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Thread: Z8 Club controversy...

  1. #1

    Z8 Club controversy...


    This is a public posting of a letter sent to several of us from the man trying to destroy the Z8 Club. Since it was an email I'm posting it as it appeared, with my reply at the top.



    Dear Mr Brauch,

    In America we are great believers that hard work should be rewarded. I personally am delighted to hear that J?rgen and Sylvie have been able to earn 18,000 for all their incredible hard work and dedication to the Club and the car. I know that running the Club and fielding questions from owners around the world occupies around forty hours out of every week, as much time as a full time job. The endless information provided, and the enthusiasm shown by the Wunderlich's and the rest of the board building and maintaining the Club has been nothing short of inspiring. For the efforts they make and the work they do I say that at 18,000 it is a hell of a good deal for all of us!

    My life experience over the last ten years has been massively enhanced by the Wunderlich's tireless work. The Club events I've attended have been amongst the best automotive experiences in my life. The Inauguration, the Villa D'Este, the Mille Miglia and the Ten Year Anniversary in Munich were all perfectly planned and executed, all of which took huge amounts of time to organize, bringing together enthusiasts from all over the world.

    I do not know you, and I have never seen you lift a single finger to help our members, or the owners of the Z8. Personally I wish you would sell your car and leave our club immediately. You pretty bull5hit is nothing more than an ugly, resentful and jealous attack on a wonderful organization and the people who have given ten years of their lives to build something amazing.

    I hope that makes my position absolutely clear.

    Andrew Macpherson




    On May 12, 2012, at 2:22 AM, Helge H. Brauch wrote:

    Hallo Herr Peck,

    Your statement from May 8th, 2012 concerning the Z8 Club is not comprehensible for me. I also can?t comprehend your experiences with the club members named in your letter. I tried to translate my German text analogously for you.

    I bought a Z8 in 2001 ? just as you did.
    I own 4 BMWs ? just as you do.
    But other than you I?m a member of the Z8 Club since its foundation.
    And other than you I was a member of the Board of Directors (Chairman for Public Relations).

    In the first 4 years I created and designed the Z8 Club magazine under the effort of many working hours. Further I designed all logos, badges, leaflets and invitations to tour or events and many more.

    However as in the course of time it became clear to me through many different and distressing incidents that Mr. Wunderlich was not fulfilling his post in the sense of the Clubs statute I decided to retreat from my post of Chairman for Public Relations.

    For this matter I included the ?2 of the statute again and by doing so I noticed a decisive difference between the German and English statute.

    Club purpose (copied from the statute-pdf of the website, accessed on May 10th, 2012 at 19:40h)
    1.The Club has no economic goals, the Club?s activities are not geared to make profit. The Club?s aim is to offer all those interested in the ?BMW Z8? roadster the opportunity, on a non-political platform, to give advise on technical and motor vehicle specific questions, exchange experiences and promote recreational activities of all kinds through the staging of events.

    You can see that the selfless aspect (part in red in the German Version) of the ?2 is missing completely. It is however a fact that the German statute and with that the German applies.

    E.g. Mr. Wunderlich is getting among other things a so called storage fee of 1,500? per month, yet which as he has declared to me and also to other members is foremost an expense for the ?much work? he is doing for the club.

    Until today I find it therefore inexplicable for what reason Mr. Wunderlich as an honorary president of a club (purpose: selfless) pockets a sum in the size of 18.000? a year. Where he is already getting many benefits like e.g. free travels first while viewing the tour sites and again at the joined Z8 tours.

    Another example given:
    He got himself and his Board colleague for finances, Mrs. H?nisch, parts or rather a whole valuable Z8 suitcase set at the expense of the members. To the other members the suitcase set was then sold overpriced.

    The suitcase set he wanted to give to me (on the expense of the other members) back then I returned to him immediately. Mr. Wunderlich then in his ?selfless manner? resold this set immediately with making profit on it.

