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Thread: Stated Value Insurance - how much do you carry

  1. #1
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    Stated Value Insurance - how much do you carry

    I have Grundy for the Z8 and pay $1138/year.

    What is the stated value that you have on your vehicle? I never changed mine from $162.5K since I had the car. I figured that the replacement cost would be:
    - used car
    - travel to examine the car
    - inspection cost
    - shipping across the country
    - purchase/install the eisenmann mufflers that are in my current car
    - install Dinan performance software
    - replace tires with the Bridgestones I like

    I considered all of these costs as part of a replacement for the vehicle. The real question is, would I get into a hassle with the insurance company regarding all the real costs to replace the car. What is defined as true replacement?

    Jay in Southeast Florida
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    That was $1138 per 6 months

    Grundy is $2310 per year not $1138

    Jay in Southeast Florida
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  3. #3
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Does the policy impose restrictions on annual mileage and the type of use, i.e. shows, organized meets, etc.?

  4. #4
    I've had no end of trouble with trying to get what is essentially a classic/rare car coverage for our modern classic, so am watching this space with interest. At the moment I'm with State Farm who will only guarantee to replace it with a like vehicle of similar value, which given our overview of the market I think we can pretty much argue our case, but it isn't an agreed on value on paper which is what I'd really like.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  5. #5
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    I am with Zurich, but it may be a little different since I have a dealers license. I have a " garage policy" with a total of $250,000 inventory coverage, but I had them come and look at the Z8 and got them to agree to and state on my policy that the Z8 is worth $140,000. If it were to become a total loss, they will cut me a check for $139,000 since I have a $1,000 deductable.
    Marty

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  6. #6
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    I have Chubb. I think the annual premium is about 1100. for the year with an agreed value of 115,000.

  7. #7
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Like Andrew, I'm with State Farm for now. Not Agreed Value. Assuming they would find a Z8 with similar miles, I may end up ahead. While my car has not had nearly the little bugs, it has been enthusiastically enjoyed! Many people out there just putter around and wax it.

  8. #8
    Sport Button On - DSC Off jpklecker's Avatar
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    My Z8 is insured throught AAA as with my 535i and my wife's Nissan Pathfinder. The 1969 Volvo is through American Collector's Insurance (originally contacted through AAA) and it is base on an agreed stated value, they have pictures of the car, and it is limited to 2,500 miles per year. I also have the option of insurring it for 5,000 miles per year. I haven't looked at including the Z8 with them as I drive it at least two to three days per week.
    John Klecker - 2002 Topaz / Crema (61782)

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    I worked to get Chubb to go up to $135k. It took a letter from my local dealer verifying the prices that the cars are going for.

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    I am still with State Farm too. But, have been hearing good things about Hagerty Ins. located in Traverse City MI. They are fairly new, having started in a basement about 20 yrs ago selling boat insurance. They are collector focused and growing.
    I just went to their website, plugged in $100K as value (with $2.5K deductible) and got an annual prm of $1,715. I did not tweak the coverage, e.g. liability limits. They have quite a bit of ala carte stuff too, like private client services. Probably worth checking out.

  11. #11
    Sport Button On - DSC Off jpklecker's Avatar
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    Just got my renewal notice from AAA for the insurance, the particulars are $1,300 annual premiums ($650 every six months). This includes $500 comprehensive and $1,000 collision deductibles, so the rate would be lower with a higher deductible. As stated earlier this is not stated value insurance.
    John Klecker - 2002 Topaz / Crema (61782)

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    I reneweb my policy with Grundy. But I had it insured for a stated value of $162.5K since I bought the car new and never examined the value in all these years I was paying premiums. I just lowered it to $145K stated value which kept the premium at the same $2310 per year (it was going to go up with the $162.5K value). In looking at everything that would be involved in finding and replacing the car with a similar one with the extra features added on, I figured it would come to about this sum right now.

