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Thread: same motor....

  1. #1
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    same motor....

    I have always had a soft spot for the BMW S62 motor, whether M5 or Z8. Over the last 5 or 6 years I have kept an occasional eye out for a really nice e39 M5 to keep my Z happy!
    Yesterday, I found a peach. Just over 30k, 2003 m.y. (which is the best) and unbelievably clean. I have looked at quite a few cars over the years and even driven a few that had promise but none had the super tight new car feel. Not only is the a really nice drive, it is pristine inside and out. It has no rock chips, no dings, no issues in the interior or wear areas, even the drivers bolster is nice.
    Car fax was clean but having a ppi done next week anyway.
    Not great pics but gives an idea of the condition.
             

  2. #2
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    The only flaw is curbed passenger side rear wheel. I will find another wheel as some point but does not worry me right away as I will swap wheels anyway.
    Very exciting, here's to hoping nothing fishy arises from the ppi. John

  3. #3
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Wow, that's quite a find! Good luck with the pip. Keep us posted. That's a nice way to store a spare motor!

  4. #4
    Looks to be a great example of the e39 m5 in a nice color combination! I imagine that the 10 year maintenance checklist for the Z8 would come in handy too if the deal is completed after the ppi.
    My Best,

    Ed

    2002 Z8 Jet Black//Sport Red
    2012 SLS AMG Obsidian Black/Classic Red

  5. #5
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    I just completed the 10 year checklist on my 03 E39 M5 and added Bilstein coil overs to replace the stock shocks which improved handling without sacrificing comfort. Other than that, its just been oil changes for 65K miles. Amazing vehicle!

  6. #6
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    Very nice example ....I think the same interior design team worked on the Z8
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  7. #7
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    thanks guys.

    Ken, did the bilsteins really improve handling as well as providing good ride comfort when apporpriate?

  8. #8
    Z8Mania
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    NICE John!

  9. #9
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverflyer View Post
    thanks guys.

    Ken, did the bilsteins really improve handling as well as providing good ride comfort when apporpriate?
    There was a dramatic difference in body roll and the front to back movements that you get with accel/deceleration. However, while installing them, I saw that the front right and left rear originals had developed small fluid leaks which may have been affecting the pre-Bilstein ride slightly making the difference that much more noticeable. The nice part is that cruising comfort was not changed, and they do not give that annoying "feel every pebble" that so often accompanies coil over conversions.
    I went with the PSS set which is basically the PSS9 without the adjustments and preset midway, and lowered the car about 1/2 inch from stock all the way around. Extra bonus- the Bilsteins are less expensive than replacing OEM and very straightforward to install if you decide to do it yourself (no compressing springs and the new coil overs can be pre-assembled before removing the old ones). All told, very highly recommended.

  10. #10
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    I'm putting PSS9s on my cayman this week, along with adjustable sway bars. I've heard the ride is VERY good.

  11. #11
    DSC Off StuM's Avatar
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    Nice M5

    Great car. Congrats. I has a 2001 M5 and loved it as a driver. Unfortunately I jumped at it and it was Silverstone (very light blue). After a short time, I regretted the color choice every time I went into the garage and eventually sold it. Solely because of the color! Taught me to much more carefully to consider color choices after that.
    Anyway, other than the color, I loved the car. Hope you do too. Good luck and enjoy.
    StuM
    2013 M3 Lime Rock Edition coupe (sold)
    2011 Audi R8 V10 Spyder (sold)
    2011 6.2L Raptor
    2002 BMW Z8 (sold)
    1967 Corvette 427 roadster
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    2014 BMW i8 (pending)

  12. #12
    Great find, great combo, enjoy!!
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  13. #13
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    Such a great car. I got mine back in 2002 and it's still my daily driver. I have over 130,000 miles on it, and funny enough most of the maintenance work occurred in the first 60k-70k miles. Since then the most expensive maintenance has been the tires, and a new fuel pump. In fact that's a big reason why I went for the Z8.

