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Thread: Ferrari F12

  1. #1

    Ferrari F12

    Not sure how many of you guys get Autoweek, but the new issue has a story on the new Ferrari F12, which is the best looking F car I've seen in a very, very long time.

    If anyone here gets one, please, please, please can I have a drive in it!!







    .
     
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  2. #2
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Is it as huge?
    thegunguy

  3. #3
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Don't know why but it doesn't thrill me.
    Marty

    2001 Z8
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  4. #4
    Z8Mania
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    I need to see it in person. I may be getting one but it depends on if my dealer comes through with his promise that he would make one of these available to me.

    I have very mixed feelings on this one. On one hand you can't argue with a 730 hp V12 Ferrari engine mated to a state of the art chassis. On the other hand, I am not in love with this whole generation of Ferrari design. And that is because their in house design studio, Ferrari Design, is taking an ever more prominent role in designing these cars. My opinion is the range has too much similarity between models now. And I'm not in love with this "angry insect" look they are going with now.

    Each manufacturer is always chasing ever more sales. To my mind, the last generation of cars was like where BMW was with the E36, E38, E39, even the Z8. They were bringing new technology into the cars but it was added to/ on top of old "goodness" (there was a lot of evolution here). The E65 7 and E60 5 were really the revolution where the cars went "digital" and also went with styling that was more about being shocking than elegant and handsome/ good looking.

    I see Ferrari going through something similar. Its not just styling but its also the driving experience. Although I must be in the minority, I was not in love with the 458 I got to test drive. It reminded me a lot of the E60 5 series with active steering- it felt forced and lacked the visceral part of the experience I had come to appreciate. To be sure the 458 has tremendous power, acceleration, but I just felt like to enjoy it I would have to drive like an absolute madman.

    One thing that has me worried about the F12s driving experience is the reviews all mention the car has a really fast steering ratio. I don't mind quicker steering, but that 458 really was too much of a good thing.

    I contrast this to the way the E39 M5/ E36 M3, F430, 430 Scud, 599, 612, that whole generation drive, which to me always felt natural. Sure there are some new age safety and performance devices involved but the old school analog is what is the essence there.

    And back to the styling, when I first saw the 599 I thought it was terrific, it was almost the way I felt about the Z8 (I thought the Z8 was a masterpiece when I first saw the 507). And btw- Jason C. who designed the 599 and the Maserati GT and the Maserati Birdcage is another really talented designer. I thought the 599 was dealing successfully with what BMW did not on the 1st Z4. Today I think the 599 looks better than ever and has an element of class to it where the F12 doesn't. At least to my eyes.

    I have to wait and see if my dealer comes through with his promise that I will get an allocation, but if he does I will probably order one and then see what I think. If it happens Andrew, I will certainly let you know and if you feel like making the trip out here you are more than welcome to play with it.

    One thing is sure- I'm not selling my prior generation F cars.

  5. #5
    Z8Mania
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    I have some other materials on the car Ill post up. IMHO this is the best image of the car Ive seen so far.
     

  6. #6
    Yes, thank you, I'd love to take you up on that!!

    I'll be in Long Island for a wedding over Memorial Day, so maybe then??
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  7. #7
    Z8Mania
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    Im in Westchester, but if the car is here and you are here then sure. But I don't think its likely the car will be here. I think there is a ton of interest in this car and there will be the flipping and games as usual and my dealer has been somewhat quiet lately which suggests to me he's not looking to have me come walking in..... and I know the first one or two allocations per dealer have already been specced......

  8. #8
    Z8 Guru 2112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayvenhurstkid View Post
    Don't know why but it doesn't thrill me.
    I like everything but that air tunnel going under the fender bridge (separated by panel cut) into that huge shelved depression in the door. Aerodynamic or not, that is very unattractive IMO and it makes the front fender look like it was lifted off an RX-8
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    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  9. #9
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    I like it. Daytonaish in proportion. However, I hope it's smaller than the 599 (doubt it) and 750 HP! Are they nuts? Also, no stick, electronic everything... Please keep us posted Jerry

  10. #10
    Z8Mania
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    Official Video:

    I love the music at the beginning, watch around 1:17 you can see small flames coming out of the exhaust.



    I have a theory about that panel that covers the fender bridge area. I bet they could have made it part of the panel, but I am guessing they will offer this part in CF or other exotic material/ colors later on and will charge dearly for it- just like they did for the CF rockers on the 599 GTO.