    Jay in Southeast Florida
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  13. #13
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    I have my car insured through Hagerty (as part of a multi-car policy).
    Agreed Value: $138,000
    Annual premium: $1,600
    Deductible: $1,000
    (No useage limitation as long as it is not used as a "daily driver")

    GEICO used to charge me about the same before I changed over to Hagerty, but GEICO wouldn't do Agreed Value and the Blue Book value was about $90,000.
    Dirk

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    www.bmwccca.com

  14. #14
    Z8 Madness
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    I've been following this insurance thread with great interest. I assume that, regardless of the type of insurance (stated value or not), the issue matters if the car is declared a total loss by the insurance company. Otherwise, the car would be off to the repair shop.

    So, if the stated value is set too high, there's greater incentive for the insurance company to arrange for repairs. Am I missing something here?

    I'm not sure, for a car that's registered and used, if a stated insurance is the best way to go. Looking at what others are paying, I pay less for a standard insurance policy with only a $500 deductible (about $900 per year). If the car gets totaled, hopefully one can negotiate a reasonable market value with the insurance company. However, it would be something to consider for a unique *special* car, say hayvenhursts one of 12.

    Ultimately, the best insurance policy is to drive less, stay away from idiots, and keep it under 130 at all times
    62050 - Z8

  15. #15
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redz8 View Post
    the best insurance policy is to drive less, stay away from idiots, and keep it under 130 at all times

    Yah right! Good luck with that. (on all points)

  16. #16
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    It doesn't take a lot to end up with a $100,000+ repair invoice or for that matter to have your Z8 declared a total loss if it is under-insured.

    (Bottom picture was copied from a BMW Z8 Club eV pamphlet and was taken at BMW's European aluminum repair center)

       
    Dirk

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  17. #17
    Z8 Madness
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    Thanks for the pics

    Quote Originally Posted by DirkZ8 View Post
    It doesn't take a lot to end up with a $100,000+ repair invoice or for that matter to have your Z8 declared a total loss if it is under-insured.
    Ouch!

    62050 - Z8

  18. #18
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    uuugggh, thats a wake up pic for sure!

    I have a collector policy that limits mileage to 5k per year, although I can omit trips if I inform them. This is plenty of miles for me as i have too many cars to come close to the 5k per vehicle. I pay only $2500 per year for all but my daily, which is insured with my real estate. Its a great deal if you dont mind the mileage issues. Stated and agreed value of $125k.

  19. #19
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Agreed value and diminished value coverage

    I just signed on with Barrett-Jackson Endorsed Insurance www.barrett-jackson.com/insurance. This policy addresses my concerns with diminished value coverage plus an agreed value (which can go up 50% during the term of the policy if the market changes). It also covers vehicles being transported in addition to any carrier insurance to make sure we would receive the full agreed value in the case of a loss. Exceptional service (so far) and reasonable premiums. While there is an annual mileage limitation, the comfort of this coverage will make driving those miles more enjoyable.

  20. #20
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    How much? And how many miles?

  21. #21
    Z8 Addict Scott Pettit's Avatar
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    Ken,

    Who is the underwriter for BJ's policies? And what is the advantage of the diminished value VS agreed value?
    Scott Pettit
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  22. #22
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    The underwriter is Chartis, an A rated company. This policy addresses both diminished value (diminution of value, dv) and agreed value. In the case of a total loss, I will receive at least the agreed value. If I can show that the car appreciated from the time the policy became effective, they will pay up to 150% of the agreed value. In the case of a partial loss, they will pay to fix the car plus any loss in the market value directly caused by the car having been repaired as compared to the car in original condition before the accident (dv). My biggest fear driving the car on public roads is that some fool will cause me to replace or repaint some body panels resulting in a 20-30% drop in market value from its pristine original condition. This policy seems to be the answer.

  23. #23
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norcal View Post
    How much? And how many miles?
    2500 honor system miles, less than $600/year

  24. #24
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Thanks. That's almost enough miles for me, and seems like a very fair price.

