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Thread: Is it worth it?

  1. #1
    Z8 Novice
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    Is it worth it?

    I purchased a 2003 Z8 with 41,000 miles from a BMW certified dealer. Come to find out that the car had a very shody AC Schnitzer suspension install by some chop shop (Avus reccomends a re-do for $3,000) as well as having had the right front fender replaced and the hood and passenger door painted. Car is otherwise clean. Exotic car body shop gives the body work a B grade and says no structural issues. Dealer stated "no accidents, no paint job, no mods." Paid 88K. Love the car, but hate being taken advantage of.
    Keep it? Sell it? Return to the dealer (this may be an option for me)? Buy another z8? If I keep it, I plan to really enjoy her and drive her hard. Not into garage queens. Opinions?

    GR

  2. #2
    Team Z8
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    Man, I'd be furious. There are a number of legitimate cars out there for similar money. If you plan on a long relationship with this car, get the one you paid for. You need to have a pointed discussion with this dealer. JMO

  3. #3
    Z8Mania
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    When did you buy it? If you can return it to the dealer I would do it ASAP- get the money back and find another one thats clean.

  4. #4
    I agree, get what you want, and don't stand for being sold a lie.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  5. #5
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Give it back if you can. Otherwise you will be looking at the repainted panels every time you go for a drive, and think about being taken advantage of rather than the incredible experience that the Z8 truly is. Its one thing to damage your own car and have it repaired, stuff happens. But thinking that you're buying one thing and getting another would drive me mad. This car and the community that comes with it are too special to start with a bad experience.

  6. #6
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    Hi
    Being based in the UK it is difficult to comment on the American market, However if I was sold a car from a main dealer that was not as described, not only would I take it back and demand my money to be returned, I would look for compensation for the misdescription and inconvenience you have suffered.
    If you do not have a satisfactory result report the complaint to BMW customer services whom on past experience will take up the matter on your behalf.

    Good Luck !

  7. #7
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    What a pain!!

    I talked to the general manager at Assael BMW-Marco Antzas (Monrovia, California 408-210-0004 (cell)) and he seemed reasonable. He said bring the car back and we'll unwind the deal. Then he gets his sales manager Willie Chia (626-705-6744) to call me and start trying to make deals. Today Willie calls me and says sorry, car was sold "as is". Obviously "as is" means "as is" as represented. I don't beleve for a minute that the dealer didn't know about such extensive repairs. I had specificaly questioned the salesman, Simon Mahmud (909-730-9557) as to whether the car had mods, been painted or been in an accident. Answer was a firm "no." Anyways, I'm handing it over to my lawyers. Their looking into the California lemon laws. In the meantime, it's A-S-S-A-E-L BMW, Monrovia, California, USA 626-358-4269.

    GR

  8. #8
    Z8Mania
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    it will be interesting to hear what your lawyer says. Sorry you are going through this.

  9. #9
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    What a shame. My experience with the BMW dealerships across the country have been nothing but positive, with general managers going out of their way to make every experience a really good one. I'm saddened that there are some dealerships that don't measure up to the high corporate standards. Before you rack up high legal fees, perhaps a call to the BMW corporate offices in NJ might get things moving in the right direction.

  10. #10
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    George,
    Hope the names & numbers I gave you help. Let us know what happens.

  11. #11
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    I am a licensed dealer in the State of California. To unwind a deal, you must either prove fraud or a misrepresentation of facts took place. If you bought the car from a private party, you would be fighting an uphill battle, but dealers are held to a different standard. If they said the car had no damage history or paintwork when in fact it did, it is at least a misrepresentation of facts and, if they knew, probably fraud as well. I am really surprised they won't unwind the deal. I would also file a complaint with the DMV. Also, see if you can get a report on the damage repair. I am curious if the previous owner repaired it or Assael did the work. Run a Car Fax report and the work should show up on the report and it will have a date of when the damage occurred. There is no way, in my mind, that they did not know. The VIN lable is now missing on the replaced fender and any dealer knows that means a replacement. In the future, I would hire a competent person who knows Z8's and have a pre buy inspection done. It is the best money you will spend. Good luck and keep at it until they do the right thing and take the car back!