    This and the swoosh on the door, and the rear end possibly resembling a g-string or a hammer head shark are places people seem to draw the criticism of. My biggest issue is the angry insect look. I actually like the way you can see the swoosh of the door takes the curvy haunch and inverts it as you look to the front of the car when you are in side profile. If you look at the car in front 3/4 profile you can see how the air goes through the hood cut outs to the door and then up on the nice rear haunch.

    The car reminds me a bit of 550 Maranello, 275 GTB, 250, and a little of Daytona. Not a bad set of cars but overall I'm just afraid the main sense I get of the car is its more a mish mash of styles than having its own distinctive style, which is a shame. Thats my feeling on the California as well. I think probably the real style standout right now for them is the 458. I don't like it, but at least it doesn't feel a collection of elements from else where.

    On the other hand, I have a feeling that like all cars this will look a lot better in the flesh and also if you look at the original press pics you will see the car sits lower on its suspension- this is typical for them and also some other manufacturers. Once owners lower these cars to non SUV heights they will look much better.

  11. #11
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Jerry, you hit the nail on the head. For me it is a mixture of too many previous F cars, like the California. The 458 does have styling unique to it. You may love it or hate it, but it is a fresh design. That is the direction they should have taken with this car.
    Marty

    2001 Z8
    2014 Range Rover sport Autobiography
    2013 Ford Raptor
    2011 Porsche 911 turbo S coupe

  12. #12
    Wow, smaller, shorter and lighter than a 599, I'll come out and say it, this is the first car I've wanted since the Z8. I doubt I'll ever be able to buy one, but I love it! I'll take mine in Jerry style dark blue with tan interior.

    On another F car note I saw dozen of Ferrari's in Beverly Hills yesterday all stickered up in something that looked very Gumball Rally style gear, but that main sticker read FOG (Ferrari Owner Group?) - anyone else see them, or know what they were doing?
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  13. #13
    Team Z8 ZMates's Avatar
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    If they could do something about the front end and the female reproductive system-like rear end (what were they thinking?), I would really be lusting after this car. As it is, though, the 599 GTO is still the modern Ferrari on my personal list of will haves.
    Silver/black
    Dinan S2 package: headers, throttle bodies, oversized MAFs, airfilters, anti-roll bars, lightweight flywheel
    Dinan by Brembo brake kit and monoball control arm bushings
    BBS forged individual wheels
    Quaife differential, 3.64:1 final drive
    Meisterschaft GT titanium mufflers
    K&W 3 way adjustable competition monotube dampers and monoball adjustable mounts
    CDV delete

  14. #14
    Z8Mania
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    Andrew, just wait a few years and the prices on these will come down. Their current pricing reflects their attempting to capture the froth of the market from 5 years ago and the secondary market doesn't want to support it- not for very long at least. Andrew could it have been Ferrari Club of America? I've never heard of the Ferrari Owner Group but who knows. On the specs the car is amazing. But these are not just about specs. Same for the Z8. What I would like to know is- I thought the torque tube was there to mount the engine and transmission together better to make sure they don't move out of sync with each other. They supposedly eliminated the torque tube on the F12 in the name of weight savings. Thats great but what about the mechanical robustness of doing this? (Not that mechanical robustness is their strong suit!)

  15. #15
    Z8Mania
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    OK here is a gorgeous 599 GTO:

    http://www.algarferrari.com/showroom...70RCA5B0177025



    I do not like the stripe on the GTO. I think its too big a vehicle for a stripe.

    Anyway, here is how I was thinking I'd do an F12. This is blu scozia which is a historic color that is a slightly lighter version of the pozzi (dark blue). Feedback from the stylish people I know was the interior in this darker brown would be too dark- I kind of like it- but I trust their opinions. Anyway, this is really just academic and for fun. They took a lot of these options off the online configurator and actually some of these items had to be done in PS because the on line system was not functioning properly. So this is in the just for fun department. Any thoughts/ feedback?
             

  16. #16
    Z8 Guru 2112's Avatar
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    The dark color makes the problems I had with the F12 exterior less visible.

    Easy for me. I love that exterior color. I would do a red interior with that exterior.

    Here is the color, I would do the normal Daytona style pattern tho.

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    2000 Red over black
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  17. #17
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Looks sweet Jerry! I agree on the stripe. The blue still looks a bit dark? And the brown interior is doing it no favors in my book, especially in a GTO! This car needs a red interior... Oxblood if you want richer. I go for the reds or more of a saddle or biscuit with that blue. Keep it sporty, don't give in to the "Luxo-barge" crowd. Unique is great, but beautiful is better.

