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Thread: Central rear view mirror discoloration

  1. #76
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I believe the only difference is the rain-sensing wipers on the 5, but I'm not sure if that connection is on the same buss or a separate connection. If it's the same, it's likely the same plug on both cars, but it would be a dead pin on the Z8, which wouldn't be a problem. As I've seen on most of the modern BMWs, the plastic shroud around the rain sensor is just cosmetic, and the mirror mount is separate.

    The more I look, I think it will work. We'll see.
    thegunguy

  2. #77
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness
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    If it fits, count me in for one, but only if it is in the 350-400 range, as I can get mine fixed for 1/4 of that.
    2003 Z8 Black/Red

  3. #78
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    My thought is that if the oval mirror is a workable alternative, it could open up the BMW or manufacturer replacement program to better supply and potentially reduced costs due to the greater numbers of E46 and E39 cars that use the mirror, etc.
    thegunguy

  4. #79
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness
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    Sybesmas fixed my mirror and did a perfect job. Turnaround time was about 10 days (including shipping) and the cost was a very reasonable $95
    2003 Z8 Black/Red

  5. #80
    That's good to hear as I took my car out last Sunday and for the first time saw the dreaded mirror coloration when it was cold. Oddly enough it was gone when I got home, but I guess it'll get progressively worse from here, so I may take the premptive change before the goo starts to drip out of it.
    Rifle et me know if the no-goo mirror works, as I think I'd prefer go that route.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  6. #81
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Let me check with Dana. I haven't heard from him.
    thegunguy

  7. #82
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Matt at Peter Pan called today about my E39 M5 mirror swap idea. The swap is definitely viable. The connector is the same on both cars/mirrors, but there are a few pin changes that will need to be made to the E39 mirror, which should be quite easy once we sort out the pins. Matt's sending over the wiring for both mirrors in the next day or so. He's already mapped out what he believes needs to be changed. Pin connections include power and the alarm/key sender. After I check it over, I'll get an E39 M mirror, move the pins, install, and resync the keys. Should be pretty easy.

    There is one small drawback. The E39 has map lights in the upper console, not in the mirror. So, the change will eliminate the Z8's primary interior lamps as they serve as dual purpose with the map lights built in to the mirror. The footwell lights would still function, but there would be nothing overhead. Actually, the amber pin lights would still be there for reading maps, etc. without destroying your night-adjusted eyes. For me, it's no real loss in the Z8. My DD...sure.

    As noted by Tony and others, it sounds like the swap program on the original mirror is the way to go if you can't get BMW to cover a defective mirror. However, my desire is to reduce the size of the bulky OE mirror, which can easily hide a large truck at a 4-way stop. The M E39 is a bit smaller to help with this, and I think it will also better match the styling of the interior.

    Project thread to come...(after I paint my grill).
    thegunguy

  8. #83
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    Looks like there's a good chance this could work.
    2003 Z8 Black/Red

  9. #84
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    My incoming Alpina "this morning it will arrive" has the mirror problem. I have a friend who works for the local BMW dealer right by my house. I got a new mirror for his cost which was $335.
    Marty

    2001 Z8
    2014 Range Rover sport Autobiography
    2013 Ford Raptor
    2011 Porsche 911 turbo S coupe

  10. #85
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    $335 is a great price. The best I could do was $500 through the dealer. Ultimately, I went with the repair job and it cost $100. To be honest, you can't tell the difference between the repaired one and brand new one.
    2003 Z8 Black/Red

  11. #86
    Team Z8 RRZ8's Avatar
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    Just before leaving for 'Goodwood' (Festival of Speed) tomorrow, together with another Z8 friend, I checked mine for the trip to find out that my mirror has the 'mirror-problem too..... It is actually leaking fluid out of the front sensor
    Just called with BMW, they told me that this is not a warranty replacement. Too bad. I guess I will have to drive on the left (!) side of the road (never done it) without a rearview mirror this weekend

  12. #87
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    You'll want to ensure that the fluid is not getting on your trim. As I recall, it can damage the leather and plastic.

