Results 1 to 44 of 44

Thread: Z8 vs. F355

  1. #1

    Z8 vs. F355

    Sorry, I hope that I don't start anything too controversial on my first day on the forum, but I thought these two possibilities might open up some interesting conversation...maybe even some personal experience from someone who has had the fortune to drive both cars.
    These days a nice 2001-2002 Z8 is priced closely to a 1998 Ferrari 355 spider with 6 speed. They are obviously two different cars, but I would be curious to hear how members feel about these alternatives in terms of weekend and daily driving, service, parts and future value.
    Thanks.

  2. #2

    They are really quite different machines.....

    with quite different mission statements. One is a classic front engined GT in the mould of the greats of an earlier time, including many great F cars, the other is an ultimate mid-engined super sports car. The Z8 is quick enough, but it isn't really about ultimate speed, if maximum velocity is your only concern then I'd get a new Corvette Z06, a GT3 Porsche or even a 575 Maranello (one of my favorite cars of all time.). A quartz swatch watch will always keep better time than a Philippe Patek, but the Patek isn't just about keeping time.

    The 355 was already the previous model when the Z8 came out. I remember reading two reviews of the Z8 vs. the 360 spider, one in CAR in the UK and the other in R&T here in the US, and both gave the nod to the 360 as the ultimate driver's car, but both also sung the praises of the Z8's engine, ability and style. CAR's review of the Z8 was so good that it was the final deciding factor in the purchase of my first Z8.

    I have only been a passenger in a 355, and I greatly enjoyed it, but IMHO the F cars date really badly, (seen a Testarossa lately?) and also are rather expensive to run if you are keen on clocking up the miles. I wouldn't say they are unreliable, but the servicing costs are very, very high, and come at 15,000 and 30,000 mile intervals. I understand that the 30K service can run you between $15-$20K, which is just more money than I'm prepared to spend on maintenance.

    I had long thought of owning an F car, but close inspection of facts and figures drove me right into BMW's hands when they introduced the Z8. The Z8 can be made to handle much better, as we have been discussing, and I think that it can get pretty close to the ability of the 360, but it will never have that race track tightness or visceral staccato howl. It will always be a lazier, less hurried way of going fast, with a baritone bellow and growl. (once you change the exhaust.)

    The 355 is now two F cars back, pre the 360 and 430, making it an old Ferrari, but not a classic like the 275GTO etc. There is no new Z8, and never will be, it was a one off made to celebrate the 507, and embrace the company's desire to create a special limited edition collector's car.

    The Z8 is to BMW what the Enzo is to Ferrari, a unique pinnacle car built by the company's very best craftsmen. I feel that buying a 355/360/430 is like buying a 3 series BMW, not in its ability or feel, but in terms of it's placement within the company's product line. If you follow my train of thought where I'm leading with this is that in the fullness of time the pinnacle cars will be the more important, more collectable and thus more valuable ones, so I'd put my money on a Z8 (or an Enzo if I could! :-) )
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  3. #3
    Andrew, very nicely put with your typical objectivity.
    When one sits in a F355, one is reminded of an '80's Fiat. I know...I had two. Driving the car, though, does create a resonance within most people in the most visceral sense. I agree that the 355 was not the pinnacle car for Ferrari, but it does stir the soul in a different manner than the Z8. While these two cars are priced similarly and have similar 0-60 times, these are two cars that one (wealthier than I) could justify sharing space in one man's garage.

  4. #4
    2001/Titan/Red Z8Cookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    58

    Better than a 360!

    Found this feature Here

    "Performance specs touted a 0 to 100 km/h (0 to 62 mph) time of 4.7 s, which was later tested at 4.2 s by Motor Trend magazine. Car and Driver magazine also tested the car and found that it outperformed the benchmark Ferrari 360 Modena in the main three performance categories: acceleration, handling and braking. The Z8 held BMW's production car performance records for several years."


    Colin

  5. #5
    Sport Button On
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    41

    Talking

    I recently went through a similar calculus before buying my Z8. I was thinking about an F360 or F550, however. I'm a true tifoso, I should add, having been to Maranello and Fiorano (Michael was testing that day!), and following Ferrari in F1 for decades (yes, even this dismal year). I've always lusted after one of the cars, but visions of nightmare repair bills, unreliability, and monster regret (you knew this would happen, you dumbass, but you bought the freaking thing anyway!), as well as my CPA wife's reluctance to tie up that much money in a car, have restrained me.

