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Thread: Z8 Pricing.

  1. #1
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    Z8 Pricing.

    I was just checking on the NADA Guides and it appears that our
    Z8s are now listed under the classic car section > Collectibles > then choose your
    year (2000-2003 are listed along with only another have dozen or so BMWs -total!!)

    Good news for us, the milage is no longer considered or taken into account when considering value and it only goes toward the condition of the car and lists
    in low retail, average retail (the 20 footer - meaning looks flawless from 20 feet but has typical road dings, etc.) and the high retail (but this excludes the show car).

    An example is a 2003 lists as follows:

    Low retail - $82,125
    Ave. retail - $89,675
    High retail - $101,325

    Obviously, this is only a "guide" and there are lots to consider when selling or buying but is useful for those who want to try to use milage against anyone selling their Z8. Interesting though, they do not even list the Alpina.

    Great that there are only a few other models that are considered "collectible BMWs" by this reference guide....., ALL the Z8s, the e24 M6 (I have one of those too), the 1979 -80 M1 (wish list) and ALL production years(1956-59) for the 507 (bigger wish) and the all years for the 503 too.

    No M5, No M3 or other Z cars (not even the Z1), or MZ cars are listed as "collectible". Just thought that was interesting.
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  2. #2
    Z8Mania
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    Great info. I think they might not list the Z1 as it was never legally sold in the US.

  3. #3
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    No 3.0 CSL?

  4. #4
    Z8 Madness
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8doc View Post

    An example is a 2003 lists as follows:

    Low retail - $82,125
    Ave. retail - $89,675
    High retail - $101,325
    Awesome But the above numbers are on the low side.
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  5. #5
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    I know for a fact that these numbers are way low. I sold my 01 to a dealer for more than the high retail price listed for an 03. I routinely see cars trading at $120,000 and higher.

  6. #6
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    Yeah, I thought they were low too, especially when you look at the German car sites and see some low milage '01s (that are US Spec) going for $120,000 Euros or $149,900 Euros -- like that Orange and Black one! (that is nearly $200,000 USD!!)

    My point was mainly that in at least the NADA Guides, all four year models are listed in the Collectible Classic cars where the condition is most important and the milage is not really an issue in that category of car.
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  7. #7
    Sport Button On - DSC Off gutMD's Avatar
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    Jeff, I could not agree more.
    I also believe that color combination will also come into play at some point given the disparate production numbers over its production run.
    ---------------------------------
    Regards,
    Gary
    2002 Topaz // Crema

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    I think I may need to alter my current insurance coverage. Does anyone have any recommendations? I'm concerned if my car...god forbid.....was severely damaged in an accident that I would receive a settlement substantially lower than those shown here. Any advise on this?

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    You need to insure your Z8 for "agreed value". That way, if the car is totaled, the insurance company writes you a check for that amount, period. If your current insurance company doesn't offer this coverage, I'd recommend using one of the "classic car" insurance companies, like Hagerty Collector Car Insurance (800-922-4050). I use them to cover all of my valuable cars, including (2) Z8s and they are very flexible on the agreed value so you can build in some appreciation if you want. They also offer an inexpensive side policy which will provide free tow service, etc. anytime you need it. Great company to work with and they understand our concerns.

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    In the past, it seemed that the euro Z's that were subsequently brought over to the states (taking advantage of a strong dollar) were viewed as less valuable. Now that the dollar has slumped and it is easier to convert back to euro spec, are they worth a premium everything else being equal?

    (edited for spelling)

  11. #11
    are they worth a premium everything else being equal?
    As we hear more back from our EU members on registering cars imported from the US under the draconian 2008 TUV pollution laws this could turn out to be the case. Some countries make it harder than others, so we are still in the learning curve on this at the moment. It should be simpler to re-import and register an EU VIN into the stricter countries, but as yet we don't know for sure that owners are having US cars refused for registration under the new laws.

    I've heard that many kinds of cars, both classic and modern, are getting snapped up like our Z8's because of the dollar's woes. Many of these cars flowing back to the EU get registered in the UK or Holland first, and in theory can then be re-registered anywhere in Europe.
    Andrew Macpherson

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    Just a little food for thought:
    "Import duty in the U.S. is a modest 2.5%, and all cars built before 1982 are eligible for entry to the U.S. without meeting our insane Environmental Protection Agency and Department of Transportation laws. Import duty into England is 5% for the most collectible Ferraris that are at least 25 years old, with no VAT. Any Ferrari less than 25 years old faces a 10% duty, plus VAT that ranges from 17.5% to 19.6%, depending on the country. Germany, France, and Italy are at 19%, so England has become the clearing house for Ferraris on their way to Europe, as the English VAT is European Economic Community-transferable. Go to Brazil, a nation of car lovers, and the import duty is 105%, and no car less than 30 years old can be imported, period. Try Australia, a car-friendly but tiny market, and the import duty on a car less than 30 years old is 10% plus another 10% Goods and Service Tax (GST) and then another 25% luxury tax on the value over $57,000 Australian. If the car is 30 years old or older, the import duty is free, but you've still got the GST and luxury tax to account for. Want to import a ferrari into India? Forget it unless you can get an import license, which you probably cannot, regardless of your political or economic connections. If the gods are smiling and you are able to get a license, the duty is a breathtaking 165.72%. As for China, if you are willing to pay an 85% tax you can get anything in. But in the current Chinese culture, anyone with money wouldn't be caught dead in a "used" car. As for Russia, the customs import duty is a rational 15%, with a 20% VAT tacked on. Because Russia is geographically close to and directly connected with Europe, a horde of used Mercedes and American SUVs have made the journey, but, to date, very few classics - mostly Mercedes Benz 300SLs." Ferrari expert Mike Sheehan writing in Sports Car Market magazine.

