neither does a car with 2k miles on it. I ran into a guy at Costco a couple of weeks ago. He was driving his $10 million LWB California spider. I've seen him several times around town as he drives the car regularly. I suspect he was enjoying his car more than the bloke who parks it in the garage. Am I alone in this view?
         

  22. #22
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    To each his own.
    Dirk

    Alpina #142
    www.bmwccca.com

  23. #23
    I happen to prefer a manual transmission, but I take no issue with those who prefer automatics. What I find discouraging is the decision by many car companies to phase out of manuals. You can no longer buy a new Ferrari in this country with a stick. The new Audi A3 is a neat car which my son was considering for purchase until he found out it cannot be equipped with a manual transmission. As an FYI, there were a number of original (1962-1967) Cobras equipped with automatic transmissions!

    Bill

  24. #24
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    Hello Bill. That's interesting. I was at Laguna Seca for the big meeting of the Cobras a couple years back but don't remember seeing autobox versions. Ferrari and Lambo both ceasing production of true sports cars, i.e., one's the driver controls with stick shifts, is very disheartening. Makes the cars with good manual transmissions look all the more attractive. Kudos to Corvette and a 7 speed manual!
       

  25. #25
    Z8Mania
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    I am at heart with your sentiments. However, I have several nuanced reactions to your post.

    I think the first thing that comes to mind is what is a traditional roadster?

    Does it have AC? Does it have CD Changer and NAV? Does it have an automatic roof mechanism (or any!!) Does it have ABS? How about DSC? I know you know this, I'm just making conversation here... The Z8 feels pretty basic, but it really has a lot of helpers- and in stock form it even has the dreaded CDV. While we're on that topic, does a traditional roadster have synchromesh transmission? Or should you have to double clutch for each shift? How about power steering and brakes... I try to consider the era the car came from when making my judgements....

    I've always been a stick shift guy- but the more time I spent at the track- the more I discovered that shifting is not driving. Being able to get perfect shifts every time might take some of the sport out of it, but at the track it also provides some extra safety and consistency, which allows one to really focus on driving the proper line...

    So when the Alpina came out, yeah, I thought it was pretty terrible- how could they stick an automatic in our beloved Z8. Except the Z8 wasn't really selling anymore. The Dot Com bubble had burst, and the SL55 AMG was showing it was a better choice for daily driving duties- though no where near as special.

    Did you know when they were planning the Z8, BMW initially saw it as a Mercedes SL competitor, and they planned to offer it with the N62 V8 motor and a choice of automatic or stick shift. That was going to be it. BMW thought the 540i/6 was plenty. I mean, who needs more than 282 HP. And remember the recession of the early 90s and the green movements really were on peoples minds... Then of course, Mercedes came out with the 355HP E55 AMG and BMW could not let that stand so they hurriedly got the S62 into the pipeline, and I think pretty quickly they realized they could not sell a halo car like the Z8 with the standard drivetrain. So they dropped the S62 into the Z8. And this was controversial inside the company because its an M motor inside a non M car. Only the second time in the company's history this happened. The first was for the South African market with I think the E34 7 series. I forget the reasons now, I think it was emissions. I suppose you could say a possible third time was the V12 from the McLaren F1. Anyway, suffice it to say this was a big deal, but of course the right call. However, the car really was developed more along the lines of a SL type boulevard cruiser than a M3 or 911 type sports car. And it shows because we didn't get the M variable locking diff (and that caused quite a stir in later years when we all figured it out), we got an open diff, and back then M cars got no CDV interference, but we got it- thats the worst device dreamed up by men in a long time!

    And then I came across a few Alpina owners who for various health reasons couldn't operate a stick shift but wanted to drive this gorgeous car. Also there are those who just don't know how to drive stick shift. Should they be denied? If I'm selling cars I say no way.

    So with this knowledge, I realized the Alpina V8 Roadster really isn't quite the abomination I thought it was at first because you could say its better suited to the Z8s original intended mission. It also has more torque and you can still drive it hard. There is still the regular Z8 if you want a stick shift with one of the creamiest V8s ever made. And lets face it, the name of the game is to sell cars and the Z8 sales had really cooled off by then. So for me what started out as being miffed and confused became understanding and acceptance. And we later found out the Alpina springs are better for the Z8 than the Z8 springs! Shame they stuck with the Z8s stock anti roll bar- its too soft- at least for my taste.

