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Thread: 10 year maintenance - fluids?

  1. #1
    Carter Carter Rise's Avatar
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    10 year maintenance - fluids?

    My car will be 10 next month (I am the original owner) and I am going to have it gone through thoroughly while the Alpina suspension is installed. My service advisor asked me what fluid I wanted in the transmission and differential. I have no idea, but suspect that some more knowledgeable than me have some insight or suggestions on this. Any thoughts on this? Anything else maintenance related we should look at?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    I have used Redline in the past, but these days I just use the BMW oils that they recommend, and the TWS in the motor. Since many of us are approaching our 10th I'll ask J?rgen at the Club if he would consider creating a 10 year check list.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  3. #3
    Z8Mania
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    Good idea. I would have them change the diff fluid, transmission fluid, motor oil, brake fluid. And if the battery is more than 5 years old I would swap it out.

  4. #4
    Carter Carter Rise's Avatar
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    Thanks. Sounds like the OE fluids are the way to go. My service manager asked me about something called Royal Purple. Sounds like overkill since I am not tracking the car.

    A 10 year checklist would be great.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Carter Rise View Post
    Thanks. Sounds like the OE fluids are the way to go. My service manager asked me about something called Royal Purple. Sounds like overkill since I am not tracking the car.

    A 10 year checklist would be great.
    I don't think that there is such a thing as overkill considering the car we are talking about. I do all my own maintenance because I don't trust anyone else to do it. I've researched this throughly, including correspoding with Mike Miller of BWM Club "Tech Talk" fame. Here is my list:

    1. Motor oil - BWM/Castrol TWS 10W-60 (I do this every 2,500 mi or every 2 years)
    2. Transmission - Redline MTL (every two years regardless of mileage and this IS overkill)
    3. Differential - Redline 75W-90ns (every two years regardless of mileage and this IS overkill)
    4. Coolant - Only the BMW blue. This is critical because others (particularly the yellow prestone) will attack the aluminum in the S62. This should be done every two years regardless of milleage.
    5. Brake fluid - ATE blue. Then next time use ATE yellow so you can tell when the fluid has been completely purged. Then back to the blue next time and so on. This should be done every two years regardless of milleage.
    6. Power steering - Redline D4ATF. Most people forget this one!

    Since it's been 10 years, consider replacing all the cooling system hoses since you are going to drain the system. Also, don't forget the cabin microfilters (search elsewhere in here for my write-up on the easy replacement).

    I think that's it???
    C.A. Cardenas (AKA Dan)
    2003 (last one?) Z8 - Hellrot / Sport Rot
    Original Owner - Munich Tourist Delivery
    -- Others --
    1988 M6 - 32K mi. - Original Owner
    1989 DINAN 750iL - 73K mi. - Original Owner
    1998 M3 - 63K mi. - Original Owner
    2015 X5 (F15) Diesel - Daily Driver

  6. #6
    Thats a great start, and I also spoke to J?rgen about this, and we will get a full Z8 Club 10 year check list from him too.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  7. #7
    Carter Carter Rise's Avatar
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    Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts. I already did the microfilters, using your write-up, it was most helpful.

  8. #8
    Z8Mania
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    Also check those trunk bolts:
    http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/showthread.php?t=2217

  9. #9
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Funny, I have ordered in all the cooling hoses a few weeks ago. Just need to get to Dana at Peter Pan for install.

  10. #10
    Thats a great idea, maybe I'll do the same if it isn't too much of a crazy expense.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    Thats a great idea, maybe I'll do the same if it isn't too much of a crazy expense.
    Consider the alternative. You're on that great drive, on that great road and one of the hoses pops. The hoses are less than $100 if you use your BMW CCA membership card to get the 20% discount many dealers offer.

    If Dana wants a first born for labor (unlikely), I'll help you do it in your garage.
    C.A. Cardenas (AKA Dan)
    2003 (last one?) Z8 - Hellrot / Sport Rot
    Original Owner - Munich Tourist Delivery
    -- Others --
    1988 M6 - 32K mi. - Original Owner
    1989 DINAN 750iL - 73K mi. - Original Owner
    1998 M3 - 63K mi. - Original Owner
    2015 X5 (F15) Diesel - Daily Driver

  12. #12
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    At 10 years, I would also consider replacing the belts and while doing the hoses, consider the coolant temperature sensor as well. ///MBlitz stated it will, which if you can not remember the list, just ask your service advisor to do the OBD II inspection and replacement, which is usually done at 60,000 miles or every 3 - 5 years with minimal driving. The true 60k inspections / service on the S62 motor also recommends spark plug replacement but if your milage is significantly less, probably not necessary.
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  13. #13
    The ten year list grows....