  13. #13
    In the two week since this thread started I have seen several cars change hands, all of them low milage 'garage queens', and they have all sold in the $130-150k range. The strength of the Euro is having a very strong influence on prices, but also the car is becoming far more sought after now than ever before on both sides of the pond. It is very rewarding to all of us who have been with the Z8 from the start to observe this new wave of interest in our cars, and I'm thrilled that they've already become 'bankable classics'. I know this may sound a little optimistic, but I think having our band of 30+ cars at Monterey this year will also really up their profile, and maybe get folks like Keith Martin to take notice.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  14. #14
    Freedom Ouray's Avatar
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    Reading the post over the last few years it seems to me that low milage ranges in the 2,000 to 3,000 miles per year for most members of the board. Do the cars you have seen change hands recently in the $130-150 range fall into that annual category or are they even lower?

  15. #15
    Those have all been sub 8,000 mile cars. It seems that once you break around 8,000 miles you are on a plateau that lasts till around 20,000.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  16. #16
    Z8 Madness
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    This http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-...QQcmdZViewItem would be an interesting one to track. A sub 4K miles car with no reserve.
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    From the December 2000 issue of Bimmer Magazine by Jackie Jouret

    "GREAT EXPECTATIONS"

    "Everything has its price, and the price of the Z8 is very high, indeed. At $128,000 list - a price which is only theoretical, since you'll have to pay substantially more than that if you actually want one - the Z8 is the priciest BMW ever. And the price of that is an extremely high set of expectations for the Z8's performance, style and exclusivity. This, after all, is a car that has been priced by BMW into the loftiest of heights, where it must share the rarified air that is also breathed by cars like the Porsche Turbo and the Ferrari 360 Modena.

    It's been a long time since we drove the Z8 at the press intro in Los Angeles - six months, to be precise. In that time, we've also been fortunate enough to drive the cars against which the Z8 must compete. And although a direct comparison can't really be made without getting all the cars in question together for a scientific head-to-head comparo, the isolated experience of driving each of them is illuminating in its own way. And besides, when you're talking about cars this exquisite, to reduce the driving experience to a set of numbers is to miss out on its essence. These cars aren't just about 0-60 times and lateral grip; they're about transforming a drive into a journey, a metaphor for life.

    ...So can it compete with the latest from Porsche and Ferrari, as its spec sheet and price tag suggest? First of all, direct comparisons between these three cars will never be entirely possible; they're simply too different from one another in terms of their basic outline (front vs. mid vs. rear-engined, for instance).

    For my money, the Z8 is more fun to drive than the latest Porsche Turbo, which is just a little too Germanic for its own good, and it's a far more distinctive-looking car, as well. Where the Ferrari is concerned, it's hard to get more visually striking than any of the cars from Maranello, but I have to say that I find it far easier to imagine myself in a long-term relationship with a Z8 than a 360 Modena or Spider. Driving a Modena all day is an exhausting proposition; driving a Z8 all day is a rejuvenating one. In that respect, it's more like Ferrari's quarter-million dollar stablemate, the 550 Maranello. Like the 550, the Z8 is a comfortable, biggish car that doesn't bludgeon the driver to death with its sporting abilities. It's fast, yes, but it isn't about top speed.

    Driving the Z8 is sublime. It takes "retro" from design concept to driving reality - in a positive, life-affirming way. There's something about getting behind the wheel of this supremely civilized vehicle that seems capable of transporting you back to a more civilized time, one before monster traffic jams and road rage. It's hard to feel impatient in the Z8 no matter how fast you're going - it does so little wrong, and it's so comfortable and welcoming inside. It's a driving experience that you can't really put a price tag on, or define with a stopwatch. With all the best cars, it's about much more than that.

    With the Z8, it's about combining supercar levels of performance with high style and efficiency. And unlike other exotics, it's a BMW, so it isn't going to blow up or need to visit the dealer every few months for upgrades of things the factory should have engineered properly from the start. It's a finished product, and a classic right out of the crate - one that you can enjoy every day for the rest of your life. And the more you drive it, the more you're going to enjoy it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by redz8 View Post
    This http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-...QQcmdZViewItem would be an interesting one to track. A sub 4K miles car with no reserve.
    I have seen the Z8 emblem behind the decklid on several vehicles. Was that standard on the 02's or is that perhaps a dealer addition?

  19. #19
    That emblem was one of the only extras you could order for/with the car. I personally like it without that badge, it makes it much harder to define what the car is to those who don't know.