    Certainly, all cars are well out of warranty by now, but BMW has been known to work with owners on a case by case basis with various issues in either good will repairs or some level of assistance. I'm not sure how it would work in the UK, especially since there are so few cars, but BMW NA has helped with this issue in the past.
    thegunguy

  13. #88
    Rifle, did you ever get that non-fluid X3 mirror you were talking about? I'd like to get rid of the fluid filled mirror giventhe chance.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  14. #89
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    The one I was hoping to use is from the E39/E46 M5/M3, and it uses the same fluid design. My hope was more on finding a smaller mirror that also better fit the interior design, rather than addressing the fluid issue directly. That being said I'd be totally cool for something smaller/prettier that eliminated the auto-dimming feature. The struggle would be rehoming the keyless entry antenna, which is currently housed in the mirror assembly.

    I have the wiring diagram from Matt for changing to the E39 mirror, but I just haven't gone out to purchase one and test.
    thegunguy

  15. #90
    Keep us posted for sure. I wonder if there is a way of just swapping out the glass for something without fluid?
    Andrew Macpherson

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  16. #91
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness
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    I took mine apart prior to shipping it out for repair. It is entirely possible to swap the glass for a simple mirror cut to shape. That was my original plan, but ultimately I decided to repair it back to orignial specs this time.

    P.S., if you do decide to take it apart, take your time and be careful. Everything in there is rather delicate, as expected.
    2003 Z8 Black/Red

  17. #92
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Good ideas. My ultimate goal is to come up with an alternative that is 1) smaller, 2) better matches the interior design, and 3) doesn't leak. The challenge is with the existing mirror being multifunction in housing the interior lights and the keyless entry antenna.

    Maybe we should approach the vendor about making a small lot of custom mirrors.
    thegunguy

  18. #93
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    Rifle, if you do that wouldn't you be losing the auto dimming function so would you have to build in a flip switch to tilt the mirror up/down? FWIW, I prefer the old fashioned mirrors because these auto dimming mirrors often don't dim enough for my liking.

  19. #94
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Yes, but ther may be a alternative technology that doesn't use fluid. We just need to do some looking around.
    thegunguy

  20. #95
    Z8Mania
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    That would be nice. Its usually a good policy to keep fluid and technology apart

  21. #96
    Team Z8 RRZ8's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tips guys, at this point I think I will just replace it by a new OEM one... (hope the seals have been improved)

  22. #97
    DSC Off CraZ8's Johnny Q's Avatar
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    I had my car in the dealer for an oil change. When I picked up the car, it had oil on the mirror. I thought maybe the mechanic somehow got oil on the mirror.

    I guess mine mirror just failed like others here. I've ordered a new one. Bill Stuart got me the 50% discount.
    2002 Silver/Black

  23. #98
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    I have just received my mirror back from repair by Radar Mirror.
    Perfect repair, turnaround and communication, exactly as promised.
    $99.00 + shipping ($10.00). Less than a week roundtrip.

    Highly recommended.
    http://www.radar-mirror.com/Mirror_Repair.html

  24. #99
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    Thanks!! I'll file that for future reference!!

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by hlmiii View Post
    I have just received my mirror back from repair by Radar Mirror.
    Perfect repair, turnaround and communication, exactly as promised.
    $99.00 + shipping ($10.00). Less than a week roundtrip.

    Highly recommended.
    http://www.radar-mirror.com/Mirror_Repair.html
    Martin I had the same good experience. I am in Dallas and noticed you are also in TX and we bought our Z8's about the same time. Are you near Dallas?
    Charles Guerin
    AH61406 - Titanium Silver/ /Black

  26. #101
    Just got my car out, and my second mirror has it bad, and big time. Anyone know how long I have till the dreaded drips start?
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  27. #102
    Z8Mania
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    Mine never leaked externally. It leaked internally to the point that it ruined the key unlock antenna so I couldnt open or close the car with the remote, I had to do it the old fashioned way. I was told leaking out was imminent. So it seems to me if the radio function of the key locking is still working you probably have a little time, but Id get it addressed right away.

  28. #103
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    And put something on the console to protect it!
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  29. #104
    Z8Mania
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    GOOD IDEA!! Perhaps rig up a plastic container to catch ....

  30. #105
    Team Z8 Charles's Avatar
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    If you have the oval in the center, I had no problems for the 3 or so weeks until I got new glass. If you have the "s" shaped line at the top or bottom, I would get it fixed fixed fast.
    Charles Guerin
    AH61406 - Titanium Silver/ /Black

  31. #106
    Once again Bill Stuart rode to the rescue!!

    My new mirror was installed at Beverly Hills BMW today and I'm now fully ready for the drive north!