    I no longer wanted nor could take responsibility for these and many other inconsistencies anymore. Now I ask you, who is here really inflicting damage to the Club?

    I want to spare you further details here as I care mostly, and I hope most of the members in the Club do so too, about BMWs ?Freude am Fahren?!

    Like you did yourself I?m sending this Email to all members.

    Mit freundlichen Gr??en/ Yours sincerely
    Helge H. Brauch



    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  2. #2
    Hi, Andy,
    Thanks for posting. I just joined the club when I bought my car a couple of months ago. My timing as usual is impeccable... Have you / anyone figured out a way to coordinate our proxy votes without flying to Germany?
    TIA,
    Greg
    Greg AH61930 - 2003 - Silver/Black

  3. #3
    Team Z8
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    Very well said Andrew! I have been a member of The Z8 Club for many years and look forward to the annual magazine, goodies, technical updates, and interesting articles. I am greatly looking forward to one day making one of the fall trips.

  4. #4
    Yes, once we have a proxy plan everyone will be notified, but as yet nothing is set.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  5. #5
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Hi Andrew,

    thanks for your reply. We have now seen another two rather ridiculous emails from this group being sent out to all members. The Board has decided not to reply to all members. We are just a couple of weeks away from elections, and whoever wants to change how the Club handles certain affairs can do so by nominating himself and being elected.

    However, allow me to make a couple of personal comments. This group has long passed the point of rational action IMO. This is all about a war against the person J?rgen Wunderlich only, nothing else.

    If we look at a couple of statements, this can easily be demonstrated:

    Quote Originally Posted by Brauch
    In the first 4 years I created and designed the Z8 Club magazine under the effort of many working hours. Further I designed all logos, badges, leaflets and invitations to tour or events and many more.
    This is correct. And the same Mr. Brauch is currently using a lawyer to force the Club to stop using the logo that Brauch has designed. We received such a letter last week and are currently seeking advice. The consequence may mean damage to the Club, because all printed matters may have to be changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brauch
    E.g. Mr. Wunderlich is getting among other things a so called storage fee of 1,500? per month, yet which as he has declared to me and also to other members is foremost an expense for the ?much work? he is doing for the club.

    Until today I find it therefore inexplicable for what reason Mr. Wunderlich as an honorary president of a club (purpose: selfless) pockets a sum in the size of 18.000? a year. Where he is already getting many benefits like e.g. free travels first while viewing the tour sites and again at the joined Z8 tours.
    Well, I had a detailed look at that, because I was a board member at that time as well. There was a board meeting on Nov 24, 2007, where the decision was made to pay J?rgen this amount. According to the minutes, J?rgen left the room for that decision. The decision was made by three board members (with me being absent due to sickness). One of these board members was Brauch. So what is "inexplicable"?

    The same minutes state, by the way, that Brauch didn't pay anything for his participation in the Monaco event (the most expensive club event so far) as a reward for his work on the excellent club magazine. Everything is selfless...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brauch
    Another example given:
    He got himself and his Board colleague for finances, Mrs. H?nisch, parts or rather a whole valuable Z8 suitcase set at the expense of the members. To the other members the suitcase set was then sold overpriced.

    The suitcase set he wanted to give to me (on the expense of the other members) back then I returned to him immediately. Mr. Wunderlich then in his ?selfless manner? resold this set immediately with making profit on it.
    It can easily be documented that the Haenisch's received two baggage sets, and that they paid the same price like everybody else. The set that Brauch returned was, of course, not sold by J?rgen Wunderlich, but by BMW Z8 Club e.V. to another member at the same price as others. J?rgen himself doesn't own a baggage set at all.

    So far about Brauch and his sense of BMW's ?Freude am Fahren?...