    GM, great quote - thanks so much!! :-)
    Andrew Macpherson

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  20. #20
    Freedom Ouray's Avatar
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    At 8,700 miles I guess it is time to decide whether to drive and enjoy my Alpina or put it on a pedestal!

  21. #21
    Z8 Madness
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    With 17K on the clock, my plan is to drive about 1-3K per year. If the bank robbery goes as planned, I may just follow Andrew's lead and get a ultra low millage car, preferably black with red interior -- my first choice.

    BTW, rumor has it that Crevier BMW has a brand new Z8 in their warehouse. The owner refuses to sell!
    62050 - Z8

  22. #22
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    He put away three Alpinas in 2003. In September of 05, I brokered the Black/Crema one at full sticker of just under 140K. The same day, they sold their Silver/Black one. That left an all Black one which is what you are referring to.

  23. #23
    Having two has always been the best option, one to drive and one to keep. I'm thrilled to have a keeper once more as my 02 is about to bust in the 9k's and I plan to drive her until the end of my days, hopefully breaking the 100k barrier! The reason to have these cars is to enjoy them, if your enjoyment is in the driving then drive it, and if your enjoyment is in preserving it then preserve it - but the only way to do both is have two!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  24. #24
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    Silver/Black 2002 with 3.7K Miles sold for $121,200.00 on Ebay.
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  25. #25
    That is great price for the buyer considering what some late 02 & 03's have been fetching lately!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayvenhurstkid View Post
    He put away three Alpinas in 2003. In September of 05, I brokered the Black/Crema one at full sticker of just under 140K. The same day, they sold their Silver/Black one. That left an all Black one which is what you are referring to.
    They can probably fetch 200K+ for a brand new Alpina.
    62050 - Z8

  27. #27
    A mint zero miles Alpina in the EU is easily worth $300k today, so I don't think there'd be any problem with getting $200k for it here. Oddly enough Alpina's are actually more valuable than Z8's in much of the EU, while here in the US they seem to remain on equal value with the Z8. I know we are just entering a long tough period for the economy, but I predict that like Dusenbergs, Rolls and Bentleys of the 20's & 30's our Z8 will maintain, and even grow in value.

    With so many makers like AM, Ferrari, Porsche, Bentley, Rolls, Lambo etc, all well into the 200k range this isn't such an unreasonable expectation for a really timeless classic. It is my prediction that the Z8 will keep pace with the top of the range BMW's. I think that only the 507, which is now a $500k car, would make for a better investment.

    I had heard it said that BMW want to follow MB's Classic program, and turn the Mobile Tradition division into a profit center for the brand. The only way to do that is support the company's history, and once our car get to be over a certain age we will be a large part of the possible revenue stream of such a division. If this does happen it gives us something very exciting to look forward to.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  28. #28
    Z8Mania
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    I would suggest BMW needs to do this because the heritage is a competitive advantage. Otherwise all you are selling is the latest and greatest and the competition is only getting stronger. Fortunately BMW seems to be able to move the target well but this industry is so tough that if you have an advantage you should use it.

  29. #29
    Z8 Guru 2112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grease Monkey View Post
    You need to insure your Z8 for "agreed value". That way, if the car is totaled, the insurance company writes you a check for that amount, period. If your current insurance company doesn't offer this coverage, I'd recommend using one of the "classic car" insurance companies, like Hagerty Collector Car Insurance (800-922-4050). I use them to cover all of my valuable cars, including (2) Z8s and they are very flexible on the agreed value so you can build in some appreciation if you want. They also offer an inexpensive side policy which will provide free tow service, etc. anytime you need it. Great company to work with and they understand our concerns.
    did you have any problem getting agreed value on your Dinan modified car? I have been told that unless it is stock or at the most factory upgraded (think AMG) they may not give you the agreed value or in some cases not insure the car at all.
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

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    I have a very high agreed value on my driver Z8 and Hagerty did not blink an eye.

  31. #31
    Z8 Guru 2112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grease Monkey View Post
    I have a very high agreed value on my driver Z8 and Hagerty did not blink an eye.
    OK, but were they aware of everything you did? This is the same scenario with the offshore boat scene. If you do not divulge every performance upgrade, (and even if you do), you can expect a fight if a claim is ever made.

    I just recieved a warning from my agreed value policy (boat) carrier that after this year, I will have to provide certified Dyno reports on the exact horsepower and torque values of my engines. If they are higher that what I estimate I can expect much higher rates and possible dismissal. This is after 17 years of claim free premium payment.

    So I am just curious I want and need Agreed value coverage that will actually be there if the worst should ever happen.
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  32. #32
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    I think it is a crap shoot regardless...

    of which type of insurance you have. The bottom line for most insurance companies is to 'minimize' any claim they get, even if you have previous 'agreed' value = 'adjuster' means 'adjust' the claim amount.

    I think Hagerty is probably the best around and as your 17 year claim history illustrated with your boat, you buy for piece of mind and seriously hope you do not ever need to make a claim.
    Last edited by Z8doc; May 4th 2008 at 22:52.
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102