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Thread: This'll send a shiver down your spine!

  1. #1

    This'll send a shiver down your spine!

    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  2. #2
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    Andrew,
    I have been following these guys for quite some time and, almost embarassed to admit it, agree with their assessments. I have been reacting accordingly.
    Chris

  3. #3
    Z8 Madness
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    Scary stuff.
    62050 - Z8

  4. #4
    Indeed, it is worse than any horror movie, yet it could become our reality!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  5. #5
    Sport Button On Cytoboy's Avatar
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    Not as much of a "shiver" as a consideration to premedicate with your favorite serotonin reuptake inhibitor, and perhaps haloperidol (the latter for those so inclined, but not I). Our time is better spent concerned with family affairs, and things that we can influence, than doomsday pessimism that is all too common today. Let's focus on healthy things, such as collectible vehicles, and the like. Just my 2 centavos!

  6. #6
    Z8 Madness
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    I do agree that there is a very real possibility the monetary events outlined in the movie will happen. The part that I disagree with is ordinary people's quick reaction to any such event. I don't think the general public is sophisticated enough to understand what's happening. At least not as quickly as suggested in the movie.

    I also don't think a major crash will be triggered by China, they have too much to lose. The trigger will likely be North Korea attacking the south with nuclear weapons or Iran going against Israel.
    62050 - Z8

  7. #7
    Agreed with both of you!

    I spend so much time studying all this that I take it for greanted that eveyone else must know what I'm learning too, but Tony, I guess you're right.

    Sadly most of what I'm uncovering is on the darker side, and on the lighter side of life nobody seems to be into playing cars anymore. The level of actual car talk and car activity has almost vanished, which I sort take as part and parcel of the time we're living through.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  8. #8
    Sport Button On Cytoboy's Avatar
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    I completely agree that we must be educated about our current affairs and general direction as a nation, and I too am concerned that some of our empowered ones have made choices right or wrong that we now must live with. Our mission is to influence change where it is appropriate and reasonable, but also to accept certain situations that we have little control over. The latter concept will provide much needed peace and a better sense of well-being, in my opinion.

    By the way: Happy Thanksgiving to all!

  9. #9
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    The dominos are falling. Greece. Now Ireland. Portugal soon. All bank bail outs at taxpayer expense. The US next? Our National Debt as % of GDP is now 60%, exactly where Greece was and still is, despite the bailouts. Inflation is in the US is inevitable according to most things I have read but to what extent is what is unknown. The movie portrays a severe reaction from China but whether the Chinese will react that way is debatable as we are still their biggest consumer retail market. The thing I question is this, they talk about China "dumping" the US dollars but in favor of what? The yuan? The Euro? Doubtful. IF they did either, that would not help their situation and only serve to devalue the dollar more and make their problem worse. Also, dump the USD where? Who is going to buy it? Granted, the USG / Fed has started buying our US treasuries back but I do not understand how exactly this is supposed to help stabilize anything or ease "investor fears" or ease China's concerns.

    Agree -- keep family close and protect your "Ass-ets" as best you can.
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  10. #10
    Freedom Ouray's Avatar
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    Slightly different perspective as I do think we are capable of influencing everything but mother nature (I know global warming but you get my drift) if we organize ourselves but agree with the goals. Ronald Reagan's 1964 "A Time for Choosing" speech sums life up fairly well 46 years after he gave it. www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1964reagan1.html

    Happy Thanksgiving to all.

  11. #11
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Whether you liked him or not, Reagan had an amazing ability to see what was best for the American people and to limit the Government's role as much as possible in our everyday lives. This text from his speech made in 1964 is as relevant or more relevant today than when it was first made back in 1964. Yeah, the film Andrew posted at the beginning of this thread is indeed scary, but if any or all of it were to become true, I think it will happen more gradually over time than all in one day. Commodities to me are in a bubble and as we all know, bubbles eventually pop. As tempting as gold and silver are, I am staying in cash. I think the best thing to do is rid yourself of as much debt as you can. Try and own everything you have outright so your life is free and clear of debt. Once that is done, save as much as you possibly can. Don't know if I am right or not, but that is the plan I am following.
    Marty

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  12. #12
    Z8Mania
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    I agree with you all.