    It really is magic having BMW NA stand behind our cars as well as they do.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  32. #107
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    Bill Stuart

  33. #108
    Team Z8 Charles's Avatar
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    Hope it was not NOS. If so, it might have been better to just replace the glass. According to the guy who replaced my glass, the mirrors ordered for the Z8 had this problem because the original glass supplier for the mirrors supplied faulty glass for the mirrors. This supposedly did not affect other BMW's as they used a different supplier.
    Charles Guerin
    AH61406 - Titanium Silver/ /Black

  34. #109
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Doug Dolan's Avatar
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    Just got my repaired mirror back from Sybesma's Electronics. Looks like new! (Before it looked as bad as redZ8's picture earlier in this thread.) Thanks to the forum I knew how to remove the mirror (very easy!) for shipping. Sybesma's did a great job for $97 including shipping and turnaround was less than a week. Re-installation was just as easy and took less than 5 minutes. It's nice to look back through a clean rearview mirror!
    Doug Dolan
    61297 - Stratus / Crema

  35. #110
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Kevin's Avatar
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    Just noticed this problem on my 03 with 11,900 Miles. Does anyone know if Bill Stuart would help a second owner get the part for free or is it original owners only?
    2003 Z8 Silver/Black AH62031 (Sold)

  36. #111
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Doubt very strongly you will get it for free. You might get a discount on the part but that would be it.
    Marty

    2001 Z8
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  37. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by hayvenhurstkid View Post
    Doubt very strongly you will get it for free. You might get a discount on the part but that would be it.
    I received 50% off on mine in 2010 (I think) as a non-original owner through Bill Stuart. What a guy!
    Skip Hammerman

    2002 BMW Z8 - Meisterschaft GT, PP installed, CDV delete
    2013 BMW X3
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  38. #113
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    You guys are well cared for by BMWNA....I payed last week 2000 dollars for a new rear light :-(
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  39. #114
    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
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    I have been talking to BMWna and they offered me 25% off the mirror, whole job will be $365 installed at Wide world of cars in Nanuet NY
    2002 Silver Black/Red

    Dinan stage 4 software
    Dinan low restriction carbon fiber airboxes
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    performance package
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  40. #115
    Z8Mania
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    BMW and BMWNA have been spectacularly wonderful to me.

  41. #116
    I have to say that in the fullness of time BMW NA have really blown me away with their support of the Z8, and they continue to be a huge help.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  42. #117
    Don't wish to hijack this thread, but I have a question about the rear view mirror.

    Whilst enthusiastically polishing the inside of my windscreen last night I completely knocked off the red sensor on the bottom of the mirror. Everything is intact inside, but the red half globe is separated from it's stork.

    I didn't know whether it possible to replace this or will it mean a new mirror?

  43. #118
    Did it break the plastic, or did it just pop out?

    If broken I'd try some serious plastic superglue first, as all it needs to do is hold it in place.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  44. #119
    It actually broke off. I've glued it back with Araldite and it works ok and looks ok, but not completely level.

    I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so if it's an easy thing to replace I'd rather.

    :-)

  45. #120
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    Did it break the plastic, or did it just pop out?

    If broken I'd try some serious plastic superglue first, as all it needs to do is hold it in place.
    But If I recall well isn't it a switch for the reading lights ???
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  46. #121
    Yes it is. It still works. I glued it back just as it was.

    My question really is can it be replaced?

  47. #122
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    IMO not

    http://www.bmwetk.info/images/images/63503.jpg

    as you see the mirror is sold in one
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  48. #123
    That answers that then!

    Thanks for your help.


  49. #124
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Doug Dolan's Avatar
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    No, there are two little buttons on either side of the red light for each of the reading lights. See the mirror pictures further back in this post.
    Doug Dolan
    61297 - Stratus / Crema

  50. #125
    You are correct, but the red centre half globe is also a button for switching on the interior light, and for whether or not the interior light comes on when the doors open.

  51. #126
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    Great info here as usual. I've got four Z8 mirrors needing service/replacement. I did remove them from the cars and fortunately none of them actually leaked onto the console or anything. The one on the Alpina did drip when I tilted it to remove though! I quickly cleaned up the fluid and don't believe anything was damaged.
    When the mirrors are sent off to Sybesmas, do they do a complete disassembly and cleaning of them before replacing the defective bits? It looks like the inner part of the interior light lenses is a bit messy and I don't know if they're also damaged. I should have checked here first because I would have tested the keys first to see if there was antenna damage before removing them.
    Would anyone recommend bugging Bill Stuart about this at this point, or am I best off just sending them off?