  25. #25
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    Ken, If some one, as you say, were to hit you while driving public roads, would your diminished value segment pay you the 20-30% loss plus repairs?

    This sounds good but I can not quite imagine it going smoothly, knowing insurance companies. Can you explain the parameters of the agreement regarding this particular coverage?

  26. #26
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    I cannot predict how smoothly the settlement would proceed, but every other policy that I have looked at specifically denies dv coverage. Here is the wording from the policy:
    A. Scheduled Items
    1. Total Loss, Collector Auto - For a covered loss to a collector auto listed
    in your schedule of items, we shall pay the total amount of coverage for that
    collector auto if it is lost or damaged beyond repair. However, if the market
    value of the collector auto immediately before the loss exceeds the amount of
    scheduled coverage for that collector auto, we will pay its market value up to
    150% of the amount scheduled. For policies with two or more scheduled collector
    autos, the most we will pay in any one loss is the total policy limit for that
    class.
    2. Partial Loss and Diminution in Value, Collector Auto - If only part of the
    collector auto is lost or damaged, we shall pay the lesser of:
    a. The full amount to restore the collector auto to its condition immediately
    before the loss; or
    b. The amount of scheduled coverage for that collector auto.
    However, if the market value of the collector auto immediately before the loss
    exceeds the amount of the market value after restoration, we will pay the
    difference between its market value before and after restoration, up to 150% of
    the amount scheduled. For policies with two or more scheduled collector autos,
    the most we will pay in any one loss is the total policy limit for that class.


    I am not related in any way to this company, and am not in the insurance field. Their staff has provided exceptional service to me to date, and I'm sure they could answer more detailed questions better than I.

  27. #27
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    Thanks Ken, I am discussing this issue as we speak with the underwriters of my collector policy. Appreciate the help, John

  28. #28
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Please let me know if you find any weaknesses with this coverage. While it's nice to have the worries of dv and loss covered, I now worry (not too much, but some) about the solvency of the underwriting company and their claims processing dependability.

  29. #29
    Z8Mania
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    Those are valid concerns.

  30. #30
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    My company has no problem with the stated value but they do not, at this time, have a plan for diminished value.

    I had a collector car that we suffered an accident in several years ago and the same thing came up, with the same results, no diminished value consideration. In this particular case, the insurance payout was not great but was probably adequate. However, I was contacted by a salvage yard half way across the country and between what the insurance paid and the salvage yard offered, I decided to go that route and sell as the combined totals were 20% over what market would bear. The car ended up being repaired and sold but for me that was the best way to deal with diminished value!!

  31. #31
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    There is a big difference between "stated value" and "agreed value" even though many insurance representatives use the terms interchangeably. "Stated value" means that you are insured UP TO a predetermined value, many times including liability coverage. This will reduce your premium because the insurance company is limiting their exposure with a "cap" but the customer sees the value that they want on the declaration page and believes that is what they would receive. However, they are free to pay what they consider to be market value in the case of a total loss which could be less than the "stated value". "Agreed value" guarantees payment of the value stated on the declaration page in the case of a total loss plus the liability limits remain at what you normally carry.

    I had taken out a "stated value" policy with Farmers a while back after my agent told me that it was the same as "agreed value" and found the wording in the policy to be troubling. I had their legal department clarify for me, and to my horror they responded that the total of all benefits would be limited to the cap set at 120,000 as the "stated value" of the policy, not of the vehicle, including medical, liability, and property damage. I converted the policy back to a standard auto policy for a $14.00 change in premium and kept looking until I found this policy.

  32. #32
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    Ken, you are right on this and I have used this term interchangeably as well!
    I do have agreed value but did not know that stated valued was the sum of all payouts per incident as you explained.

    No offense to anyone involved in the industry but insurance companies are all about being as slippery and deceptive as possible. Necessary evil in my book.

  33. #33
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    I have $145K of Agreed Value insurance on the car at this point. My feeling was that the cost must include finding a new car to purchase, flying out to inspect it and negotiating the final price, buying the car, transporting it back to my home, then upgrading it with all the after-market features I currently have in my existing car. So it is a lot more than the price of just buying a replacement vehicle. What kind of values have other stated for their stated value?