    I think Ferrari's are better and more reliable than they used to be, especially if they don't have the F1 transmission, but they're still very expensive to maintain. If I recall correctly, on the F355 you have to pull the engine to change the belts, and that has to be done every 15,000 miles or so. Since I don't live anywhere near a trusted Ferrari dealer, this added to my concern.

    My brother (also a car nut) had two salespeople at two different high-end dealerships say to him (when he mentioned that I was trying to decide between a Z8 and a late-model Ferrar): "Tell him to buy the Z8. They're great cars and they're reliable. Sometimes, we can't even get the Ferrari's started here on the lot."

    I do think that the Z8 has many of the attributes of a car that will appreciate in value - classic looks, status marque; limited production; contemporary performance - but I also think that thinking of cars as investments is probably not the wisest thing to do - to me it's an entertainment expense, and boy, is it entertaining!

    Best yet, my wife thinks the car is gorgeous, and was happy for me to buy it.

    One other thing that may be of interest. A German friend who's a bit of a car collector (last I heard, he had offers out on an F355 and a Z8 - daily drive is a Porsche turbo cab) said to me when I told him I was thinking about buying a Z8: "Beautiful car! You'll never lose money on it. Prices here are starting to head back up again."

    Hope this helps.

  6. #6
    Z8 Novice
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1
    i decided to revive this thread instead of starting a new one. i own a 95 355 GTS in perfect condition (red/tan 16k miles). i'm looking to sell it to get into a Z8. if anyone is thinking about making the move in the opposite direction, please contact me. i will pay cash for the difference in value.

    [email protected]

  7. #7
    Team Z8 RRZ8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    417
    Good choice Nick ! Hope you sell the 355 quickly !

  8. #8

    Feel free to PM me for Z8 info...

    as there are a few things to keep an eye open for.

    The one thing you must remember is that the Z8 won't be quite as exciting to take for a short burst through the canyons as the F-car, so try to get a decent drive in one so you know exactly what you are getting into before making the jump.

    Of course all of us here prefer the Z8, but the F-cars are very involving and fun to drive, and jumping into a Z8 might be a bit of surprise, as it is a much, much calmer car with very different characteristics.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  9. #9

    A year plus into ownership of a Z8

    When I started this thread, it was really a toss-up between the cars. I can now tell you that, after driving the Z8, some F cars and a Porsche GT-2, I am more firmly convinced that the Z8 is one of the best cars on the planet. In terms of that personal balance (personal, of course) of (old time) roadster visceral feel, fun, performance, elegant styling, driveability, and uniqueness, I don't think that I would pick another long term car ... and. for me, that would include all the Spiders up to the F430.
    All in all, it makes the Z8 a great value.

  10. #10
    Sport Button On
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    35
    That's just what I love about the Z8. 2 years ago a Z8 was (pricewise) comparible to a nice F355. Today (at least here in Germany, actually I would be interested in the US price levels, in Europe you basically don't get anything reasonable beyond ?95k) the Z8 is on one level with the F360. I think it will continue like that and in a few years you'll get the F430 at the same price. The Z8 really doesn't seem to age. It's timeles. For example, everybody is talking about LED lights for markers, brakelight... our neon lights are simply above this issue. No one else got them, they're unique, you can't compare. I know thats just one little aspect, but it's basically like that with the whole car.
    Anyway, to get back to topic, I think switching from an F-Ferrari to the Z8 will always be a great deal!
    Klaus

  11. #11

    US prices

    I use Autotrader to keep an overview on the US market.

    Today there are 49 Z8's for sale:
    $129,888........Highest price
    $77,900..........Lowest price
    $101,769........Average price

    There are 102 F355's
    $129,000........Highest price
    $39,350..........Lowest price
    $87,128..........Average price
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  12. #12
    Sport Button On
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    35
    I just checked www.mobile.de and F355s go from ?46000 to ?88500 maximum. For some reason they seem to be cheaper here, at least the low-milage, good condition ones.

  13. #13

    Remember that most of the ones here

    that are shown at very high prices are at 'Exotic dealers' in the rich states of Florida & California where there is plenty of 'silly money' floating around, so these guys are just trying it on. You'll see the same thing if you look at the 360,
    $249,900......Highest price
    $89,500........Lowest price
    $167,931.......Average price

    You'd have to be a complete idiot to pay quarter a million for a 360, but there are several dealers in Florida priced and ready to go when one walks in the door! Makes me remember the expression 'A fool and his money are easily parted'.

