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Thread: This is very sobering, but also something everyone should watch...

  1. #1

    This is very sobering, but also something everyone should watch...

    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  2. #2
    PTphilly
    Guest
    It's your site and your politics, but as long as you post this crazy stuff in public, here's another side of this.
    Which US city do _you_ think will be the first concentration camp ?

    Oath Keepers: Very Bad Craziness
    US NEWS | Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 1:33:27 pm PDT

    The Las Vegas Review Journal?s Alan Maimon reports on the rise of a very disturbing movement fueled by conspiracy theories and anti-government bad craziness: READY TO REVOLT: Oath Keepers pledges to prevent dictatorship in United States.

    Launched in March by Las Vegan Stewart Rhodes, Oath Keepers bills itself as a nonpartisan group of current and retired law enforcement and military personnel who vow to fulfill their oaths to the Constitution.

    More specifically, the group?s members, which number in the thousands, pledge to disobey orders they deem unlawful, including directives to disarm the American people and to blockade American cities. By refusing the latter order, the Oath Keepers hope to prevent cities from becoming ?giant concentration camps,? a scenario the 44-year-old Rhodes says he can envision happening in the coming years.

    It?s a Cold War-era nightmare vision with a major twist: The occupying forces in this imagined future are American, not Soviet.

    ?The whole point of Oath Keepers is to stop a dictatorship from ever happening here,? Rhodes, a former Army paratrooper and Yale-trained lawyer, said in an interview with the Review-Journal. ?My focus is on the guys with the guns, because they can?t do it without them.

    ?We say if the American people decide it?s time for a revolution, we?ll fight with you.?

    That type of rhetoric has caught the attention of groups that track extremist activity in the United States.

    In a July report titled ?Return of the Militias,? the Alabama-based Southern Poverty Law Center singled out Oath Keepers as ?a particularly worrisome example of the Patriot revival.?

    The Patriot movement, so named because its adherents believe the federal government has stepped on the constitutional ideals of the American Revolution, gained traction in the 1990s and has been closely linked to anti-government militia and white supremacist movements.

    The movement is blamed for spawning Timothy McVeigh, who bombed a federal building in Oklahoma City in 1995, killing 168 people.

    ?I?m not accusing Stewart Rhodes or any member of his group of being Timothy McVeigh or a future Timothy McVeigh,? law center spokesman Mark Potok said. ?But these kinds of conspiracy theories are what drive a small number of people to criminal violence. ... What?s troubling about Oath Keepers is the idea that men and women armed and ordered to protect the public in this country are clearly being drawn into a world of false conspiracy theory.?

  3. #3
    I don't post it here because I subscribe to its conclusion, but because I recognize its power to influence an already disenchanted and disenfrachised population. The reason to post it here is to start a discussion.

    The basis of the piece is a continuation of Alan Jones belief that our country is being taken over by those who don't have our best interest at heart. I have been aware of him for quite some time, and always regarded him as an 'alarmist'.

    However, upon watching this presentation, I do not think it can all be dismissed as craziness. There is quite a lot, especially about the Fed, the financial crisis, the bail outs, the laws that have been passed, and were almost passed, that gel things I have read, researched and followed independently, so some his evidence is correct. I certainly hadn't put it all together to paint the fearful picture he paints, but when presented with it as a whole, I find it creates a chilling picture of what could come to pass.

    Right or wrong, like it or not, this is a message that is spreading, and just as the National Socialist movement swept Germany in the late 1920's after the collapse of their economy, this film, and its view point, could well become a rallying cry for something much more forceful than a few disenchanted nutjobs.

    Since most of our owners here are very reasoned men, and women, with deep insights into what is happening in their respective fields, I feel to ignore this presentation would simply be irresponsible, especially if it gives rise to militias of disenchanted citizens as you describe.

    I am a great believer in knowing what is going on around us, so as not to be blindsided by anything. It is in that spirit that I present it here.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  4. #4
    and by the way, did you take the time to actually visit and read the Oath Keepers website, and see what they say about themselves?

    It is quite interesting, and not at all reflective of the alarmist media clipping you just shared as evidence. Check it out, http://oathkeepers.org/oath/
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  5. #5
    PTphilly
    Guest
    Why don't you just post links to the Klan ?

