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Thread: The stuff of dreams

  1. #1
    Z8Mania
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    The stuff of dreams

    From your resident horsie luver

    Some gorgeous photography here. I have to say I am not a huge 458 fan but this video makes a great case.


  2. #2
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    God, if you are listening, please let me win the Lotto!
    Marty

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  3. #3
    Z8Mania
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    Dear Mr. Kid,
    If you win, make sure to get that 275 GTB4 NART Spyder.

  4. #4
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    With only ten built, may be tough, but I would find one!
    Marty

    2001 Z8
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    2013 Ford Raptor
    2011 Porsche 911 turbo S coupe

  5. #5
    Z8Mania
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    If you win the lottery, they will be calling you!

  6. #6
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    We had a great time on that road in a pair of loaner Z4Ms chasing a handful Z8s. Magical road.
    thegunguy

  7. #7
    Z8Mania
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    I can only imagine- this is also on my list of things I must do.

  8. #8
    Finally got back home and able to view the vid, it certainly does make a compelling case for the car! :-)
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  9. #9
    Z8Mania
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    And he does a great review too. I think the 458 Spider is very pretty, maybe a touch too over cooked for my tastes in terms of styling but that's not stopping it from finding takers.

  10. #10
    Yes, I don't really like the look or style of the car, I find it a bit too flashy and blingy, but I love the gusto and vroom of how it obviously goes. In your signature dark blue I think it would suit me much better.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  11. #11
    Z8Mania
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    Yes Im with you Andrew. Though, for the mid engined cars, my favorite color is "blu Tour de France" (aka TDF). Its AWESOME. These are not my pics- I found them online. I prefer darker colors on the bigger cars such as the 599.
               

  12. #12
    Z8 Guru 2112's Avatar
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    As a 35 year F-car fan, I do not like the styling. Several issues really, but the single biggest one is the headlights stretching so far up the fender. I looks like an angry Japanese wasp to me.

    The New F-12 looks better but has a bangle flame thingy starting behind the front RX8 styled fender and bisecting the door. Maybe mid run improvements with clean these issues up.

    I do prefer the blue btw.
    .
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  13. #13
    I think styling mid engined cars must be really tricky because there really aren't any I've seen yet that I love. My heart prefers the classic proportions of front engined cars more, even though my head knows the dynamics of the mid motor is superior.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  14. #14
    Z8Mania
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    I think each type of car presents its opportunities and difficulties. The front engined cars seem to end up looking somewhat like a Corvette or Supra no matter what you do. The mid engined cars have slots along the sides and the engine being in the middle is really the least efficient for packaging; but best for dynamics. The rear engined cars tend to end up look like a 911, because thats what they are. And they tend to like to come around on you if you're not careful.

    Its funny because 2112's criticisms of the 458 styling are mine as well. And Im not a fan of the hyper steering pared with the hyper e-diff. Put together the result is very much like driving BMW's Active Steering. It feels like the car is doing so much for you that driving becomes less a physical act- and Im borrowing from Dan Neil here- the commitment to direction doesn't seem to be as strong- the sensation it gives is such that you think its possible to change direction at any micro-moment, and it feels like the car will do it with no consequences... however, as we all know there will be consequences!. It feels unnatural to me.

    And while these cars have always had a more in your face/ look at me/ element- to my eyes this latest round of F cars really has gone too far with that. I also don't like how they are trying to give all the cars in the lineup more of a common design language. This is the influence of FerrariDesign which is slowly taking the reigns away from Pinninfarina behind the scenes. To my eyes, its not a positive development- though I think the California is nice (if a little bit too much an amalgamation of historic cues on a modern body); and the F12 works- but what kind of name is that? Great car but the name is completely uninspired- were they looking at the McLaren MP412C brochure and wondering if they could make a less exciting name?

    Because of this, several months ago I pulled the trigger on a 2009 (last model year for the 430); its my favorite colors (TDF/ Cuoio (a medium tan) and the dash is blu scuro (a darkish blue, it gives you the benefits of black or dark grey with no reflections and it is more interesting looking)) and it is stick . The 430 was the last model they truly offered stick on. There are a few Californias in Europe (rumor is 1-2 in the USA) that are in stick and there were a few 599 GTOs made in stick (according to rumor). But thats just rumor.

    IMHO there is nothing like driving a stick shift F car. The flywheel on these cars is so light and the revs drop so fast, you have to rev match just a little bit on upshifts! Did you know the famous gated shifter which really is like a Ferrari trade mark, originated from Porsche? I was reading up on a car I never knew about: the 330 GTO. It was basically a 250 GTO with a bigger motor and it didn't really do well in competition because of mechanical issues but it has the benefit of more power . Anyway, in learning about this car I found out that the transmission for the 250 GTO was the first time Ferrari used a gated shifter and the transmission was procured from.......... Porsche! So you see, despite the rivalries, theres also camaraderie!