    1. Motor oil - BWM/Castrol TWS 10W-60 (I do this every 2,500 mi or every 2 years)
    2. Transmission - Redline MTL (every two years regardless of mileage and this IS overkill)
    3. Differential - Redline 75W-90ns (every two years regardless of mileage and this IS overkill)
    4. Coolant - Only the BMW blue. This is critical because others (particularly the yellow prestone) will attack the aluminum in the S62. This should be done every two years regardless of milleage.
    5. Brake fluid - ATE blue. Then next time use ATE yellow so you can tell when the fluid has been completely purged. Then back to the blue next time and so on. This should be done every two years regardless of milleage.
    6. Power steering - Redline D4ATF. Most people forget this one!
    7. Check trunk bolts
    8. Replace belts
    9. Replace cooling hoses
    10. Replace coolant temperature sensor
    10. Check - (replace) MAF's
    11. OBD II inspection and replacement
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  14. #14
    Sport Button On - DSC Off jpklecker's Avatar
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    This is great information. I would however strongly recommend checking and maybe replacing the belts at between 6 and 7 years. My main belt started to deteriorate at 7 and a half years (39,500 miles). Driving home one day I heard a thump and then a slight tapping noise. Immediately stopping to check... I noticed a section of the belt had borken off, only a half width of it, for a length of about 10 inches. Granted I live in the Phoenix area (very hot summers and very dry most of the year) but this could happen elsewhere. Total replacement cost was $170 for both belts including labor, a small cost considering what could have resulted from this.
    John Klecker - 2002 Topaz / Crema (61782)

  15. #15
    Completely agree and I neglected to include it in the original list. In fact, I replaced mine at 5 years (only 5K miles) and they had some small hairline cracks. Age does them in as much or more than actual mileage. I put the old ones in the trunk just in case of a failure on a road trip.
    C.A. Cardenas (AKA Dan)
    2003 (last one?) Z8 - Hellrot / Sport Rot
    Original Owner - Munich Tourist Delivery
    -- Others --
    1988 M6 - 32K mi. - Original Owner
    1989 DINAN 750iL - 73K mi. - Original Owner
    1998 M3 - 63K mi. - Original Owner
    2015 X5 (F15) Diesel - Daily Driver

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8Mania View Post
    Good idea. I would have them change the diff fluid, transmission fluid, motor oil, brake fluid. And if the battery is more than 5 years old I would swap it out.
    I hestitate to mention but I am still tendering my 2001 OEM battery. She's doing just fine. Wonder if many others are finding such longevity.

  17. #17
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdillane View Post
    I hestitate to mention but I am still tendering my 2001 OEM battery. She's doing just fine. Wonder if many others are finding such longevity.
    Can you say "living on borrowed time"? "Skating on thin ice"?.....

    Do you drive it often? How many miles?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jdillane View Post
    I hestitate to mention but I am still tendering my 2001 OEM battery. She's doing just fine. Wonder if many others are finding such longevity.
    Almost. I'm tendering the original battery on my 2003 (Jan. 2003 build). None of my other BMWs have ever gone more than four years on an OEM battery.

    Norcal is absolutely right though, you and I are on borrowed time and the battery will give up at the most inopportune time. It has become an experiment with me. Now I have to see how long it will go. Stay tuned.
    C.A. Cardenas (AKA Dan)
    2003 (last one?) Z8 - Hellrot / Sport Rot
    Original Owner - Munich Tourist Delivery
    -- Others --
    1988 M6 - 32K mi. - Original Owner
    1989 DINAN 750iL - 73K mi. - Original Owner
    1998 M3 - 63K mi. - Original Owner
    2015 X5 (F15) Diesel - Daily Driver

  19. #19
    Team Z8 RRZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdillane View Post
    I hestitate to mention but I am still tendering my 2001 OEM battery. She's doing just fine. Wonder if many others are finding such longevity.

    Same here. Still original (2001) battery. (Kept on an intelligent tender)

  20. #20
    Sport Button On jwgerritsen's Avatar
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    I bought my Topaz Z8 recently and brought it to BMWSF to replace the battery as it was not working anymore, thats all fixed now.

    They also did a check on the car and recommended to replace every two years the brake and coolant fluid. I will ask them to replace the brake fluid (186 USD) and the coolant (137 USD) as I dont know when the last replacment was.

    Further they found a power steering fluid leak and they suggest to replace power steering hose (360 USD), however not directly necessary at the same time they said..... The strange thing is that I searched on the forum if anyone else has had power steering fluid leak, 0 results. So nobody with the same issues on the power steering fluid leak?

  21. #21
    Z8Mania
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    Congratulations on your new Z8! I have not had that issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwgerritsen View Post
    So nobody with the same issues on the power steering fluid leak?
    Well, I have replaced many PS hoses on BMW's I have owned. Very common issue. I have not had to replace the ones on my Z8, but I am positive it is just a matter of time before it becomes necessary.