    First off, Andrew, if you or anyone wants to have fun car talk, etc, Im always game. Lifes too short not to enjoy it, but lets face it as the economy goes south, we tend to focus on the money more and that can suck the joy out of hobbies.

    My own 2 cents are summed up by the above 3 posters (Marty, Ouray and Jeff). I think the Euro is likely finished and will have to be unwound over several years. The EU to me is a nice idea but a bit of a failed experiment. I remember someone bragging that they wanted to be paid in Euros instead of dollars, maybe it was a Victoria's Secret model, I wouldn't want to be in that position today! I think so long as we avoid a full out nuclear conflict we should be OK, but it doesn't mean there won't be bumps along the way. The best way to deal with them aside the good advice given above is with MPS2 and Alpina suspension plus dinan sway bars and Quaife diff with 3.64 gears and a nice sounding exhaust and of course PP and CDV delete.

    Happy Thanksgiving to everyone celebrating it and for those not celebrating, be thankful.

  13. #13
    Well said!!

    I'm not sure how many folks use the standard front page with the rotating random gallery images to come to the forum. I do because each time I click in there's another magic memory. So on the subject of thanks, I'm so grateful for being able to afford a Z8, my dream car, and for the wonderful group of fellow enthusiasts it has introduced me to. (with only a couple of exceptions - anyone remember Orangemarlin?!!)

    From the little local morning runs here in LA to Meet in the Middle, Oregon, and the incredible drives in Europe with the Club it has been an amazing ten year adventure in a stunningly gorgeous car - long may it continue for us all!!

    Thank you BMW too!! :-))
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  14. #14
    Z8 Madness
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    We really should do another LA meet before the end of the year. We can discuss economy as we usually do. The irony of standing in a a car lot full of exotic cars and complaining about all the problems we face in this country is very amusing to me -- especially having lived in a number of 3rd world countries

    Marty, are you game?
    62050 - Z8

  15. #15
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    So very true Tony. I will be at Motor for Toys at the Anthem Blue Cross building parking lot in Woodland Hills a week from Sunday, which is the 5th of December. I love bringing lots of toys so children who would otherwise have nothing to celebrate can have a nice Christmas. As I am currently without Z8 I will be in my new Ford F150 Raptor. I am up for a drive but will either have to ride shotgun or take my Raptor
    Marty

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  16. #16
    Z8 Novice
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    Happy Thanksgiving everyone cheers

  17. #17
    Z8 Madness
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    I'll try to make it to the Motor for Toys, lets hope the weather remains nice.
    62050 - Z8

  18. #18
    Z8 Madness
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayvenhurstkid View Post
    As I am currently without Z8 I will be in my new Ford F150 Raptor.
    This car of ours is very addictive. Once you've had a one, you'll always want one. I predict you'll end up with a Z8 again fairly soon.

    I recall macfly being away at a wedding on that day, so I'm not sure how many Z8s will be around. If anything, we can always enjoy the cars and then head over to a local valley spot for an early lunch.
    62050 - Z8

  19. #19
    Yes, I'll be in Mexico on the 5th, but I'm around during the entire Christmas-New Year break, so maybe we can get something with a group of us together then.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  20. #20
    Z8Mania
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    I do use the gallery as the load page for the website- I also like seeing the pics. Andrew, you have done a wonderful job with setting up and maintaining this website. Well done.

  21. #21
    Thanks Jerry!!

    Getting back to the stuff going on the world, and the economy there are a few voices out there who are really worth listening too. This is Nigel Farage's address to the European Parliment yesterday. You may remember him from for this blistering attack of the last UK priminister a year and a half ago.