    There will probably be even more such emails before the elections, and this one clearly shows the spirit of the people behind all this.
    We live in a democracy, so:
    To whom ever: get your act together, nominate yourself and seek for a majority vote. There are a lot of people in this Club who want to see a positive perspective for the Club and its members. Speak up if you have something good to say about yourself as a candidate, or don't speak at all.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  6. #6
    Dieter, I think all of us here stand with you, J?rgen, Christian and the existing board.

    We all stand ready to act as soon as you need us.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  7. #7
    Z8Mania
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    I really don't know nor do I have the time to know all of the details. All I can say is in the many years I've been a Member of the Club (from the beginning)- as far as I can tell J?rgen, and the other Club people have only done a great job. Is it a violation of something if he's making something for his efforts? I have no idea. If its some kind of fraud, then I really do care, but if not, then I don't need to know everything. I remember discussing the frame issue with J?rgen back in 2006 over the telephone and he took a lot of his personal time to make sure I was updated and had knowledge. These were the actions of someone who genuinely cares and thats how I view J?rgen to this day. Thats just my 2 cents.

  8. #8
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Thanks for the clarifications, Dieter.

    I'm sure the club is looking in to the matter legally, but I would think the the Monaco event would qualify as consideration for the logo and other art generated by Brach. However, isn't the logo based on standard artwork specified by BMW for the recognized international clubs? So...what's he going on about?

    As Andrew said, we're ready support the Club and those that have our interests (the longevity of the Z8) in mind.
    thegunguy

  9. #9
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Rifle, you're right. The biggest portion of the logo is mandated by BMW:



    (ignore the image to the left)
    So the famous design work covers the two white letters and the blue rectangle. That's it.
    I am doing my best to understand why somebody who has developed this blue rectangle and the two letters in his capacity as a board member would try to stop the Club from using it. This is not even going against J?rgen, this is going against the Club. My recommendation to the future board will be to get him out of the Club.

    Thanks for all your support.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  10. #10
    It really seems to me that a small group of mean spirited, childish egos are trying to destroy something wonderful. I really hope they can all be banished from the Club.

    And as for the Club logo, the blue rectangle is mandated by BMW, and they own the Z8 logo, so the only thing that idiot can lay claim to is the proportion on the Z8 in the blue rectangle. Change it by one micron, and he no longer can make any claim to it.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  11. #11
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Um, it's the blue BMW uses in the roundel, and it's the custom type face that BMW used for the Z8 emblem and all documents, marketing materials, etc. I would think that the Z8 script is registered by BMW in many countries as a trademark. So, I'm not sure how anyone could claim rights to using BMW's artwork in a derivative work. I seem to remember that the Club is allowed to use it due to its status as one of the recognized International Clubs.

    How about I take Apple's logo, change it to red, and then claim it as my own. Right...

    Sounds like he's throwing a temper tantrum to me.
    thegunguy

  12. #12
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Besides, as is common with many companies, including non-profits, work generated by employees, officers, etc. on behalf of the company are usually attributed to the company. This can be limited if no consideration has been given.

    Regardless, I don't he has any claim to make, but it's sad that it does create turmoil and work for the existing board to defend the Club's interests.

    Hopefully we can shed all these divisive people soon.
    thegunguy

  13. #13
    Team Z8
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    I, for one, will be glad to do whatever is required of me to expel these A-holes from our wonderful club.

  14. #14
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Yup, he has no claim to that art. It's a joke that he is even taking credit for a format and content, designed, owned and mandated by BMW.

  15. #15
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    This is a disgraceful waste of time, energy,and money defending what has been an amazing ten years of devoted thought and planning on behalf of the Wunderlichs. They have succeeded in building an international bridge between people of all backgrounds based on a shared love for an automobile and the history and excitement that it represents. They have been instrumental in the success of every event, technological improvement, and the wonderful spirit that the club had achieved before all of this mudslinging began. The many hours that they have devoted are the true definition of selfless, in either English or German.
    We have told others who were unhappy with the Z8 and its quirks to stop complaining, sell the car, and move on to try to find something else that would bring them pleasure. I don't think this group that has attacked the Wunderlichs directly and all of us indirectly is capable of finding pleasure in anything, but my advice would be the same- sell your Z8s, realize a good sale price that is largely due to the fame that our club has brought to the car, and move on. Move on very far away.
    I stand ready to do whatever is necessary to show them the door and return the club back to pleasant conversations and exciting anticipation of the next club events.