    Look at the prices on the 430, and remember MSRP is between $168,005 - $227,000
    $339,988......Highest price
    $209,500......Lowest price
    $276,438......Average price

    They are fab cars to drive, but I wouldn't want to own one, they date so badly, and you can't use them because of the crazy depreciation, and the lousy long term service and care costs. BMW's 50 year promise to support the Z8 was one of the key factors in both my decision to buy the Z8 and start this site, because I understood that people would by and large be buying the Z8 would be like minded enthusiasts buying for the long term, and not fliping it when this year's new plastic pony arrives.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  14. #14
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    229

    Ferrari and BMW

    We were talking about this at the museum yesterday. Ferrari, and Italian automakers in general, seem to have little sense of tradition or history (with the exception of ALFA Romeo, who brought back the 1750 name, but that was 'way back in 1969). There have been some achingly beautiful Ferraris but there was never any lineage that descended from them. Imagine if Ferrari had done a "Z8" based on something like the 250 SWB Lusso or a 275 GTB.

  15. #15

    Ferrari's push to be the latest and greatest...

    and make the fastest, winningest cars in the world also makes for the fastest shapes to date. The last really beautiful Ferrari's were made over forty years ago.

    Will the stunning Alfa 8C help rekindle the elegance from Italy at a time when Germany has lost all sight of what a beautiful car is? Alfa is part of Fiat, just like Maserati & Ferrari, and it will use the 430's motor, but unlike the Z8 which was BMW's flagship it won't be Ferrari's flagship, it won't even wear a Ferrari badge, it'll just be another fancy Fiat, all be it a very, very pretty one.

    The quest for speed, handling, and modernity brought about all the changes that kept Ferrari World Champions. The change to the mid-engined cars starting in the '60's was born of the race track, but shortly after the pretty little Dino they all seemed to become ugly plastic finned things driven by hairy chested men with thick gold chains. Magnum and Miami Vice tainted the mid-engined cars forever for me, they were no longer true enthusiasts cars, they became vulgar fashion accessories, and still seem to remain so as their pricing above continues to show.

    Please don't misunderstand my comments, the 'achingly beautiful' Ferrari's of my youth are the cars that defined my own image of how a car should look. We all long for the dreams of our childhood, and mine was full of boyish wonder inspired by the gorgeous cars from Maranello. The 250, the 275, the California Spyder will forever be some of my most favorite cars, but there are many more. Our Z8 pays elequent and poetic homage to the elegance of those golden years.

    Below is an appreciation and a reminder of the intense beauty that was Ferrari.
     
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  16. #16

    So true about the past lineage

    My favorite was the 330 GTS. Though perhaps not as pretty as the 330 GTC with the flowing roof line, it is a spider, so it would be my choice for a past Ferrari.
     

  17. #17
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    229

    Andrew....

    The pseudo-Ferrari used on Miami Vice was supposed to be a 365 Daytona - a front-engined car. It was actually a rebodied Corvrette. It also suffered form being sa US-spec car. The Dayton had a full-width clear cover over the headlights in most markets. At the time clear covers, as well as quartz-halogen headlights were illegal here. We got stuck with pop-up round sealed beams. When sold in the US, my ALFA came with the headlight covers in the trunk. Engine placement was not responsible for the decline in design, as mid engined cars such as the Lamborghini Miura or Ford GT-40 prove

    YES! These are the beautiful Ferraris - your taste is impeccable. If you would care to visit some of these, come to Blackhawk when you are in the Bay area. On a smaller scale, I have found a couple of superb 1:18th scale models of classic Ferraris. The 250 is a readily available CMC. This is a really good German company that has just ventured into 1:18 models. They have a fulll range of the silberpfeile Grand Prix cars of the 1930s, a W196 streamliner and a Birdcage Maserati that has to be seen to be believed.

    The 335 is a BBR -- I waited 6 months for it and believe a few are still available. It took me a couple af days to get up the nerve to take some tweezers to unbuckle the hood straps and swing the catches aside to take a look at the engine. It is the first model I have seen where the gearshift can be moved through the selector gate.
       