  23. #23
    Congratulations on your Z8!

    If BMWSF is BMW of San Francisco, I would encourage you to drive 10 miles further south on 101 to Peter Pan (PP) BMW in Millbrae. Dana Caldwell and his team of Matt and Trevor at PP BMW specialize in Z8s. I don't have any first hand experience with BMWSF, I've just found PP BMW to be exceptional with my Z8's service.

    PP BMW recently replaced a leaky high pressure power steering hose on my 2002 Z8 at 37K miles.
    My Best,

    Ed

    2002 Z8 Jet Black//Sport Red
    2012 SLS AMG Obsidian Black/Classic Red

  24. #24
    Team Z8 RRZ8's Avatar
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    Not common I believe

  25. #25
    Sport Button On jwgerritsen's Avatar
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    thanks all, i think i will visit Peter Pan then soon for a final check. Then i know for sure everything is OK and i can drive my car with confidence

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norcal View Post
    Can you say "living on borrowed time"? "Skating on thin ice"?.....

    Do you drive it often? How many miles?
    Am in MI so she is summer's only. 20,250 miles to date. She fires up every time...picked her up out of storage last month and she purred instantly. Now as for the original tires...they gotta go!

  27. #27
    Z8 Madness
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    I would also replace the fuel filter.

    If you don't drive the car at all for extended periods of time (say 4months+), you have to worry about the fuel. Adding stabilizer is one option. Keeping very little fuel in the car and driving the car once a month for 30 minutes, then adding 1-2 Gallon of fresh fuel is better.
    62050 - Z8

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    immediately before storage, I change the oil and fill the tank, including stabilizer. Fuel filter probably needs a change out. Thanks for the tip!

  29. #29
    Z8 Madness
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    It is my understanding that the fuel tank in our cars is made of plastic. If so, there is no need to fill the tank prior to storage. I avoid stabilizers, as I'm just uncomfortable with that stuff going through the engine.
    62050 - Z8

  30. #30
    Z8 Addict Scott Pettit's Avatar
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    Andrew,

    Is the Club really recommending that the motor oil be change every 2500 miles?
    Scott Pettit
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    To soon to change plugs?

    So I have about 6655 on the speedo, the car is 10 years old, and I have just changed all fluids but the plugs are original. Now I know they can go much farther according to service intervals but I can tell you when I bought my Maserati,old and LOW miles too, the mechanic said I should change them anyway and it was a huge difference, so much so I was shocked!

    So is it wasteful ($$$) to change the plugs based on age and not mileage and starts? thnx, dogdoc

  32. #32
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Seems like really low miles to change them. Not sure if age matters or only mi. I'm about to change mine, but i have almost 40k, and I'm experiencing some odd things I hope to resolve.

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    thnx for the reply.

    I have no idea re mileage vs. age either, Max

  34. #34
    Spark plugs are not affected by age, only mileage. I pulled one of the plugs on my 2003 with just over 8K miles and the plugs are as new; no need to change. Concentrate on the other stuff that is affected by age (hoses, belts, tires, most fluids, etc.)
    C.A. Cardenas (AKA Dan)
    2003 (last one?) Z8 - Hellrot / Sport Rot
    Original Owner - Munich Tourist Delivery
    -- Others --
    1988 M6 - 32K mi. - Original Owner
    1989 DINAN 750iL - 73K mi. - Original Owner
    1998 M3 - 63K mi. - Original Owner
    2015 X5 (F15) Diesel - Daily Driver

  35. #35
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    Diff and tranny fluids, BMW won't change?

    I had posted that when I bought the car just about 2 weeks go I had a PPI done, then had all fluids done except tranny and diff. My SA said that he and the Z8 tech felt that while the car is 10 years old the fluids looked clean and they did not want to change them; I went back today for something else and we had the same conversation. Any thoughts on this; I am going to go to another Bimmer dealer close by or to my independent guy that works on Porsche and BMW only and ask him to change them with the redline products. same scenario for the belts; they see no reason to replace them but I say I am trying to avoid an unforseen breakdown. It is odd that they don't want to take my money isn't it? Dogdoc

  36. #36
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    I don't get that at all. Certainly they may think it doesn't need to be done, but it can't hurt, so if that's what you want why not just do it and charge you?

  37. #37
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I'd go with caution on deviating from the specified lubricants. I know people that swear by Red Line for the track focused cars and race vehicles, but Red Line is not approved for use by BMW, nor are Red Line products certified by industry standards like API. Should you have a problem, you'll receive little help from BMW. In addition, Getrag (the maker of the Z8 transmission) has specifically advised against using Red Line gear oil in some of their transmissions due to it causing shrinking seals, etc.