  16. #16
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenZ8 View Post
    This is a disgraceful waste of time, energy,and money defending what has been an amazing ten years of devoted thought and planning on behalf of the Wunderlichs.
    There is no better way to say it, thank you very much.

    Unfortunately, in today's world, if somebody throws enough mud, some part of it will stick, no matter whether it's true or not. So the Board is in a position right now where we would very much like to talk about more positive things, about improvements, lessons learned etc. And we don't really want to reply to all these weird allegations, because they speak for themselves.
    Or, in other words: If you point one finger at somebody, three fingers of the same hand are pointing to yourself.

    As said before, everybody should focus on naming the best candidates for the Board. We need enthusiasts, people who are willing to invest time and money into this task. We need people who are willing to spend their private vacation time to explore nice drives for club members, write roadbooks, struggle with BMW's spare part department and so on. And yes, it looks like they will have to spend some time on defending every single word they say, every dime they spend, fight back lawyer attacks and who knows what will come in the future. But the Club is worth it.
    If you want to run for the Board, make sure your name doesn't even get close to sounding like "Wunderlich". Probably Woytola may work, Sarkozy or Putin, who knows.

    I apologize for being sarcastic here. But I take my pride in serving on the Board of a magnificent Club, certainly the best of the entire range of BMW certified clubs. And if a former Board member creates such damage to the Club without any recognizable need or reason, then I consider this to be poor.

    So I am very happy to waste my time right now on defending the Club's AND J?rgen Wunderlich's position. It is in line with my personal ethic standards. Errors may have to be corrected, and there is always room for improvement. But we are not a Club of $50 vehicles here. Every single member I ever met had a successful life and deserved respect, so everybody can expect a certain standard of communication here. I learned that at least 4 people don't fit into that scheme. That needs to be fixed soon.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  17. #17
    Z8Mania
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwz8 View Post
    If you point one finger at somebody, three fingers of the same hand are pointing to yourself.
    Well said!

  18. #18
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwz8 View Post
    If you want to run for the Board, make sure your name doesn't even get close to sounding like "Wunderlich".
    I agree with what you have said here and appreciate your keeping us informed over the past several weeks with the exception of the above quote. I believe that the vast majority of members will recognize the Wunderlich name as a leading force behind the club's success after being fully informed about the allegations. Hopefully the proxy/voting system currently in place will recognize the wishes of the members who are unable to attend the meeting in person.

  19. #19
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenZ8 View Post
    I agree with what you have said here and appreciate your keeping us informed over the past several weeks with the exception of the above quote. I believe that the vast majority of members will recognize the Wunderlich name as a leading force behind the club's success after being fully informed about the allegations. Hopefully the proxy/voting system currently in place will recognize the wishes of the members who are unable to attend the meeting in person.
    Ken, just to make sure: this was the sarcastic part.

    What you said reflects exactly what I associate with this name.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  20. #20
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Thanks for clearing up that point. I apologize that my frustration with this situation blinded me from the intended humor.

  21. #21
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Count me in to support Jurgen and Sylvi 100%. This proves the old saying that no good deed goes unpunished. Jurgen has done nothing but good deeds for the club. The fact that he left the room while the board voted on and approved his meager compensation speaks volumes about his character. As my dad used to say, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Much good has come out of the club, most due to the tireless work of the Wunderlichs. This other guy sounds like a real PITA!!!!!
    P.S. Do I have to remove my International Z8 Club sticker from the lower left corner of my windshield since Herr Brauch owns the likeness?
    Marty

    2001 Z8
    2014 Range Rover sport Autobiography
    2013 Ford Raptor
    2011 Porsche 911 turbo S coupe

  22. #22
    Z8Mania
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    The above that J?rgen has done nothing but good for the club is exactly my experience.