  12. #12
    Z8 Madness
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    Ouch! I hope it all works out for you. Once settled, please post the VIN to help track these cars.
    62050 - Z8

  13. #13
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    Thanks for the advice Hayvenhurst kid. The repairs did not show up on carfax. The suspension and repair work was not done at ASSAEL BMW. You are quite correct about the VIN sticker, its missing from the fender. Obviously, I feel foolish for being trustfull. After being assured that the Z was clean, I was told "Hey, that's why you go to a certified dealer, you can trust us." Wow! I guess you can't trust anyone. I got a call from Marco Antzman (408-210-0004) the GM today. He said sorry, sold "as is." I can't believe that they are willing to generate such bad will, sacrifice future sales, rack up legal fees and inconvenience.
    Bob was kind enough to provide me with some BMW USA numbers and I'll be calling those later today. Ken's right, the car is too special to have to start off an experience like this. It almost seems sacriligeous.
    I'll keep everyone posted and hopefully we can all learn from this.
    GR

  14. #14
    Thanks so much for keeping us in the loop, and letting us know exactly what kind of dealership Assael is.

    I am appalled that they can be so dishonest, to have done the work themselves, and then straight up lied that the car was unmolested. I really hope you can do a lot more than just get it into the courts, I hope you can get it into the local papers and news channels - these people do not deserve to be in business, much less have a BMW franchise. Good luck dealing with them.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  15. #15
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    I am truly shocked that they are taking the position that they are. Have your attorney look up in the California Vehicle Code section 11713.18. This deals with the purchase of used cars from a dealer. I think #4 may apply to your case. As part of my job, several attorneys use me in cases as an expert witness. I would be glad to help if your attorney need me. Just send me a PM.
    P.S. #6 may also apply.

  16. #16
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    Thanks Hayvenhurstkid. I'll pass along the info. It's midnight, I haven't seen my three kids all day and I've been doing brain surgery all day. Too bad I have to deal with this crap. Shame on them!! This blog has convinced me that once this is over I'm getting another Z8 (I hope my wife doesn't read this). It's a great community! I spoke with Don Furguson at BMW USA today. He's in charge of the certified used car program. He was very straightforward and supportive. BMW did a great thing with this car. Something special. It's sad that a certified dealer would mess with that. It's not often that an automaker leaves a legacy like this for generations to come.
    .....The saga continues.

    George Rappard

  17. #17
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    I agree. This forum has been a blessing. Even though I inspected my car before buying it, I still did not see the foggy headlights or the leather slightly delaminating on the dash. It was this forum that guided me and I got BMW NA to pretty much pay for the entire bill on both repairs even though my car was over two years out of warranty! Don't give up on the Z8. Once they take the car back, and I am betting a call or letter from your attorney may just do the trick, find a good car and you will love it for life!

  18. #18
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    Well, tommorrow is wednesday and if I don't here anything from ASSAEL BMW (Monrovia, California) by 5PM pacific time we're filing suit. A review of the maintenance records suggests that they may have arranged the body work themselves. Disgusting! I'm surprised that these folks are so willing to trade their reputation in for whatever profit they gleaned off my Z8. Most professionals would agree that their reputations are far more valuable.
    GR

  19. #19
    I'm horrified that BMW NA would want such scoundrels representing their brand, and that you haven't had any response from them directly.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  20. #20
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    If you can prove that Assael either knew the work had be done or, better yet, arranged for it, they are guilty of fraud and you have them. It is a shame you may have to proceed legally and incur legal costs, but you will win, they will have to take the car back, and they will have to pay your legal fees. It is absolutely astounding that a dealer would act this way on ANY car, let alone a Z8!

  21. #21
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Anything new with Assael? Have they seen the light yet?

  22. #22
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    Update on Assael

    I filed in court. We served them last week. They responded by offering to unwind the deal but not pay legal costs or rental fees. Funny, they had the same opportunity before there were any legal fees. Whatever. They're gonna eat the legal fees or I'm going to court.

    GR

  23. #23
    Good luck in court, I really hope the judge suspends their license to trade, and BMW NA revokes their dealership.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  24. #24
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Good for you. They had plenty of time to do the right thing and now, when served with legal action, they decide they will take the car back. Too late!!! I would insist on all monetary outlays to be refunded as well as a very sincere letter of apology. Unfortunately, only the DMV can pull their license and I don't think this is reason enough; however, I would think that BMW NA would want to severly reprimand them for their actions. Good Luck.

  25. #25
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    GR, good luck. Hope it works out. Please keep us informed and post the vin too. What color is the car?

  26. #26
    Any update on this sad tale?
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.