    The cars for the USA come with SUV ride height so I lowered it. Its probably 5mm too low because with a passenger on really bumpy roads it can scrape so we're going to raise it. I have a skid plate under the front bumper and its come in handy! Anyway this car had 2000 miles on it when I got it- its got ~4000 today In addition to lowering it I have 10mm spacers on there. It also came without the factory bass module so I had one made up and I thought it would be nice to have the shield embossed and then put a little horsie on there. And I swapped out the ash tray because we Americans don't harm ourselfs with smoking anymore, instead we do it with large sugary drinks, so I put in a cup holder.

    I should say while the 430 has its flaws, to me it reminds me a lot of the E39 M5. No, not the seating arrangements! But these companies are always looking for more sales and are always on a trajectory. Sometimes they are shrinking but when that happens its not by design. Usually they begin with a particular focus and then they expand it to bring in more sales. The E39 series of BMWs, to me, still incorporated many of the great things about BMWs of the past, but added some of the new technology on top of that. So some purists lamented the traction control or the addition of Nav or other luxuries but under it all it was still what people loved about BMW. The E60 was a total break from that and when I first test drove one, I appreciated that it was more precise but it felt "soulless" to me, if that makes any sense. The 430 is very much like that- it has the old goodness, but there are some new tech things in it that are nice to have. The 458 is a revolution and many people love that- at least right now they do- but just as you see the E39 M5s holding up- I think these 430s, especially the stick shift ones (they dont last long- watch any dealers website, the sticks are gone in 1-3 weeks) and the Scuds will probably always have a demand. They certainty are not investments in the financial sense- but they are investments in happiness- which IMHO is what really matters!

    I'm very happy with the results. This one goes in the "keeper" category because it's my favorite color combo and they simply will not make stick available ever again. Those days are gone at Maranello. Sadly.
                 

  15. #15
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Not a huge Ferrari fan on the newer cars but I agree with you 100% on the F430 coupe with a six speed. Simply stunning!! My all wheel drive 997 turbo sticks like glue to the road with the all wheel drive system but you are also right about rear wheel drive P cars. When I die I want to come back as your garage!
    Marty

    2001 Z8
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    2013 Ford Raptor
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  16. #16
    Z8Mania
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    Thanks Marty. Its really quite a problem these companies have because on one hand they can give you more power than ever- but they also know the people buying these are not skilled drivers and therefore they have to protect you from yourself. Its one thing with a 200 HP car and a 5 speed stick shift- a 600HP car and a stick shift could mean you wreck the drive train in one moment of stupidity or you could even kill yourself. And in selling its 0-60 and other bragging rights measures and so many people don't know how to drive stick so the DCTs make such a good case for themselves. And same for the handling aides that I decry. The only decision these companies have made which I am really not sure about from a sales perspective is Porsche's going to electric steering in the new 991s. It gets you like 1MPG more but it completely robs the steering feel. I don't think there are any safety benefits and the marketing benefits of that extra 1MPG are negligable at best. I really love the 997 because I think it still has some of the old goodness in it, though Im sure there are those who would argue thats the 993. But it seems they tried to keep a lot of that soul in the 996 and really refined it in the 997. A good friend who is a P car nut tells me the 991 drives like a Panamera coupe. He was not saying this as a compliment...

  17. #17
    Z8 Guru 2112's Avatar
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    Now that is a beautiful Car. The 430 shows just how "over the top" the 458 is as far as design goes.
    .
    2000 Red over black
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  18. #18
    DSC Off 1mean3's Avatar
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    I've never seen this color combo on an F430. To my eyes it's the best looking F430 ever.
    Very cool.

  19. #19
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    On the 458, I don't get caught up in the electro wizardry. It's the styling that grabs me. The term is often over used, but the 458 to me is pure "passion". It really tugs at my emotions in the same way that the Z8's beauty is so stunning.

    As I've mentioned before, I'm with your choice of blue's, Jerry. I'd never get a red, yellow, black, etc F-car.

    Great pics, BTW!
    thegunguy

  20. #20
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    The blue 430 looks amazing! Hope to own one some day. As for the 997... yes I think the last "Analog" porsche. I want to get a 997GT3RS 4.0 some day for sure.
    This (below) is my favorite 430 of all time. Paint to spec. non-metallic blue
     

  21. #21
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Porsche 997 GT3RS 4.0. Now I am drooling.
    Marty

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  22. #22
    Z8Mania
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    Thanks for the kind words. I believe some cars are meant to be red: F40 for example. The 430 in the pic reminds me of (pardon if Im wrong) the Mexico Blue Porsche has. If I was ever going to go to the Porsche side, it would be exactly that car: 997 GT3RS 4.0. What a machine!!!!!!!!!

  23. #23
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Someday I hope! They may be sown in the 150s in the next couple years... I hope.

  24. #24
    Z8Mania
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    They didn't make too many of those 4.0s did they? I bet they hold up pretty strong for a while.