    For road use in most climates, there's never any real reason or benefit to deviate from manufacturer specs on lubricants. It's really just a bunch of marketing. If you're a track rat that is constantly servicing your car, or you have extreme climate or heavy duty needs, sure, some aftermarket fluids or different weights are great.

    Gear oil is pretty stable. If you just want to change it, go for it, but for a ten year old car with so few miles, I wouldn't suggest it as necessary.

    If they're refusing to change the belts, I'd just find another BMW dealer to work with, even if you have to travel. Independents are often more capable than BMW service centers, but on resale you might have someone balk at non-brand maintenance. Just a thought.
    thegunguy

  38. #38
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    I just had all fluids changed on my Alpina and it just turned 8. The transmission service in not inexpensive as they also replace filters inside the transmission and gaskets. The dirrerential was done as well. I think the transmission service ran about $700 or so and the differential about $250. I feel better knowing everything is fresh.
    P.S. All fluids and lubricants were BMW recommended products.
    Marty

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    The 6 speed tranny on the non Alpina will not have filters or gaskets changed, so hopefully the cost will be a bit less. The BMW differential fluid is about $50 per pint and the differential requires about 3 pints...hence the substantial cost using the BMW recommended fluids.

  40. #40
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    I agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Norcal View Post
    I don't get that at all. Certainly they may think it doesn't need to be done, but it can't hurt, so if that's what you want why not just do it and charge you?
    Not sure why the SA would not change it per your request and be done with it as it certainly can not hurt.

    Petroleum based lubricants do degrade over time but slowly so more than likely you are fine with the low milage and year of your vehicle but I change my oil regardless every 5k miles or every 6 months. My rear gear oil I changed when I installed the Quaife and then again at 50k miles along with changing my transmission oil (using BMW lubricants) at the same time. Did not really need it but makes me sleep better.
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  41. #41
    Team Z8 Charles's Avatar
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    From this and other threads one deviation most people recommend is using Castrol 10W60 motor oil rather than the 5W oil specified for Z8's.

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    Gun, that is what he said today!

    The SA said the gear fluid is mostly broken down by mileage and heat, not age and so they frown on changing it; the other he said was good till a tranny service interval....I am not that smart on the mechanics, I just do not want any surprises, Max

  43. #43
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Yeah, gear oil is pretty stable, but they should do what you want. A good tech should explain that it's probably not needed, but then follow up with "but I'm glad to do it for you if you want".

    As an quick tidbit of info: I seem to recall that the standard 1,500 break-in period on new BMWs is to break in the diff, not the engine. I need to confirm this with Dana and Matt, though.
    thegunguy

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    thnx!

    It would seem that its just basic customer care, I appreciate the honesty but let me decide since its my car and my money, and then imagine some bean counter would be mad that they let this small source of revenue walk. Do that 3-5 times a week and well....you do the math,lol. Max

  45. #45
    I just looked at my records to confirm and BMW did diff service on all Z8s as part of the regular maintenance at 1,200 mi.

    I can't think of a single good reason to let the trans. fluid and diff. oil sit in there for 10 years, regardless of the mileage. The cost of the oils $200, the cost of a new... nearly priceless.
    C.A. Cardenas (AKA Dan)
    2003 (last one?) Z8 - Hellrot / Sport Rot
    Original Owner - Munich Tourist Delivery
    -- Others --
    1988 M6 - 32K mi. - Original Owner
    1989 DINAN 750iL - 73K mi. - Original Owner
    1998 M3 - 63K mi. - Original Owner
    2015 X5 (F15) Diesel - Daily Driver

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    Blitz, thnx for the input!

    AS noted a few posts above, its not the money, I would happily spend it...I think gun guy commented I just may need to go to another dealership, Max

  47. #47
    Z8 Madness
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    My schedule:

    engine-oil/oil-filter - every year (apx. $250)
    all other fluids - every 2 years (apx. $1200)
    air/fuel filters - every 3 years (apx. $500)
    battery - every 4 years (apx. $150)
    tires - every 4 years (apx. $1800)
    belts - every 10 years (apx. ??)
    breaks - as needed

    This is about $1500 - $2000 / year of maintenance cost. Not bad for such a special car!

    Disclaimer, the numbers are off the top of my head and done by an authorized BMW dealer. You can probably do the same work for 1/2 the money at a good independent shop.
    62050 - Z8

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    appreciate the breakdown!

    Thats about what the Maserati was on an annual basis at the dealer; less at my indy guy, Max

  49. #49
    Z8Mania
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    On average, excluding wheels and tires, the Z8 costs me ~500 a year. The Ferrari.... ~2500...