    Jay in Southeast Florida
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  34. #34
    Z8Mania
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    Im not sure the insurance company would allow you to use those dollars for the travel expense- I could be wrong- Im just saying you will need to check.

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    It is not the insurance companies choice if this is Agreed Value insurance. Agreed Value means that they pay that amount. What I do with the money is my choice. I wanted to make sure that the amount would be enough to take all steps necessary to try to replace the Z8. I have not found any other car that I would be interested in replacing it with. So I want to maintain enough insurance to acquire another one.

    Jay in Southeast Florida
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  36. #36
    Oddly enough I just posted a link to this site somewhere else, but this chap in Scottsdale has made a point of always having the best Z8's you can find, so he would be a good source both for pricing infomation, and heavens forbid anything should actually happen, finding a replacement for your car too. http://www.scottsdalesport.com
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  37. #37
    Z8Mania
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    Well I'm glad I carry AV also.

  38. #38
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    In other news, there is no "Z8 Series".
    thegunguy

  39. #39
    Z8 Madness
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegunguy View Post
    In other news, there is no "Z8 Series".


    I must have missed something during translation.
    62050 - Z8

  40. #40
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Sorry - just my personal frustration with auto sites and car dealers who list the Z8 as a "series" instead of specific model.
    thegunguy

  41. #41
    Z8 Madness
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    I see. Thanks for clarification.
    62050 - Z8

  42. #42
    Team Z8 Charles's Avatar
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    I was talking with a friend of mine in Houston who said that the agreed value policies do not have adequate liability insurance, so he stuck with his standard carrier (not agreed value) because he wanted to make sure he was adequately protected against third party liability claims in an accident. Have those of you with agreed value insurance looked at the liability provisions and compared them to non-agreed value policies?

    Insurance in Texas is regulated and he said that the companies that provide liability insurance were prohibited (understand that the companies have a lot of sway in the regulations) from providing agreed value insurance. What he could not answer is whether you could have liability only under one policy and agreed value under another, or more properly co-insurance where one policy would kick in where the other did not have coverage. Do any of you have this type of two policy arrangement?

  43. #43
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    You are absolutely correct. I'm a resident of Texas, and Chartis (Barrett-Jackson Insurance Program) writes two policies. The first is for the agreed value of the "private collection" which in this case is the collectible car(s). The second policy is an auto liability policy for the limits that you request. I then hold a separate umbrella (with the homeowners package) for a few million dollars of any risk insurance should a claim exceed the liability limits. All of this coverage has come in at a significant savings over the previous policies that I have held which did not offer agreed value. Chartis even covers full glass coverage, another luxury Texans cannot get through regular auto insurance.

  44. #44
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    Well it is renewal time on the agreed value policy. Once again my current policy beat out all the other quotes for $145K of Agreed Value insurance. I have Chubb - $2065. Hagerty quoted $3452 and American Collectors quoted $2416. I am still waiting for the quote from www.barrett-jackson.com. These are the only 4 firms that were mentioned on this thread.

    Jay in Southeast Florida
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    Barrett-Jackson quoted $3054. So the quotes were $3452, $3054 and $2416 versus $2065 for Chubb on $145K of agreed value insurance. If anyone finds anything better please post.

    Jay in Southeast Florida
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  46. #46
    Z8 Addict Scott Pettit's Avatar
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    My Grundy newsletter had an article explaining the difference between the various types of policies. Here is a copy of the article:


    AGREED VALUE policies set the limit that a policyholder will receive and an insurance company will pay in the event of total loss or theft of a vehicle. Obtaining an Agreed Value policy on your collector car is a fairly simple process. The applicant submits an application, indicating the value that they would like to have insured. Both the vehicle and value are then reviewed by Grundy underwriters, who are knowledgeable both in insurance and collector cars. (In most cases they are car guys who have restored cars of their own and they understand the costs involved.) When working with a new application, underwriters examine photos and any other supporting documentation the applicants submits; and, the vehicle's value is compared to the agency's guidelines on similar vehicles in similar condition.