  25. #25
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    The 4.0's are very rare and the last of their kind. I bet they will hold a very strong resale value.
    Marty

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  26. #26
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    TdF 430

    Jerry,

    Beautiful everything!! And the American flag is a beautiful sight as well. I flew one too back when I had a flag pole. I should put one up here. Maybe if we get America back sometime soon?..

    The 430 is super addition to your ?some others?.

    I?m with you on the stick shift. I would have never bought the 575 without it. I would be interested in the F1 type shift if it was on some under powered car (like 1500cc) that you could actually floor the thing and go as fast as you can on normal roads. With 500+ horsepower you could only get in trouble unless you were on a race track.

    I miss the Jaguar 140, TR3, TR4, MGB, Morgan, etc days when you could drive a normal back road as fast as you could go and not be totally risking your life.

    Regards,

    Phil

    61115 Topaz / Crema

  27. #27
    Z8Mania
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    I agree and unlike the CGT, a battery change isn't $20k. (In order to change the battery on a Carrera GT, they have to take apart the whole car- the car is truly a race car......... Its the single finest street performance car I've ever driven, but because it is so much a race car, any little lapse in your attention and it could step out on you and there are no electronic safety systems for those momentary lapses- which we all have- so sadly that (and the price tag and the differed maintenance costs) keep me from that car. In every other respect its stunning)

  28. #28
    Z8Mania
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    Thanks Phil. I love my country, even when I think we're on "the wrong track". It feels good to fly the flag. I'm a believer in life is what you make it, so collectively, its what we make it. We've made a mess and now we have to clean it up. Our politics is not pretty but it seems to me that isn't something unique to these times and I have faith that some how we will find our way back to a good place. Until then I'll be content to do what I can and do my own shifting when I can. I have the F1 cars as well- they have their own pros and cons- but I would not have them if I did not have the stick shifts. You nailed the problem with today's high performance cars- they give you all the performance numbers but not much of the thrill.

  29. #29
    You nailed the problem with today's high performance cars- they give you all the performance numbers but not much of the thrill.
    and that is why I really loved my two little Lotus's so much, terrible transport machines, but wonderful sports cars, and if I was to take one again I'd pick the Elise over the Exige S as its lightness and need to be kept on the boil in its sweet spot were what made it so involving and entertaining to drive.
    Andrew Macpherson

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    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    and need to be kept on the boil in its sweet spot were what made it so involving and entertaining to drive.

    We shifted our brains out in the 60's!! I always wanted to drive a Lotus Elan back then but never got the chance. The '08 era Elise's look terrific.

    Phil

    61115 topaz / Crema

  31. #31
    Z8Mania
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    I agree but the other problem as a transport machine is a SUV sneezes near you and that could be it. But if you have the road to yourself those Lotuses (Loti? ) are glorious.

  32. #32
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Jerry, that is the most beautiful color combination and interior that I have ever seen in a 430. Enjoy!

  33. #33
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    There is a 2011 458 Italia on EBay now that is the same color as your F430. You know what? In that color I like it!
    Marty

    2001 Z8
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  34. #34
    Z8Mania
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    Thanks fellas. People would ask what color the F car is and they expect to hear red. I say blue, which is the opposite and they are dumbstruck. Then when they see it, they love it as much as I do. Its simply a great color.

    I had a 2006 430 spider stick shift in this color but with a lighter interior- it was called "natural". I sold it in 2009 when I thought the world was ending and why did I want to have a bunch of these things hanging around. Then I regretted it- I really regretted it. I didn't regret moving away from the rickety nature of the spider though. So earlier this year I was looking around and I found this car and I said- time to get a stick shift TDF car back before its too late.

    Im sure there are some of us who are more color sensitive than others- I am very much so. To me each car has colors that work best and worse for it.

    As a matter of fact this color really makes me think of the Yes song "Close to the Edge"- I'm not so sure why maybe because this is a complex color and its a complex song. Anyway enough rambling.

  35. #35
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    I have never been a fan of red Ferraris, probably because most of them are red. I do like Silverstone with a red interior though.
    Marty

    2001 Z8
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    2013 Ford Raptor
    2011 Porsche 911 turbo S coupe

  36. #36
    Z8Mania
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    Thats a nice combo. I like the silverstone color. Very elegant.

  37. #37
    Z8 Guru 2112's Avatar
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    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  38. #38
    Z8 Madness
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    Jerry, your F430 looks fantastic. I bet it looks great parked next to your Z8. It must be difficult standing in front of your cars and deciding which one to pick for a nice Sunday drive. Of course, this is a good problem to have.
    2016 Porsche GTS/MT

  39. #39
    Z8Mania
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    Thanks for the kind words. Its a good problem to have. My cars go on lifts as space is somewhat limited. So I tend to rotate in and out of them. That said, out of the choices I have, if its the temperature is moderate and Im going somewhere with nice roads and I just want to relax and enjoy the wind in my hair, there is nothing better than the Z8.