    I love the shots of the 250 California. What a beauty. I have no idea in this instance, maybe it is real, but a lot of people who own such high dollar cars get replicas made... then the original stays at home and the replica goes on the drives. Its actually a fairly smart thing to do and the replica really has the same mechanicals so the experience of driving it is the same.

    As to the other marques stopping stick shift. Its just the business side of it. Lets consider the 458- have you driven one? Its really spectacular but everything happens so fast- a stick shift would be out of place in there. And then there is the safety issue- most people don't really know how to drive stick shift- can you imagine decoupling the drive train at the wrong time with 550-600 HP? Or the F12 with its 730 HP.... And also the warranty claims for fried clutches.... For better or worse we have given more control over to the electronics. This is why when I came across a 2009 F430 stick shift, I grabbed it. Last model year and my favorite colors of TDF/Cuoio. I love driving it. I also love driving the newer cars too- they are just different. The good news for the stick shift lovers- there are plenty of cars to choose from.

    I'll tell you what I really don't like- the new auto rev match stick shifts- the new BMWs all have it and you have to go to the very hard riding sport + mode to disable it. Wheres the fun in that! (and the world keeps turning...)


  26. #26
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    As much as I am a die hard manual transmission guy, I have to say, the alpina is a joy to drive. At one point, while it owned my gt3s, I actually pondered if all z8s should have been automatics. It really is a perfect combination. The manual z8 always seems just a bit of an anomaly, personality wise it's a ninja supermodel! The automatic is absolutely consistent with the entire experience in a seamless way. Don't get me wrong, I love my z8 because of its raw, wolf in sheeps clothing persona, and have worked to enhance that, but I love the alpina too, as long as I have a raw sports car in the stable too. Given my disdain for automatic sporty cars, that says a lot!

  27. #27
    Ditto to both of those posts. I recently had my first drive in a tuned and track prepped Scud, it is such a rapid machine that I can't imagine a stick would work well in it because you really want your hands on the wheel at all times to handle its insanely rapid pace!

    Both the Z8 and the Alpina are more GT cars that Supersorts, and thus it really comes down to what you enjoy driving. We do long fast days on our group drives here, and we are split 30/70 with Alpinas in the mix, and they never give up and inch to the sticks on the open road, so it really does come down to what suits you. As Jerry mentioned the Alpina has much better suspension and handling, which is why so many of us hard bitten drivers have opted for the full EU Alpina suspension package (it has different front slings from the US one, allowing the car to sit a bit lower, but it breaks so federal law, hence the US Alpinas actually have Z8 front springs.)
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  28. #28
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    I currently have both an Alpina and a Z8. They are two very different cars to drive, yet obviously similar, and I love them both. There are days and places where the stick is great that's for sure, but when doing boring driving around town on busy roads, the auto is also nice. Let us also not forget the Alpina paddle shifters - in "spirited" driving on hellbent roads and tracks where you really have to steer with both hands, the paddle shifters are a blast also, and are actually quicker on the track even with experienced drivers.

    I do prefer the Alpina suspension / handling over the Z8 quite a bit. Not really softer, but the Alpina handles the bumps and undulations especially around hard cornering better, yet I feel it is flatter when cornering. What I do feel the Alpina really lacks is a "Sport button" to hold the revs higher and delay the shift points higher while in auto mode. Once in a while when you want to jump on it a little it tends to bog prior to down shifting. It should hold the revs higher for quicker reaction to the go peddle.
    Just random comments...
    Tom
    Z8LVR

  29. #29
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    More great stuff! I was fortunate to get to drive (hard!) a fellow members alpina at Sonoma raceway... It gave up nothing. But I do agree about needing a sport button. It was sluggish to shift at times. Andrew, should we move all this to a threat called "alpina vs z8"?

  30. #30
    I know, it's drifted far from the original thread of Gar's gorgeous car to sell, but I can't takes individual posts, or blocks of posts out of a thread, so sadly these stay here, unless someone wants to start that new thread :-)
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  31. #31
    Z8Mania
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    How can we break it out?

    The Z8 is an amazing machine, in either form. Also did you guys know the founder of Alpina's son was the head suspension engineer at BMW for the Z8 development and then he went home to Alpina and did the Alpina version so he got to improve on his work.