    Ninety-five percent of applicants requested values are approved and bound on the date their applications are received. Occasionally, a Grundy underwriter will request additional information, such as restoration receipts or additional photos to substantiate a requested value. Underwriters will also tell applicants if their requested value is too low or too high. Insurance companies do not like to underinsure or over-insure, and the goal of all parties is to insure your car for its market value and the owners investment. Once this simple process is complete, the Agreed Value policy is issued.

    Although the collector car hobby has grown dramatically over the last decade, it is still too small for big insurance companies to invest the money it would cost them to train their personnel (agents, underwriters and adjusters) to understand collector cars and their values so they do not offer Agreed Value. Instead, they may offer Actual Cash Value or Stated Value policies.

    ACTUAL CASH VALUE does NOT establish the amount a policyholder will receive in advance. It is the most commonly used form by the majority of the big automobile insurance companies. This is because big companies primarily insure newer vehicles that are produced in the hundreds of thousands and the value at the time of loss is determined by make, model, options, age and condition. This involves starting with the Cost New and deducting a certain percentage for each year the vehicle is old, plus deductions for observed or expected "wear and tear." In rare cases additions or increases in value are granted to owners of vehicles who can "prove" that their car was maintained better than the expected average.

    STATED VALUE does NOT establish the amount a policyholder will receive in advance. The term Stated Value is very misleading because a Stated Value policy is nothing more than an Actual Cash Value policy with an upward limit on how much an insurance company will pay.

    As previously mentioned, there are certain instances where an Actual Cash Value policy will pay additions or increases to policyholders who can "prove" their investment. Stated Value was developed 50 years ago (when collectors started investing large sums in great vehicles) by insurance companies to protect them from paying "more than they bargained for." Stated Value is the worst option for any vehicle, because it will depreciate and deduct on the downside , but limit to the Stated Value the upside of your settlement.
    Scott Pettit
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  47. #47
    Z8 Master
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    Thanks for the article Scott. That helps clarify different kinds of policies.

  48. #48
    Team Z8 Charles's Avatar
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    Snubbed by Chubb

    On a call to the Chubb national phone number, they said they would not cover a Z8 unless you had other older collector cars, or an agent sought an accomodation because you were able to direct them other business.

  49. #49
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    I had such a bad experience with UNUM, the carrier that had all of my insurances, I switched everything to Chubb. They have a stated value for all my vehicles. I've been with them 3 years with no claim experience so far.

  50. #50
    Z8Mania
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    A number of companies are getting more and more difficult to deal with- a sign of the times. They are happy to take your money, but they know people who own these cars can be difficult and they have lawyers etc and the companies don't want the headaches/ hassles. They want people they can take money from but not necessarily have to pay out for.

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    Just got off the phone with American Collectors....

    they want your finger print and first born,lol not too bad; they will give me off the bat $99,900 without ANY documentation; I am asking for $120K since th rep felt that was doable with underwriting BUT I have to send some pictures;(I know at 6155 my miles are low and it might be like $130K or so but I am not going to push it; if I am NOT upside down I will be happy) around $1495/yr for the $99,900 and $1600/yr for the $120K...they are an affiliate with USAA and AMICA, I am with both and Geico, but she did say she was using the USAA referrral rather than the AMICA(my current ins. carrier for home and auto) as the underwriters like them better, military and all I guess...dogdoc

  52. #52
    Team Z8 Charles's Avatar
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    Consider Grundy. I found them less expensive, quicker and easier to work with. Others may have had a different experience. You will need two pix at least though.

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    I thought your grundy was over $3K?

    just an FYI folks; when talkinng to American Collectors they do not want the car ever out of your control....what happens if the wife and I want to go to dinner and leave it with the valet, will ask them about this today; thats just NOT realistic,dog