  14. #14
    What, no performance package across the front of that S62?

    Very nice; my favorite M5.
    C.A. Cardenas (AKA Dan)
    2003 (last one?) Z8 - Hellrot / Sport Rot
    Original Owner - Munich Tourist Delivery
    -- Others --
    1988 M6 - 32K mi. - Original Owner
    1989 DINAN 750iL - 73K mi. - Original Owner
    1998 M3 - 63K mi. - Original Owner
    2015 X5 (F15) Diesel - Daily Driver

  15. #15
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Kevin's Avatar
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    Very nice and it looks exemplary. Hope you enjoy it in good health!
    2003 Z8 Silver/Black AH62031 (Sold)

  16. #16
    Z8Mania
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    Its funny Stu, some of us, like you and I, are very sensitive to color on a car, but some others just dont care and could do almost any color. Its just an interesting observation. The key is to know which kind you are.

  17. #17

    I used to have one as well -

    Here is my 2000 M5 - stuck in the driveway in January 2004 in Novi, Michigan with it's summer Michelins...

    Skip Hammerman

    2002 BMW Z8 - Meisterschaft GT, PP installed, CDV delete
    2013 BMW X3
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  18. #18
    Z8 Novice glord's Avatar
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    Did the same two years ago. Found a 2002 Carbon Black with black extended leather with 57k. Just turned 75k. Incredible car. I recently bought an F10 M5. Great car in many ways, but I have to say I prefer the E39 all things considered. Like the Z8, I doubt they will ever build another one like it. They simply got everything right.

  19. #19
    Z8Mania
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    Very nice! I agree. I think the E39 was a time when all the planets aligned.

  20. #20
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Kevin's Avatar
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    Personally I always thought this Era (2000-2005) was the best era of M cars in general ever. At the time they were making
    E46 M3
    Z3 M Coupe (surprisingly these have also become collectable, and have really grown on me)
    E39 M5
    Z8
    All of which are regarded today by the General Public as some of the all time greats!!
    2003 Z8 Silver/Black AH62031 (Sold)

  21. #21
    Z8Mania
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    Agreed.

  22. #22
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Great point.

  23. #23
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    OK, need some feedback and advice from the sage members here. I could go on the m5 board but prefer less advice from people I have more of a personal sense of.

    Just finished the ppi, came through with flying colors. The shop did say the bumper, hood and left fender had been repainted. I thought that was a deal killer but the owner of the shop got on and his take was that it could have been keyed or some cosmetic issue, like scratches from scraping something. He said that none of those panels, or the hood had ever been off the car, just that they were repainted. His opinion was its a very fine low miles car and in great shape.
    Since I do not have the story and will have to decide w/o it, does a respray of those areas change the deal? How much discount should I ask for since I no longer have as much flexibility regading resale?
    Would you walk away from a great car in as new condition just because of an unknown issue that required paint? It could be as simple as rock chips and cosmetic respray, or parking lot tap that had to be blended over the surrounding panels.
    Either was its not as perfect a story as I thought it was and does that kill the deal or should it just be an adjustment in price?

    thanks for any input, John


    Damn Musta, that car looks so cold and forlorn stranded in the snow....hope it did not have to sit out there too long!!

  24. #24
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    If all else passes and it looks like there has not been damage to any frame or major support pieces and the panels are original and never removed, I would not consider it a full deal breaker. Have you looked at a Carfax for reported accidents? Can your local dealer pull up the repair history of work done at BMW for you?
    Most of the M5's being offered are in the 85K-160K mileage range and are very cheap ($16-24K) compared to the original MSRPs. You could get a 30K-40K at Enthusiast Auto who seem to vacuum these up from across the nation but you'd pay $35-40K for the privilege. So it all depends on the price, your honesty with yourself about whether you will look at the fender first every single time you get in the car and be bothered knowing that its not original, or if you just want a really low mileage example of a fun car to jet around in.