    No you don't have to remove any stickers but you do have to send a 275 GTB/4 to:
    Z8 Mania's Vintage Car Collection
    C/O Z8 Mania
    S62 Way
    Motortown, NY 52525


  23. #23
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Funny. I only wish I still had the silver/black 275GTB/4 long nose coupe that my father bought new at Hollywood Sport Cars for the then astounding sum of $14,500!
    Marty

    2001 Z8
    2014 Range Rover sport Autobiography
    2013 Ford Raptor
    2011 Porsche 911 turbo S coupe

  24. #24
    Z8Mania
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    WOW. We coulda bought a 507 10 years ago for 300....

  25. #25
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Don't even get me started. My dad had and sold all of the following cars. 1957 300SL gullwing, 1962 300SL roadster with an aluminum engine block, 1963 Corvette split window fuelie, 1971 Mercedes Benz 280SE 3.5 cabriolet,..... OK. I'm ill now.
    Marty

    2001 Z8
    2014 Range Rover sport Autobiography
    2013 Ford Raptor
    2011 Porsche 911 turbo S coupe

  26. #26
    Ahhh, the shouda, woulda, coulda. The million dollars I lost in the stock market tech bubble crash of 2000 would have bought me an SL300 Roadster and a 507, and had change to spare to restore them back then. I'd almost have the cash to retire from them now, instead I have to work the rest of my life because of the f'ing market!
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  27. #27
    Z8 Guru 2112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    Ahhh, the shouda, woulda, coulda. The million dollars I lost in the stock market tech bubble crash of 2000 would have bought me an SL300 Roadster and a 507, and had change to spare to restore them back then. I'd almost have the cash to retire from them now, instead I have to work the rest of my life because of the f'ing market!

    +1

    I even sold my Black 4,000 mile 850csi to go "all in" in 1999
    .
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    Ahhh, the shouda, woulda, coulda. The million dollars I lost in the stock market tech bubble crash of 2000 would have bought me an SL300 Roadster and a 507, and had change to spare to restore them back then. I'd almost have the cash to retire from them now, instead I have to work the rest of my life because of the f'ing market!
    What he said. Sigh.
    Greg AH61930 - 2003 - Silver/Black

  29. #29
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    If I still had the two 300SL's, the Ferrari and he also had a 1956 300Sc cabriolet, those four alone would fetch somewhere in the neighborhood of $4,500,000 today. Oh well.
    Marty

    2001 Z8
    2014 Range Rover sport Autobiography
    2013 Ford Raptor
    2011 Porsche 911 turbo S coupe

  30. #30
    Z8Mania
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    And if 2000 didn't get you, 2008 did.

  31. #31
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8Mania View Post
    And if 2000 didn't get you, 2008 did.
    ..... and hopefully 2012 won't.
    Dirk

    Alpina #142
    www.bmwccca.com

  32. #32
    Oddly enough last year is what crucified me because I was short the market, and I still don't believe in this manipulated recovery nonsense.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  33. #33
    Z8Mania
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    Sorry Andrew. No kidding Dirk- but in reality its 2012 + 2013. Our leaders better start leading otherwise we're going over at least two large cliffs.

  34. #34
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    I too feel things are far from good but knock wood my car business is back to where it was before the 2008 meltdown. In fact, I'm even busier. I just take it day by day and am very grateful but I do feel the other shoe is going to drop.
    Marty

    2001 Z8
    2014 Range Rover sport Autobiography
    2013 Ford Raptor
    2011 Porsche 911 turbo S coupe

  35. #35
    Z8Mania
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    Thats great Marty. Glad to hear it. Things on my end are good but I don't feel we are going in the right direction.