  6. #6
    Team Z8
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    Well said Andrew. I am not nearly informed as yourself regarding the interrelationships between government policy and financial interests but as a doctor I am appauled that there is major health reform being considered that does not adress tort reform when multiple studies suggest add 20-30% to the cost of health care in this country. While they're at it, they should also consider tort reform as a major component of a national reform of our entire legal system. We all know that there's a similar cost associated with every product and service we purchase that adds absolutely nothing to productivity, efficiency, or probably even safety. Perhaps we should be DEMANDING national reform of our litigation system.

  7. #7
    PTphilly, since you are guest of this site, and not a Z8 owner, I have decided to withdraw your membership of the site.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  8. #8
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    Not sure who this guy is but...

    Quote Originally Posted by PTphilly View Post
    ?I?m not accusing Stewart Rhodes or any member of his group of being Timothy McVeigh or a future Timothy McVeigh,? law center spokesman Mark Potok said. ?But these kinds of conspiracy theories are what drive a small number of people to criminal violence. ... What?s troubling about Oath Keepers is the idea that men and women armed and ordered to protect the public in this country are clearly being drawn into a world of false conspiracy theory.?

    while I certainly do not condone what Timothy McVeigh or his extremist counterparts did (I live in Oklahoma), the attitude of the guy who posted this has it wrong -- as he implies from the rest of the diatribe that there is something wrong with people of this country speaking out (doesn't like the first amendment of the constitution, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of petition,etc.) and letting the government know we will not stand for the government taking over anything. Many authors clearly believe that is the the second amendment "Right to Keep and bear arms" granted in the constitution that has kept our country as free as it is. I am sure he also feels that guns commit crimes and if there were none, we would not have any gun related crimes.

    This person is clearly "anti-gun" and also, based on their last post about the "Klan" a racist to boot as when he did not have a good argument for your answer Andrew, he pulled the Race card and as such, IMHO, makes that person a racist -- something that no one on this board is or would even remotely condone!

    PS: From his user name, probably drives one of the now discontinued PT Cruisers. Disappointed that someone who has ties to "Philly" the city of brotherly love and founding city of our Constitution would not be more informed.
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  9. #9
    I guess he was either someone who wanted to sell something, or was interested in a Z8, but since these were his first posts since joining, and he still didn't buy a car I decided we could do without him. I have never thrown anyone out before, but in this instance I feel it was completely justified.

    If just half of what is suggested in the documentary is for real, we will have some very serious issues to confront, and I'd rather do it with a balanced, and well thought discussion than hysterical name calling.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  10. #10
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Lupin's Avatar
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    membership

    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    PTphilly, since you are guest of this site, and not a Z8 owner, I have decided to withdraw your membership of the site.
    WELL DONE
    Luigi
    2001 Z8 Black-Red

  11. #11
    Z8Mania
    Guest
    I dont have the time to watch all of this- is this a conspiracy theory, xfiles kind thing?

  12. #12
    No, it is a documentary by a chap called Alex Jones who has been following Government corruption for years. He is a different Michael Moore, because rather than making one off pieces he runs a website and a radio show that constantly showcase what is wrong in our Gov. I have been aware of him since hearing him on a radio interview here in LA in around 2005.

    I used to think of him as an interesting researcher who tends to connect the dots with a little too much hysteria, but in this new work he is on point with the dots about the Fed, finance and the way Washington is bought and sold by the corporate lobbyists. There is still a lot of stuff I can't corroborate, and he is still jumping to the same conclusion, but today it seems a great deal more credible than when I first heard him on the radio five years ago, hence I shared it here because I wanted to see what everyone else made of it.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  13. #13
    There are several great documantary film makers in this arena, and being a lover of politics and documentary I have seen many of them at screenings here in LA. Prehaps the most important is the now sadly deceased Aaron Russo, who produced many Hollywood films, including Trading Places.

    This is his master piece, and still makes for very compelling watching.

    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  14. #14
    To put all this in context, my granddad was a politician, and so I grew up with a great interest in what goes on in Govt, and that has grown substantially since becoming an American.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  15. #15
    Z8Mania
    Guest
    Andrew thanks- I care also because I care about my country and my friends and family.