  25. #25
    Z8Mania
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    First off, its not like these cars are ultra rare.

    My opinion is repainting bumpers and rockers is no big deal. The rest of the car definitely affects the value. It simply will not show as a factory paint job when a pro uses the paint depth reader.

    I think the big question here is what will you use the car for? If its to be an occasional use car and something to have that book ends the Z8, I'd look for a more pristine example. But if its something that has the relation to the Z8 but you will put a lot of miles on then it probably doesn't matter as much.

    Carfax is not the be all/ end all- still nice to have- but just remember car fax doesn't guarantee you something perfect.

    If it was me, I would pass on it because there are other cars out there. But if the price is right and you plan to drive it a lot then I dont think it matters so much.

    In terms of how much of a discount Im not sure but perhaps $5k? You have to consider the fact that not only does it lower the value of the car, but it also means it will take a longer time to sell.

  26. #26
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Jerry, you're right about the goal being the deciding factor. If the M5 is to be preserved as a classic, then no aftermarket paint is a necessity to keep its value. Using my M5 as a pleasure-DD and having the Z8 as my classic put me in the frame of mind that it is disposable (well, it is priced lower than a new Camry) and worth saving some bucks due to a repaint as long as it would serve well mechanically due to its low mileage. In the past, I have also paid the premium for the perfect specimen then had to respray an area due to a careless human in a parking lot right after delivery negating the premium pretty quickly. And yes, I always looked at that spot first even though the repair was perfect.

  27. #27
    DSC Off StuM's Avatar
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    Colors

    Quote Originally Posted by Z8Mania View Post
    Its funny Stu, some of us, like you and I, are very sensitive to color on a car, but some others just dont care and could do almost any color. Its just an interesting observation. The key is to know which kind you are.
    Right, Jerry. Color is my most difficult decision, coupled with the right interior. Of course, this is from a guy who currently owns a bright orange M3 LRP edition!
    StuM
    2013 M3 Lime Rock Edition coupe (sold)
    2011 Audi R8 V10 Spyder (sold)
    2011 6.2L Raptor
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  28. #28
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    thanks for the thought guys. My original excitement was due to the car seeming to be a low miles creampuff that could be anything I needed it to be. As much as I love the idea of the M5, I am not sure how much I will use it. Unpainted, resale would be easy given the condition, but as you say, the undocumented paint work means fewer buyers and a longer sell period. I guess I am leaning toward purchase as a discount. Jerry, both Judy and I were right about with you at $5k off purchase.

    Funny, I had called Eric at EAG to discuss this issue and get his advice. He knew of the car and said the paintwork was why he passed on it. Interesting in that it tells me he has hired someone to read CL daily in all the major markets in his search for low miles e39 m5's.
    I know if I were to use it as a driver, I would cherish the low miles tightness and the paintwork would not bother me at all, but if, after a bit I realize it does not suit me, then the resale might take more time. Once again, with the right discount, it would still be ok.

    As my process, i will sleep on it and a clear answer will await me in the am.

  29. #29
    Z8Mania
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    Since you don't know what you will do, I would suggest you move on to another example. If you don't want to hold on to it, Eric is the kind of professional that could take it off your hands quickly- could be at a slight loss- but at least it would be basically painless. You're hearing from a pro who won't touch the car so that is very telling. It also means this car won't be in the market for professional dealers but rather yahoos and tire kickers. IMHO the right question to ask at this point is whether paying $5k more for a better example would be worth it. I can only give you my own take which is- it would be more than worth it for me. On the other side, if I knew that I would drive this car every day and maybe do upgrades/ tweaks to it- basically do things that destroy financial value but add fun value, then its great to get a lower miles car at a lower price. Because all those activities also make it more difficult to sell on.