  18. #18

    Ohhh, those are lovely....

    and I'm really looking forward to a Blackhawk visit, may well come this year as a dry run for the big one next year, but we're all still in the early planning stages of that. I don't know why but my memory of Miami Vice is a 512BB in white, which looked really plasticy. I guess it was either another TV show or a movie of that period? Problem with getting older, my memory has a way of making a salad of the past!
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  19. #19
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    229

    Miami Vice

    The white Testarossa was in the movie, the erstaz Daytona in the TV show.

  20. #20

    1950's and 1960's rears

    Can someone explain why the front of cars like the Ferrari 250's (Lusso's) are beautiful and timeless, but the rears with the bulb light treatments are so bland?
    Could it be that technology advanced later allowing more complicated red plastic forms for rear lights - sort of how headlight technology "advanced" beyond the standard round headlight?

  21. #21
    DSC Off
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    70

    for the record.....

    ....the white testarossa was in the TV series as well...at least the last year or so of the series.

  22. #22
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    229

    Taillights

    At least in the 1950s there was a good chance that the taillights weren't plastic but glass. My MG TF has glass taillights, and I live in fear and dread of ever breaking one. Bcause glass has a higher melting temperature, the molds for them need to be capable of withstanding these higher temperatures and are much more expensive. As a result, you see lots of cars using identical taillight lenses. Polycarbonates, used for modern taillights weren't around until the 1970's. Lenses made from polystyrene were quite weak and didn't have the strength to support large units.

    Polycarbonate headlight lenses weren't used until the 1980s. Some cars had model or marque specific glass lenses, but the cost of molds limited them to high volume vehicles. In the US, composite headlights weren't allowed as 7" and 5-3/4" inch sealed beams were type specified. US laws were so draconian that Jaguar and BMW couldn't use the 7" rounds low beam / 5-3/4" system they used in the UK and Europe, even though each individual lamp was approved for use in the US (the combination wasn't).

  23. #23
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    2,471

    Those are very cool models

    Quote Originally Posted by FWK-Z8 View Post
    The 335 is a BBR -- I waited 6 months for it and believe a few are still available. It took me a couple af days to get up the nerve to take some tweezers to unbuckle the hood straps and swing the catches aside to take a look at the engine. It is the first model I have seen where the gearshift can be moved through the selector gate.
    I have about 15 CMCs (and many others) including the SWB & Birdcage, but that 335 is awesome! How/where did you order it?

    Thanks


    Ian

  24. #24
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    229

    BBR Ferrari 375

    Sorry I misquoted the number. I found it at Designs in Motion.

    It is order number HE1803. They just got a new shipment in, and it looks slike they still have a few. I have to check out the Mercedes Streamliner I saw over at Auto Affair. Do you have/have seen the Kyosho 1:12 Z8? Damn! looks like they are doing a Carrera 375 and Exoto has a 250 GTO coming out - the Visa card is getting warm.

    An interesting story regarding Ferraris and the Carrera Panamericana. My mother was in an assited living home. There was this elderly gentleman who sat our on the front porch all the time who was mad at the world. I pulled up one day in my New Beetle. He called out "Do you know what a Karmann Ghia is?" I replied "1300 or 1600, we only got 1300s in the US". Well, we started talking about cars. Every night he would wait for me and we would sit around and he would tell me about the early days of the sports car movement in the US. It was fascinating as he put personalities to names about which I had only read. He owned a Ferrari 340 Mexico and became freinds with Luigi Chinetti, and told me how he put him up to buying a 300SL so Chinetti could ship it to Maranello so Ferrari coud take the fuel injection apart. He told of a plant tour of Ferrari, where Enzo joined them for lunch, sat next to his wife, then dispateched the underling and gave hs wife and him a personal tour. I was on the 'net and one day wondeed about David and the Mexico and Googled "David Leopold"+Buffalo+Ferrari 340 Mexico. It ended up that he didn't own just any 340 Mexico, but the one driven by Alberto Ascari in the race.

  25. #25

    What a lovely tale indeed!