    Andrew Macpherson

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  22. #22
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    Andrew,


    Those are two good videos. I watched them with a friend and we both got up and cheered when Mr. Farage finished.


    I think I heard Jerry yell ?Right On? even though I?m the length of Pennsylvania away! LOL!


    I afraid our current POTUS thinks like the people Mr. Farage?s is speaking against.



    Phil
    61115 Topaz/Crema now with Meisterschaft GT.

  23. #23
    Z8Mania
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    You have that correct.

  24. #24
    I just got the opporunity to watch a screening of Inside Job, and I have to say it is both incredible, and heart breaking.

    There is no better work summing up the complete capture of Washington by Wall St, the very people who brought you the Great Recession are the very people still in power, and in many case on all the government panels that are supposed to be making recommendations on finance!

    The foxes are not just gaurding the hen house, they've taken over the farm.

    Andrew Macpherson

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  25. #25
    Team Z8
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    Yes Andrew, I do remember Orangemarlin. From memory, he was a bit full of himself and I used to get a kick following the go-arounds with yourself and him. What ever happened to Greasemonkey by the way? I do miss him.
    Chris

  26. #26
    Freedom Ouray's Avatar
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    Barney Frank has as much responsibility as any one on the street when it comes down to the home ownership fiasco. Look into his blind support of fannie and feddie during the past 20 years and you will not be able to believe that he has the nerve to sit up in DC and judge anyone. Both agencies were treated as if they were piggy banks for politicians which is why they turned a blind eye to the fiasco that was in plain sight. This does not excuse excess on Wall Street. In the NE we have a retailer that features the tag line, "An educated consumer is our best customer". This movie does not appear to be created with that consumer in mind. The movie would could have done better then to select Barney Frank who is up to his eyes in culpability and a discredited former Governor of NY who pretends to be "Mr. Law and Order" to be key spokespersons in the trailer.

  27. #27
    He was certainly one of the most interesting and knowledgable early posters, and it is a great sadness he decided to withdraw from 'public life'. I do hear of him from time to time through those who are in personal contact, and I know that he is still honing and perfecting his Dinan race engined monster, as well as enjoying his other cars. I did specifically invite him and his Dinan special to the big Monterey 08 gathering, but he declined saying he prefered to enjoy his car and his life in private.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  28. #28
    Ouray, we 'cross-posted' and I missed your answer.

    I also found some of the choices odd, but of course they spoke to those they could get, and through the film as they illustrate each players role, they say that this one and that one refused to be interviewed for the film. It is not a work made for a professional like yourself with a deep understanding of the situation, or an addict like me, it is a documentary that illustrates the breadth and depth of political capture, and the total corruption in Washington in a way that needs to be seen. Sadly most of those who should take the time to watch it likely never will, but none the less it is a good, clear and well rounded work.

    Speaking of your professional view, I would really love to get your take on this short film, it is a seven minute trailor for a much longer feature. The full thing is a little long, and its device a little annoying, but at its core it suggests a way for us to issue money without debt, as was done in Rome and by Lincoln to fund the Civil War. If this system of finance can work, then for the first time I can see light at the end of the tunnel. However I need someone who would know to tell me if this really could work.

    Andrew Macpherson

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  29. #29
    By the way, incase you get the urge, here is the full length - it is the first thing I've seen in that gives a possible answer to the key question - what comes next if this system does fail?

    Andrew Macpherson

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  30. #30
    Freedom Ouray's Avatar
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    I watched the first 30 minutes so far of the full feature and around the 25 minute mark he discussed the problem that the Colonist had using their own currency when the British flooded the market with bogus bills, ie. inflation set in. I think that he misses the whole issue that the western world has and debt is the enabler of the issue. Governments and consumers have fully grasped the view that they should have everything that they ever desired today when credit is so easy and that they do not need to sacrifice, save, and wait until they can afford the items that historically people worked towards during a life time.