  30. #30
    I say walk away. Four doors are never going to be that collectable or desirable long term. Any four door, not just the e39, so unless you absolutely know you have to have it, then you don't need it, or its potential headaches.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  31. #31
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    I say walk away. Four doors are never going to be that collectable or desirable long term. Any four door, not just the e39, so unless you absolutely know you have to have it, then you don't need it, or its potential headaches.
    I agree that it will never be a huge collectable, but that also means that the spread between never painted and a nice partial respray will lessen with time. I say if the paint looks good and the price reflects a savings, enjoy the car with that rare interior and low mileage on the mechanicals. Its a lot more relaxing to drive a car after its already had something done and the E39 will never fund your retirement regardless of a paint repair. What numbers are we talking?

  32. #32
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    I appreciate the feedback. Last night I decided that I would just offer a lower price and if he takes it, fine, if not, that would be fine also.
    I have to say it is the nicest driving example of any I have tested, feels very new and fresh compared to the others I have driven.

    Jerry, if it were as simple as $5k I would absolutely move on, but for a car in this condition and drives like this one, I might have to pay low 40, even mid 40's where I
    might get this car for 1/2 that.

    Since this, considered by many to be bmw's finest M car or close to the top, I don't think the 4 doors issue will come up. Eric told me he is selling an even lower miles car with, of course, no paint work, for $55k. I don't want to spend that much on one of these, although I may spend more than that on an e9 coupe build.
    So there are a lot of reasons to consider this, paint or no. The inspection shop said the repairs were top notch. Erics reason for passing was that the frame might be bent. Personally, I doubt it if they did not even have to remove the hood or fenders.
    I thouhgt I would know this morning what to do, but obviously I am still conflicted.

  33. #33
    John,
    All of the recent post are well thought out and reasoned. Since you have spent 5-6 years looking at these cars, you're probably in the best position to know the value of an e39 M5 with re-sprayed parts. For me if this was the only concern, I would probably go for it and not look back at the right price. If there's a cumulative effect of paint and other things that are not up to your expectations, I'd move on and continue the search. If you want to know the events leading up to re-painting, you could also check the maintenance log in the M5 and call/e-mail the listed owner or the listed dealership.
    Good luck with your decision!
    My Best,

    Ed

    2002 Z8 Jet Black//Sport Red
    2012 SLS AMG Obsidian Black/Classic Red

  34. #34
    Z8Mania
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    Why would Eric think the frame might be bent? Do you think thats on the mark or maybe he is thinking you might go for one of his more premium examples?

    All I know is if the frame was in fact bent, I have been there, and I would never go back to that place.

    FWIW, the curb rash on the rear passenger side wheel does not inspire confidence....

  35. #35
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    Update. Thanks all for your thoughtful help. In the end I decided to pass. There will be just the right car somewhere down the line...or maybe I just don't need another care! John

  36. #36
    Good choice, less cares is always better. I'm aiming to be fully carefree one day!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  37. #37
    Z8Mania
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    I think you made the right move.

  38. #38
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    Found her and close to home as well.
    Only 16k, absolutely killer service history, full leather incl dash, alcantara lid,$20k in Dinan mods and full Alpine audio upgrade with integrated bluetooth, sirius and ipod. Car is, cliched as it is, like new. New PSS's, two sets of wheels, cover, extra tires, all books etc. Just the way you always hope to find a car and so rarely do.

    Funny, its the same color as the first one....w/o the paintwork.

    The one shot with 3 cars is a cool family pic, two by common designer and two by common motor.
                 

  39. #39
    Fantastic find, bravo - your patience really paid off big time in this instance!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  40. #40
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Amazing find. Great trio!

  41. #41
    WOW !!! What a find. Congratulations.
    Skip Hammerman

    2002 BMW Z8 - Meisterschaft GT, PP installed, CDV delete
    2013 BMW X3
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  42. #42
    Z8Mania
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    Beautiful find. Thats a MY 2000 car. How do I know? I have my ways... these cars, when fitted with the Dinan mods blow away all the subsequent M5s. Congratulations John! Well done!