  18. #18
    Z8Mania
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    Thanks. I had a whole long reply typed and then I pressed something and it all got deleted!!!

    So I will try again.

    The Blu Pozzi is a great color. In darker light it can almost look black or very very dark blue. As the lighting brightens the color does as well. In very bright sunlight the color actually can take on a kind of 50s looking medium blue- it recalls a different time.

    I actually like the luxo barge interiors in these cars because they are- to my mind- very sporting luxury cars. Certainly they are race inspired, but they are not track nor race cars. I think red would look real sharp on the interior but its not quite me in one of these- (yes I realize I have a red interior in the Z8- but the Z8 is already relatively understated). Anyway you can't go wrong, its all a matter of personal preferences. I also agree that the diamond pattern wouldn't be something I'd choose. Yes its nice looking, but IMHO its too "Bentley". The Daytona pattern is classic Ferrari. Did you know the idea behind it is to make little air pockets when you sit down to help keep your back side cool?

    One thing about trying to get the sense of color on this F12- btw- what kind of boring name is that?! This is just a computer rendering. I believe the 599 in this article is in blu scozia which is like

    Here is a great article about two of the F12s predecessors. I keep this article filed under "OMG" for reasons that will become very obvious: (PS- look at how large the 599 is in comparison to the 275. Just two different eras)

    http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/maga...0.asp?id=13724

    28/03/2008
    Blue on Blue
    Ferrari 599 GTB and 275 GTB/4



    You've either got or you haven't got style. Four decades may separate these two V12 Berlinettas, however - colour apart - they have two things in common: crushing performance and sheer class.

    The opportunity to line up two ?flat? blue, front-engined V12s was irresistible. The 1967 Ferrari 275 GTB/4, probably one of the finest in existence and a winner at last year?s factory 60th anniversary concours, is one of the highlights of the forthcoming RM Ferrari - Leggenda e Passione auction at Maranello in May.

    Chassis 10017 was collected personally from the factory by its 21-year-old American owner on 7th June 1967, who then embarked on a European tour that included attending that year?s Le Mans 24 Hours, held just a few days later...



    The car retains its original colour combination of Dark Blue paintwork and Pelle Arancia interior, having been the subject of a meticulous restoration in recent years. Few 275s were factory-painted in red, and the subtle Pininfarina styling lends itself to variations of silver, pale blue, navy or yellow.

    So much so that Ferrari now offers a range of classic colours available as options on new cars, a range that includes Blu Scozia, the colour of this 599 GTB.





    The race-derived four-cam 275 GTB/4, with its 5-speed transaxle, dry sump, limited-slip differential and six carbs, could be described as one of Ferrari?s last ?racing cars for the road?; a natural culmination of 250 GT SWB and GTO development. Its engine capacity and twin-cam heads came straight from the 1965 sports prototype P2, and contemporary road tests timed the car from 0 - 100mph in under 15 seconds or so, topping-out at over 165mph. Its 3286cc, 300bhp motor approached the magic (for Grand Prix cars of the time, that is) 100bhp/litre at 91.3bhp/litre.

    Fast, long-bonneted and with plenty of weight - both literally and metaphorically - over the rear wheels, the 1960s car is gorgeous. A critic could argue that the 14" wheels limit both the braking options and the ultimate development of the side profile, but the optional Borranis deceive the eye and look fantastic.






    We picked the Ferrari 599 GTB up from Ferrari GB?s base in Slough. The short motorway drive rekindled memories of the Goodwood to Maranello journey undertaken in the car?s launch year, 2006. This isn?t a road test... but I am still totally convinced that this is the finest performance car money can buy right now. Period, no questions, end of story and don?t ask me again please - it?s the best and well worth the two-year wait.

    The 5999cc engine of the 599 GTB produces a massive 620bhp (103bhp/litre, note) even with its modern emissions equipment; more than a long-distance racer of the 275?s era could muster but, like-for-like, not so far removed from the older car.





    From a technical viewpoint, the two cars? similarities run deeper than their navy paintwork. Both have had considerable input from Ferrari?s racing department and while in the 275 GTB/4 this would mainly be in the form of long-distance and GT expertise, in the 599 GTB it is Formula 1 developments like the super-quick gearchange, electronic differential and CCM (carbon composite material) brakes.