    The fallacy that government can and should print whatever volume of money it needs ignores the supply and demand function of pricing. When dollars are plentiful prices on goods and services rise since there is so much demand. Fiat currency like everything else is the world only has a value if someone else is willing to accept it in exchange for the goods or services that they are trading for that currency. Once that acceptance fades the currency is devalued or worthless. Supply and demand is a very accurate measure of value. Giving D.C. unlimited capacity to just print dollars would only lead to a devaluation even faster then the one currently under way. Bottom line, we have to knock off the spending and kick the addiction that we have as a nation to leverage. Leverage/debt is not a bad thing when used in moderation. But buying a home that you cannot afford just because someone is dumb enough to lend you the money is no different then taking all of that loan and going to the casino. You know the odds are against you, but you just have to believe that you are going to be the lucky one that consistently leaves the casino a winner. It just is not going to happen. It is time for people to start behaving like adults and not spoiled children who want everything today regardless of the cost.

    I will watch the rest of the video, but first the holiday lights need to go up outside!

  31. #31
    Thanks for the feedback, and have fun getting those lights up!!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  32. #32
    Found this today, it is nice and clean and clear...

    The Crisis of Credit Visualized from Jonathan Jarvis on Vimeo.

    Andrew Macpherson

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  33. #33
    Freedom Ouray's Avatar
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    Overly simplified, but basically an accurate summary of the last decade.

  34. #34
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    I have been studying alot of things lately including the writings of the Founding Fathers and here is an appropriate quote from Thomas Jefferson that he made in a speech in 1802:

    Thomas Jefferson, 1802:
    I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties
    than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to
    control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation,
    the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive
    the people of all property - until their children wake-up homeless on the
    continent their fathers conquered..
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  35. #35
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    History does repeat itself and it is amazing how current world leaders do not take lessons from the past, including the successes and failures of other great civilizations -- This is a quote from Cicero in 25 BC, given to the Roman Senate at the height of the Roman Empire. The words speak volumes about the state of the Roman Empire at the time and can easily be applied to the US -- who would be analogous to Rome in current times:

    ?The budget should be balanced, the treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt, the mobs should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence.? -- CICERO, 25 BC
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  36. #36
    Both very pertinent quotes, and if you're in the mood for reading I can recommend this book, which is full of some of the most interesting and well put together research on the cycles in history, and the hows and whys of them being forgotten.

    http://www.amazon.com/Generational-D.../dp/1594530483

    Get past the odd title with and senstationalist tagline and in it is some of the most intereting research I've come across in years. If I was the publisher I'd have made him call it The Book of Forgetting.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  37. #37
    There is a great interview just posted with the director of Inside Job on Charlie Rose's site

    http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11321
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  38. #38
    Z8 Madness
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    Thanks Andrew for the material you post. Very interesting. Keep them coming.
    62050 - Z8

  39. #39
    I'm happy to get to share my other passion with such a well educated, intellegent and concerned group.

    Today on King World News, a web-stream that often features excellent interviews, they had Nigel Farrage who we featured speaking his mind to the European Parliment earlier in the thread.

    This interview is both inspiring and sobering, I can only hope and pray we find such a voice here.

    http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingwor...el_Farage.html
    Andrew Macpherson

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  40. #40
    Incase you wondered who really controls the country this story out today should leave you in no doubt.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  41. #41
    Z8Mania
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    One of my favorite quotes is from Thomas Jefferson: "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have".

  42. #42
    That's the second sad but true of the morning!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  43. #43
    Something to make us laugh at the rearranging of the deck chairs...

    The Daily Show With Jon StewartMon - Thurs 11p / 10c
    The Big Bank Theory
    www.thedailyshow.com
    Daily Show Full EpisodesPolitical HumorThe Daily Show on Facebook
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  44. #44
    Z8Mania
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    What Jon Stewart does so well is go back and grab the clips showing how hypocritical all these people are.