    I have a couple of the big Kyosho cars, ( which are pretty nice, though not 100% acurate) as well as many others in my ever expanding collection. These pix are a few years old, I also have the full 'dealer model' set that I bought from the Z8 Club, which is still boxed up in the attic, but my favorite remains the crystal block that we did the group buy of a few years ago, the play of the early light in this low winter sun is just spectacular. I also have a couple of silver arrow MB's from CMC which I love, I hope they'll do a Z8 too one day!
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  26. #26
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    229

    Models

    There is a fellow by the name of Paul Kravchak that is well-known in diecast circles for doing really beautiful mods to models. My 1:12 is black but has a red interior. I want to send it to him to get the interior changed to black/crema. I have the 1/8 Kyosho that I repainted the top boot on to match the Crema interior, and used Model Masters taillight red to change it from a Euro to a US Z8. I even found a couple of straight pins make convincing boot hold down buttons. BMW has a coiple of good 1:18 507s that are good to use to show how the relationship betwen that car and the Z8. Kyosho does too good a job hiding the underside screws as I have an Indanapolis Red M6 from them with a black interior. I'm dying to take it apart and shoot the interior in Sepang so I can see what my new car will look like. I have the "family albumn" of BMW - starting with an Eisenach, 328. Isetta. 507, 2002tii, Z3, Z8, M6 and Mini -- I should line them all up for a family portrait.

  27. #27
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    229

    Elegant performance

    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    A quartz swatch watch will always keep better time than a Philippe Patek, but the Patek isn't just about keeping time.
    Not Philippe Patek, but Tag Heuer may be giving the quartz watche a real run for their money with the 360 Caliber movement - classic, elegant with world class performance - the Z8 of watches?
     

  28. #28

    Wow, that is really elegant....

    I've always had a soft spot for the Daytona, and for years I've almost bought one, but finally I think I found one I like enough to reach that deeply for. This face is made with a microthin sliver of a meteorite, and the crytalization pattern only occurs in deep space, which as an keen star gazer appeals to me a lot!
     
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  29. #29
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    229
    Very nice, but...
    The face reminds me of the mother-of-pearl instrument cluster of a 540K. THe Daytona is a beautiful instrument. Like BMW, the value of the Heuer is under the hood, not on it -- to borrow the MB analogy. The Rolex 4130 movement used by the Daytona oscillates at 28,800 beats/hour. I was pretty smug with my Link Chronometer's 36,000/hr - making it the first mechanical chromograph to measure to 1/10th second. The little beauty above betters that by an order of magnitude, running in chronograph mode at an outstanding 360,000/hr anf 1/100th second accuracy (in normal timekeeping mode it only runs at Rolex' 28.8K). Before Rolex developed the 4130, they were using Zenith el Primero movements - Zenith is the parent company of TAG Heuer.

  30. #30
    I know Zenith is now under the LVHM badge, but I didn't realize they had also bought TAG, I thought they were still privately owned.

    Does this fab new TAG 360 run a Zenith movement or is it a TAG developed movement? Also is there a price on it anywhere, couldn't find anything about availability on line, but here is a link to TAG's 360 page.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  31. #31
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    229
    They're not saying if its a Zenith. There will be 300 of the rose gold ones made at $18K. I tried my jeweler, but the one they're goiing to get is already spoken for. I might try my old jeweler in VT - very little place but you can sometimes get stuff because they give all the dealers at least one.

  32. #32
    If you have any luck I'd like a steel one too, if you can find a price or availability on it.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  33. #33

    found these additional pix of it...

    really is a good looking piece, I like the black/steel combo a lot. I still can't find anyone who is selling it in LA?
       
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  34. #34
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    229
    The bottom one is the ultra-rare (ultra expensive) white gold limited edition. I love how Japanese advertising can take a $20K watch and make it look like something you would find in the bottom of a cereal box.

    My jeweler is telling me that the watch will be over here sometime next year. Surprised that jewelers in LA don't know anything about it Topper in Burlingame is well versed on it - perhaps it isn't flashy enough for tinseltown?

    Have you checked the TAG Heuer website?

    http://www.tagheuer.com/

  35. #35

    The direction of design

    The more I look at my car magazines, the more I am coming of the realization that either the designs are moving as a group further away from the Z8 roadster style or I am getting older, or most likely both.
    Below is the latest pic from Autoweek showing the upcoming Supra. Toyota is a smart company and is frequently on the nail in predicting trends. This leads me to the conclusion that the era of swoopy flowing style epitomized by our car may have ended. Cars like the Supra and the new Evo indicate that that we have entered the era of hard, sharp lines declaring "Edginess".
    While Cadillac may be given credit for bringing the edgy style into the mainstream, Chris Bangle can be given credit for trying to meld smooth style with frank disruptions in expected lines ("The B Butt"). That styling conflict probably explains the trouble that I had taking a liking to Mr. Bangles' styles, as much as I have wanted to.
    This evolution along more harsh lines is not necessarily bad. I find it interesting enough that I might consider buying such a car. But it is, in a way, a little sad to see this overall change away from the styles that we are so familiar with. We can feel pretty good that we just may have captured the best of the last era.
     