    Gar

  52. #127
    Since your team have purchased a considerable number of BMW's I would absolutely talk to Bill, you should find him accommodating. Also I have several buyers looking for what you have there, so please don't hesitate to contact me should you guys consider letting anything else go.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  53. #128
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    Once again, outstanding information made available via this board. I ran into the rear view mirror issue recently on my 2000 Z8. Peter Pan BMW only offered a brand-new mirror for $650. I read about Radar Mirror here on the board and for $110 they turned around a great fix on the mirror. I used the instructions also posted on this board to take off and reinstall the repaired mirror, and everything checks out perfectly. A $530 savings. Thanks guys :-)

  54. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGar View Post
    Great info here as usual. I've got four Z8 mirrors needing service/replacement. I did remove them from the cars and fortunately none of them actually leaked onto the console or anything. The one on the Alpina did drip when I tilted it to remove though! I quickly cleaned up the fluid and don't believe anything was damaged.
    When the mirrors are sent off to Sybesmas, do they do a complete disassembly and cleaning of them before replacing the defective bits? It looks like the inner part of the interior light lenses is a bit messy and I don't know if they're also damaged. I should have checked here first because I would have tested the keys first to see if there was antenna damage before removing them.
    Would anyone recommend bugging Bill Stuart about this at this point, or am I best off just sending them off?


    Gar
    I wanted to report that Sybesma Electronics did a fantastic job repairing the mirrors. I shipped one out for a client and when it came back perfect, I shipped the other three for another client. I did insure them for $1,000 each and paid Sybesma a few bucks extra to insure them for the same on the way back. Not my mirrors so I wanted to make sure there were no problems.



    Gar

  55. #130
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Doug Dolan's Avatar
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    That was my experience with Sybesmas too. Great experience!
    Doug Dolan
    61297 - Stratus / Crema

  56. #131
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    Kudos to BMW customer service. Got a gratis rear mirror for my failed one this week. Original owner 2002, #1750, with 17K miles.

  57. #132
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    You guys are lucky with this kind of customer service!
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  58. #133
    DSC Off Gammaman's Avatar
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    Would like to get my mirror fixed before Spring rolls around. Two questions: Any trick to detaching the electrical connector, and does the mirror twist off or should you push forward per the diagram listed above? I've gone through the thread, and both ways are mentioned. Thanks!

  59. #134
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    The mirror with stalk twists off with simultaneous push. No trouble disconnecting from electrical supply. I also didn't disconnect battery.

  60. #135
    I think it's a push-twist, but with one hand on the other side of the glass for safety, and the connector is a standard unclip and pull automotive one.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  61. #136
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    Well, it's certainly interesting that the instructions that you posted, Andrew, say that twisting poses a risk of damage, but someone on the M5 board posted instructions to twist from 6:00 to 3:00:

    IMPORTANT REMOVAL/REPLACEMENT INSTRUCTIONS
    1. There are two black cover shells which easily pull off the back of the mirror
    2. Once the plastic covers are removed, it is time to remove the mirror by TWISTING the mirror "stalk" from the 6 O'clock to towards the 3 o'clock position. DO NOT pull the mirror but use a twisting motion.
    3. Once the mirror is disconnected, uncouple the wiring connector.
    4. This process should take about 3-5 minutes at the most.

    If they use the same mount then I'm confused.

  62. #137
    It says the same thing, so no need for confusion, just caution. One owner did crack his windshield in the process, hence the cautionary hand on the other side of the glass to counter the force you're applying.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  63. #138
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    There are no black (side) covers to remove on the oval Z8 mirrors.

    To remove: simply grab the mirror support arm and twist it counterclockwise 1/4 turn. It will loosen on its own.