  43. #43
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. Thats why I like posting on this board, its the most supportive, non argumentative car board I know of. Some of them are not even worth posting on!

    She goes under the knife next week to "get right" for my driving needs and finish the mod package to my taste. Euro (clear corner) angel eyes, Z3 oem shifter with cdv delete, Dinan cold air intake with SS x pipe and CNS race exhaust and upgrade to stg II software. Right now you don't really hear the motor, especially with awesome sound system going on. I like to hear the motor so I have a better idea of whats going on. Of course I will keep all the parts and store them with oem wheels etc for the next owner.

  44. #44
    Z8Mania
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    Really nice John. I'd like to hear more about the stereo they put in. Also I think the E39 M5 didn't have a CDV. Last of the M cars to not have it, if memory serves me correctly. Since you are doing the work, I'd look into whether the Dinan mods included uprated bushings and other components because I know BMW made running improvements that made my 2003 M5 drive a lot better than the 2000 I had. It seems your waiting for the right one really landed you quite a spectacular specimen. I love your garage!

  45. #45
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    Thanks Jerry, coming from you that is a great compliment. I have been test driving the 512. Getting the tune right for all cold/hot/throttle needs is quite a task but its going great. Wow, talk about power, at low boost should be high 700's and just a bit into the medium boost area should bring 1000. Needless to say, it will be low boost, conserve the motor and myself!

    Mind you, this Alpine unit is from 2009, so although its great for my needs, there is bound to be newer, bigger etc units out there now.
    Alpine moblie media IVA-W505 with bluetooth integration, Passport 9500 Radar detector,
    DVD, 5 channel amp, upgraded mic, and most speakers upgraded. Sound is awesome with no distortion at even throbbing volume levels. Works for me. On par with the very nice Bose unit in the AM.

    I will ask the shop if there are any bushing upgrades that have not been done or could be upgraded. It has stage III dinan setup (Koni) with camber plates now.

  46. #46
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    What a beauty! Enjoy.
    PS- I'd like more info on the audio upgrade too. Full integration with today's gadgets is a nice bonus.

  47. #47
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    I dont know much more than what I posted but if you want to go deeper, the shop that did all the work is called Marin Sound Werks. Ask about Robb O.'s M5 and they should know the car. (415) 747-8249. Hope that helps.

  48. #48
    Z8Mania
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    Funny but I've actually heard of them- only positive things.

    John, you referred to a 512 above- a Ferrari 512?

  49. #49
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8Mania View Post
    Funny but I've actually heard of them- only positive things.

    John, you referred to a 512 above- a Ferrari 512?
    Yes, remember the badass boxer? TT norwood build? I have done full motor rebuild with stronger internals, custom diff, full custom headers and titanium exhaust, top of the line turbos and intercoolers, custom Ohlin coilovers, 3 completely new cooling systems for various components. On and on. Notice the repeated use of the word custom.....!! Not a good thing, not trying to sound special. This is the admission of man beaten and whipped by the needs of a custom application, esp. fcar. This project should have been done by someone like Glickenhaus...it has been way over my head.
    But...once you start you have to keep going or you end up with a much diminished project. We are on the last legs though, and many many hours have gone into tuning. The car is a pleasure to drive, is blindingly fast and yet very fun and easy to drive BUT you must be very prudent with the go pedal. Hope to have a full write up sometime soon.
    Here is the link in case you want to read it. Very long. I think there have been 6k views since I stopped posting. It was, for a time depressing, especially when the economy tanked and $ matters were dire. It really is a beauty though. Pics early in the thread so you don't have to wade too far in unless you get hooked.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/box...-part-2-a.html

  50. #50
    Z8Mania
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    Wow John. I remember the car but I forgot you did so much to it. You are right, once you get going with something like this, you just can't help but to go all the way. I am also glad it seems you are in a better place today than when things got really ugly.