  36. #36

    I hate to admit it....

    but I actually like that Toyota, I think it looks much edgier, more modern and sexier than anything from Germany. The new Audi R8 is such a deep disappointment, yet it's sister Gallardo really looks much more modern and current than the better driving F430 when you see the two parked together. I also like the new sharp Caddy design, it gives the old brand a much needed excitement, but IMHO all the current BMW's just look stogy, ugly and boring, except the Z4 which is just plain hideous.

    I think what we like about the Z8 is what my Father loved about the big flowing mudguards of the Cords and Duseys, it speaks of an elegance we always aspired to, but the kids of today are learning about cars from Gran Tourismo, and in a video game the Gallardo looks way cooler than a 430, so I won't be surprised if the kids of today will favor the 05 vintage Lambo as their keeper/classic in the 2035.

    The Z8 is the nod to a style that is gone forever, like the steam train, and will always be a reminder of another time, a time that to us is the Golden Age of Motoring.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  37. #37
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    229

    "Edgy" designs are not new

    The new "edgy" designs remind me of the mid 1970s "origami" cars, primarily the early works of Giorgetto Giugaro. These were very clean and crisp. The difference between these and current designs its that today a lack of talent is coverd up by shock value.

  38. #38
    DSC Off
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    60
    My friend's thermostat and fan went out on his 330 GT. It cost $4,400 and it still isn't right. I told him to to just take pictures of his car and let people enjoy looking at it in the garage.

    By the way Andrew, I think you can buy half of an Enzo in Malibu. Just look along the side of PCH.
    ____________________________

    Bob Adler

  39. #39
    Sport Button On - DSC Off FWK-Z8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    229
    Probably a part shared with a Fiat.

    Having owned two ALFAs I suspect Italian companies use a ouija borad to determine parts prices. An outer door handle for a later ALFA Spider is $600. I suspect it may be a matter of a parts fame -- if its used on a Ferrari, the prices starts at $500 even if its straight out of the Fiat parts bin.

  40. #40

    Then I guess repairing that Enzo won't be cheap!

    That mad Malibu story, and Dietrich's ability to scale a steep and thorny mountain-side faster than Superman while drunk and in shock, are now the stuff of automotive legend!

    The difference between these and current designs its that today a lack of talent is coverd up by shock value.
    or could it just be the shocking lack of talent is covered up with clever justifications?
    "You'll grow to love it, wait and see."
     
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  41. #41

    Future Z10?

    Found this on another site - talked about as "the" new Z10. Of course, nothing verified.
    My opinion - too close to the Ferrari mold.
     

  42. #42
    There was much talk of this mid-engined car during the time of the inagural Z8 Club get together in Munich in '05. I think it was in part the dream of the now departed CEO of M Division to have a new M car along the lines of the M1, and this car could have been either the M10 or Z10, using the V10 motor from the M5/6.

    I haven't any real inside scoop on this, just what I've read in the mags, but it is my understanding that BMW's focus is to come up with a high volume front engined two seater to go head to head with the SL rather than another limited production car like our Z8. It is talked about elsewhere here, and has been refered to as 'the next Z8' in the press, though it has also been refered to as a Z6. Those same articles said this mid-engined project had been shelved.

    However that car is rather pretty, it looks more like the upcoming Lotus Esprit which is rumoured to have a BMW powerplant. Maybe someone saw the new Esprit at BMW and mistook it for a BMW? In the drawing it looks like a Lambo/Ferrari mix with a BMW grille, but it is much too attractive to wear BMW badge, they'll need to give to the Design Depatment to make it ugly first, then the Marketing Deparment to iDrive it, give it boat anchor wheels and further dumb down the engineer's excellence! ;-)
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  43. #43

    ?What's in store for Monterey?

    It seems that BMW would want to release something dramatic at Monterey in 2008.

  44. #44
    Those are very different sides of the company, and certainly not in sync with each others cycles, so I certainly wouldn't expect that. I spoke to one of the gents at BMW NA who is at the sharp end of the wedge of planning these things, and he said that it still isn't confirmed that BMW is the marque of honor for the '08 event, it seems this doesn't get decided until much closer to the event itself, but even if it isn't I think we are still a go, as we will have to lock in all our plans before BMW announces it officially.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.