    Notes:
    - there is a circular disc glued to the windshield. It has a male triangular "landing" on it which fits an associated female opening at the top of the supporting arm. It is these two parts that are being twisted to a release position.
    - make certain that your twist/turn motion is parallel to the plane of the windshield. Any noticeable vertical or horizontal deviation will stress and possibly break the tempered glass.
    - be firm with your twist. It is better to make one good, confident twist than several weak attempts which risk stress.
    - Andrew's "push" is from the outside of the windshield, to simply provide assurance that the glass itself is not subject to stress. Do NOT push the support arm in any direction, including in toward the windshield. I have never found it necessary for any push (if I'm misunderstanding you, Andrew, please forgive and correct!).
    - once the mirror is removed then you can remove the arm cover and disconnect the power cord. I find this sequence easier than removing the cover and disconnecting the connector while the mirror is still on the windshield.
    - reinstallation is exactly the reverse process.

    This work is much easier and less risky than it sounds. Just be confident and intelligent and you'll be fine.
    Good luck.

  64. #139
    DSC Off Gammaman's Avatar
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    OK, thanks gentlemen, I'll give it a go!

  65. #140
    DSC Off Gammaman's Avatar
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    Thanks, hlmiii, the mirror came off just as you said. I must sound like a complete spaz, but I still can't uncouple the plug,argh!

  66. #141
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    Yep. Out of the frying pan. Into the fire ...
    You'd think that the most sensitive step - prevent windshield from shattering - would be the more difficult one.
    You'd be wrong.

    The plug assembly is a serious PITA.
    There are no "tricks" here. It's just a matter of repeated effort and a bit of good fortune. The plug assembly is tightly-fitted and separation is made more difficult after many years. And there aren't any areas where fingers can get a good grip.

    All I can tell you is to get at least one pair of very long-nose pliers; two would be better. Get a flashlight - the brighter the better (LED would be best).
    Use the flashlight to give yourself an idea of where and how the assembly separates, and where the best areas are to focus the pressure to enable a good pull.
    Then ... just go at it. It is uncomfortable but the key, again, is to be firm and go at it with some serious, steady force. Show that assembly who is boss and that you will win the fight.

    The plastic is very tough and you won't break anything (unless you really screw up).
    If you're seriously concerned about some slight marks on the plugs, you can interpose cloth between the jaws and the plugs. But that will lessen the grip and make things more difficult.

    Good luck.
    Let us know. Call if you want.
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  67. #142
    Team Z8 Charles's Avatar
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    Also as I recall, don't be surprised that you have electrical issues (I think I could not open the trunk with the key fob, and perhaps not the glovebox with the actual key) until the mirror is re-attached.
    Charles Guerin
    AH61406 - Titanium Silver/ /Black

  68. #143
    DSC Off Gammaman's Avatar
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    Finally got the mirror out! Like many things, easy once you know how. With the mirror removed, you can pull the plug assembly out and away from the mirror. This was the key, at first I didn't know it would come right out. Once it's away from the mounting shaft of the mirror, you can squeeze the tabs on BOTH SIDES of the plug, and voila! The mirror is now at Sybesma's, should have it back next week.

  69. #144
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    My mirror (the 3rd replacement from BMW) has failed again. I'll send it out to Sybesma's this time.
    Dirk

    Alpina #142
    www.bmwccca.com

  70. #145
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    Gammaman - Congrats!
    I know that's a relief.

    Suggestion for a few people above: try Radar-Mirror (radar-mirror.com) as an alternative. I and many other people have run 2 - 3 dozen mirrors through them in the past several years, with no subsequent failures.

    In any event - good luck.

  71. #146
    DSC Off Gammaman's Avatar
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    Got my mirror back, looks perfect! Have new trunk lid struts on order, after that I should be good to go, unless the soft top strings are going...had them replaced once under warranty but haven't checked them in a while.

  72. #147
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkZ8 View Post
    My mirror (the 3rd replacement from BMW) has failed again. I'll send it out to Sybesma's this time.
    Was pleasantly surprised when Sybesma's told me that the new replacement units do not have liquid, i.e. no more leaking.
    Dirk

    Alpina #142
    www.bmwccca.com

  73. #148
    DSC Off Gammaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    85
    That's awesome! I hadn't actually spoken to them, just followed their email instructions, but the mirror looks better than new. Nice to know it should stay like that

  74. #149
    DSC Off
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    82
    Sybesma's is great. I've done an SLK Mercedes mirror with them and about seven Z8 mirrors. Always perfect and quick turnaround.



    Gar

  75. #150
    Has anyone asked Sybesma's about tackling a tail light repair? I looked at their website and they seem to be open to attempting all manner of electronics repairs.

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