    Im glad you got to drive the Scud. Its a truly amazing car. Its a kind of fun thing because you have the 430 and then the 430 Challenge is a race car based on the street 430 which came first and then you get the Scud which is a street car, based on a race car of the same street car. It really is not a race car though, it understeers and its really setup as a street car- which Id say is a good thing for most of us. But it gives you a really visceral experience and I love that.

    You should try driving a 458. Its not as visceral but it is so much stiffer a structure and has so much better rear end setup in the suspension that it allows much faster steering and it is just so pin point sharp.

  32. #32
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    Yes, that would be expected…..

    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    I …. we're beginning to see a real divergence between collectors and drivers, and with these miles this is really now a drivers car, no matter how perfect.
    , 5,000 miles is the typical milage in most states where a dealer can still sell a car as "new" so it would make sense that sub 5k cars would be the diverging point between "collectors" [aka Concourse quality] and "drivers" [relatively low milage but those that will be driven, even though only 3-5k miles per year].

    Doing my recent research in trying to make some sense of Z8 prices, most of the Z8s out there fall into the latter "drivers" category but the resellers feel they have something in the Collector Concourse category and use those Concourse quality sales to falsely boost the sale of the other cars. Granted, it is good for all of us in the long run but the speculators can run amuck and lead to false impressions of what something is actually worth. Granted, a car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it but prices can fall as quickly as they can rise.

    Hagerty Insurance considers the immaculate "Concourse" quality Z8 to be only worth average no more than $150,000 so that should be a realistic benchmark for where the "value" is (i.e., some higher and some lower but still fitting that Concourse Quality). Hagerty will insure for higher (as they will sell you any policy but that does mean you could be over insuring your car and paying for more insurance than you need) but the information I stated is just an average Concourse car. More value can obviously be assigned for rare color and lower production variation, such as the Midnight Blue Canadian version with under 5 k miles for example - only one of 4 known to have been produced in that color combination. But a"drivers" Z8 that is Silver / Black with 20-30k miles is NOT IMHO, a $159,900K car, like some of those that have been listed for lately. But then again, if someone can get that price, GREAT !


    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  33. #33
    Respectfully, both you and Hagerty are a bit behind the ball here. I've already been a party to two over 200k sales, and as you can see here, have two more over 200k cars waiting in the wings for the right buyers. The values have really jumped this year, and as I've been a lot more involved in connecting potential owners with cars this year, I'm seeing both what sellers are asking and buyers are prepared to pay.

    So, in response, I'd say that a "driver" Z8 in Silver/Black with 20-30k miles is a $159,900K car, so long as it has all its original parts, books, keys, tools, and it passes my inspection. (Perfect soft top, headlights, no dash delamination, etc, etc, etc)
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  34. #34
    Team Z8
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    Well, as with everything else its about how much somebody thinks their --- is worth and how much the other person is willing to pay. I really like my car...even after all these years, but there's no way on I'd pay more than $120k to replace it. Maybe I'm missing something or maybe the money spent really is irrelevant to some people.

  35. #35
    There's a lot of variables here, but with only around 1200 of these cars left in the USA, and a lot of people suddenly taking notice of them because they are an appreciating asset, the market for them is changing. It is no longer about what it's worth as a car, but what its worth as an asset. At half the price a brand new Boxster/Vette/M4 would all give you an even more thrilling ride, but it's not about the ride anymore.

    (By the way, they'd also all run rings around a $15M 275GTO ;-)
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  36. #36
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Kevin's Avatar
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    ^^^ $50mill 250 GTO. There's actually one coming to auction soon, my bet is it'll go for $60 mill.
    2003 Z8 Silver/Black AH62031 (Sold)

  37. #37
    1200? WOW - sounds like most of the ones being sold are leaving the country. How does your 1200 number estimate break out between the Z8 and the Alpina? This is becoming quite an exclusive club.
    Skip Hammerman

    2002 BMW Z8 - Meisterschaft GT, PP installed, CDV delete
    2013 BMW X3
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  38. #38
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    I was talking to a very knowledgable and experienced classic car dealer the other day who feels strongly that the collector car market will continue to explode. He stated that nearly all of his cars are sold abroad and that they are spreading out all over the world to wealthy buyers in places you couldn't imagine. He is seeing an expanding demand geographically with a dwindling number of quality cars. I think this would butress Andrew's comment regarding them as an asset class.