    In fact, the front discs on the newer car, at 398mm, are actually bigger in diameter than the wheels of the 275 GTB. That makes you think, and such is progress. The 275 pioneered the use of a ?torque tube?, a rigid case that joins engine to gearbox, carrying the rotating propshaft and also featuring on the 599. Aerodynamics on the earlier car are limited to old-school principles of a penetrative nose and Kamm tail, but it does carry an upswept boot spoiler - a legacy of GTO racing experience.

    The 599 GTB? Well, think state-of-the-Art (and the capital ?A? is deliberate).





    Setting the cars up for photography and the running lineage of classic Ferrari Berlinetta becomes ever more apparent. The delicately fine crease on the top of the front wings. The broad power-bulge on the bonnet (introduced for the four-cam 275), and the domed roofline covering intimate, yet airy, cabins. Both cars carry the familiar ?egg-crate? grille yet the newer has a prancing horse in the centre, the older simply a yellow and black badge on the bonnet.



    At the rear, the 599 GTB has a more rounded treatment, relying on venturis venting underneath the boot, and the sail-planes directing air around the rear screen. The 275?s tail treatment is straight from the Mulsanne; the rear panel and spoiler seemingly lifted directly from a 250 LM.

    They are both magical cars, summed up by ex-Maranello Concessionaires racing driver and Ferrari salesman of the time, Michael Salmon. "It?s quite simple," he once said, "the true Ferrari is a front-engined, 12-cylinder, two-seat coup?."

    New or old, take your pick - you couldn?t go wrong with either.

    Text: Steve Wakefield
    Photos: Simon Mein - all Strictly Copyright


  19. #19
    Lovely cars and story, but that blue is too dark for me, I like the blue you have already much better.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  20. #20
    Z8Mania
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    For me color really depends on the size and shape of the car. I dont like this darker color on the mid engined cars; but I do like it on the front engined ones. Thats the fun part about all of this- theres room for personal taste/ debate. Btw- speaking of the California, if any of you have not driven it, its a hoot to drive. It reminds me of an M3 turned up to 20. Just gobs of power, fast revving V8, great sound (maybe a little contrived), pretty good looking, terrific transmission (its the same one used in the M3 with different software), excellent brakes. Did you know the amount of service hours on the California during the first 50,000 miles is less than the Mercedes SL55 AMG and also less than a Porsche 911 turbo? (I dont think I can truly argue this is more reliable, but it seems to me they built this California for markets where people don't want to put that much into servicing the cars).

  21. #21
    Team Z8 ZMates's Avatar
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    I have to admit the F12 is growing on me after seeing it in videos.
    Silver/black
    Dinan S2 package: headers, throttle bodies, oversized MAFs, airfilters, anti-roll bars, lightweight flywheel
    Dinan by Brembo brake kit and monoball control arm bushings
    BBS forged individual wheels
    Quaife differential, 3.64:1 final drive
    Meisterschaft GT titanium mufflers
    K&W 3 way adjustable competition monotube dampers and monoball adjustable mounts
    CDV delete

  22. #22
    Z8Mania
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    Whats funny is I thought it was incredible based on the first few press pics and then I cooled to it, especially in the videos but lately Im warming up again. This is a sickness- and we have the virus! I have a full infection!

  23. #23
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    Take it from a doctor this virus is ok to have. It is definitely infectious. I like my Ferrari with 12 in front, Rossa Fiorano with tan Daytona seats with Fiorano inserts. It does cause my heart to race!

  24. #24
    Z8Mania
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    Lovely. Which model are we discussing?

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    2001 550 Maranello, Tubi exhaust everything else stock, single owner, 13,000 miles, A great complimentary car for the Z8.

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    Thanks for posting the 599 / 275 article Jerry.

    In 1972 I had the great pleasure to drive my friend's 275 GTB/4 from Pittsburgh, PA to Annapolis, Maryland and back ? I was 24. I still remember the on ramp to the PA turnpike, it was the first time I could run to the red line in first gear. My friend?s father bought the car for $9000.00 and sold it after two years for $11,000.00. I seem to remember that it was in the shop quite a bit. It was a light (metallic?) blue. I saw my friend this last Sunday and meant to ask him if he remembered the name of the color but I forgot to ask him. I will ask next time I see him.

    Regards,

    Phil

    Topaz/Crema 61115

  27. #27
    Z8Mania
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    Phil, great great story.

    Edythe, great great car- you are in good company!