  39. #39
    Skip, I'd say we're down to about 200 Alpinas and about 1000 Z8's at this point.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  40. #40
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    PM Sent. I didn't want to put a long reply in here for fear I'd be seen as hijacking this tread

  41. #41
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    How many miles on those old GTOs? Oh, yeah.... Nobody cares? For now it's all about the low mile cars, someday who knows!

  42. #42
    A Topaz Blue/crema 2002 car with 34k miles appeared on Ebay this week, and was sold in less than 24 hours to a dealer in Germany for $119k. Looked like a nice car, my guess is it was a bargain at this price.

    Bill

  43. #43
    That was an absolute steal!
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  44. #44
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    Well, I guess we can close this thread now. It took awhile, but the owner came around and accepted an offer of $180,000 from a Dutch buyer. I wasn't thrilled about it leaving the country, and the sale did involve a few more moving parts than normal, but it all came together nicely for everyone. I will say that if you want to ship a car to Europe, look no further than CFR Rinkens. Very professional and they use a new generation shipping container that looks to be a whole lot more efficient and safe than the old way of building wooden stilts and such to hold a car in place. They're also so inexpensive I couldn't believe it. I can't ship a car across the USA for what they can get a car from L.A. to Europe for. $275 to pick the car up in Carlsbad and truck it to L.A., and then $1,250 to get it to Rotterdam, NL. Are you kidding me? They also acted as the escrow company. The buyer wired his funds to them for the car, and once they inspect the car and paperwork in person, they call the office, the money is wired, and it arrives in the sellers account within 20 minutes. Once the money is in, the car is loaded on the truck and Bob's your Uncle.
    Anyway, nice car, nice buyer, and I think we got a good number considering the reasonably "high" 32,000 miles.
    Thanks for all the advice from the membership here and you'll always be my first stop if I get to offer up any more Z8's!



    Gar

  45. #45
    I do think that's a very good price for both parties considering the miles, though I think in this instance the buyer might have gotten the upper hand. I've just helped seal a deal on a 12k mile Black/Red Alpina that is also headed overseas for 220k.

    As an aside I think we must be down to almost 100 Alpinas in the entire USA by now, so many have already headed back to the EU.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  46. #46
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    I think prices have continued to rise, especially overseas, since I put this one on the market six or so months ago. I was actually surprised when the owner accepted the offer, but pleased as well. I was frustrated as he was resistant to replace the rear window after doing all of the other work. I really hate having to say "It's really perfect, but..." He'd basically just told me to move forward with getting the window done when the offer came in. The buyer was made aware of it and didn't make any further mention or make a negotiating point out of it. I imagine he'll just handle it once he has the car in country, or maybe he'll just not worry about it.
    The owner was lamenting that he was sure the values would now go crazy since he'd sold his baby. He'd made his peace with it though. It was a car for a different time of his life. He had his fun with it and now it's time for someone else to enjoy. Although I'm sure I'll never hear the end of it if they're all trading for 300+ next year!


    Gar

  47. #47
    Congratulations on the sale of the Alpina! I think the new owner got a winter season discount, but if everyone is happy it is time to move on. Given the recent strength of the US dollar relative to the Euro, I'll be curious to see how the monetary exchange rates affect US to EU car sales in the future.
    My Best,

    Ed

    2002 Z8 Jet Black//Sport Red
    2012 SLS AMG Obsidian Black/Classic Red

  48. #48
    Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    I'll be curious to see how the monetary exchange rates affect US to EU car sales in the future.
    With the current EUR/USD exchange rate including transport, conversion US/EU it is still a bargain. I will follow the car on Dutch grounds....but I think it will be for sale next month.
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  49. #49
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    The buyer has got the car in Holland now and could not be more thrilled with it. He simply couldn't believe how nice everything was. It's a good feeling to get feedback like that, not that I expected him to be disappointed in any way. I really try to represent the cars I sell as completely and honestly as possible to avoid any disappointments. So far so good. I did have an X5 blow the coolant recovery tank on the day a buyer took delivery years ago. I felt awful and the previous owner pitched in to help cover the buyer's expense, so it still ended up o.k.

    He may have me sell his U.S. spec tail lights and whatever else he has to swap out to make the car road legal in Holland. I'll keep you guys in the loop if that happens.


    Gar

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