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Thread: Broken plastic tabs on convertible top boot

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayvenhurstkid View Post
    Order quickly. Down to like six sets left in Germany.
    Ok. How? From where?


    Thanks.

  2. #77
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Any BMW dealer.
    Marty

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  3. #78
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    Uh ... ok. I can do that.
    LOL!!

    Thanks.

  4. #79
    Connecting the dots, the need for fabricating the tabs in stainless steel or other metal appears to be gone or at least greatly diminished.

    I'm not savvy enough to set up a survey on this forum, but I would be curious to know if the long and short tabs fail at the same rate. If the rates are equal and those stockpiling the repair kits are willing to share/sell their "good" tab, we should be in reasonable shape in the short to mid term for mitigating the need to buy complete boots even if BMW does not reproduce the repair kit once depleted.

    Now about those neon tubes in the tail lights...
    My Best,

    Ed

    2002 Z8 Jet Black//Sport Red
    2012 SLS AMG Obsidian Black/Classic Red

  5. #80
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    I think it was the long one that failed on me and that is the one I usually put in first.

  6. #81
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    If you break one, it will be the longer one 98% of the time.
    Marty

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  7. #82

    Does size matter?

    I would venture to guess that while it may be more difficult to install, two short tabs would secure the boot.
    My Best,

    Ed

    2002 Z8 Jet Black//Sport Red
    2012 SLS AMG Obsidian Black/Classic Red

  8. #83
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    Stopped by my local dealership yesterday...told the top kits are showing sold out/no stock. Guess we'll wait to see if BMW restocks this part.

  9. #84
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    Kinda like the Euro Taillights?

    I think Marty's stainless retrofit may be a better option when dialed in.
    .
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  10. #85
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    I agree but in the meantime I bought two pairs before they sold out.
    Marty

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  11. #86
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Should be receiving the prototype from 2112 today. None of the metals worked because they would not flex enough to allow it to be inserted into the boot. This prototype is made out of a very durable plastic. I forgot the type of plastic but 2112 can chime in here. I will be testing it to see if it works. The prototype is white but if it works, it seems as though making them in black will be no problem. The type of plastic used is supposed to be pretty much indestructable. Fingers crossed!
    Marty

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  12. #87
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    This is my message to Marty regarding the machinist's approach. Stainless is not completely out as an option, finding one that will not damage the boot or the receivers has become the real challenge, not replicating the OEM piece.

    Marty.

    They had a second stainless unit that was 60% thinner that the OEM plastic version. If you recall the equal sized unit would not bend at all. Zero.

    The thinner unit Felt flexible, but when I tried to slide it into the boot, if did not want to flex enough to prevent potential failure of the boot plastic shell.

    Mike and his Prototype machinist, John, had a feeling this might happen as I took the boot last time too. They did some research with their (aerospace) plastics supplier.

    What they found out was that the OEM piece is a kind of injection moulded plastic that is well know to fatigue and fracture. There are many, many, many superior plastics out there today. They produced a Delrin plastic prototype that is the same dimension as OEM, equal in flexiblity, but milled out of billet Delrin for us to try. Delrin will not fatigue and break like the OEM pieces.

    I want them to send it to you to try out. I think it is a better way to go, but I need you to see it first. You can trial fit it, feel it bend in your hands etc. I don't think I could break it if I tried.

    The prototype is white, and I told them it needs to be black. It should be in your hands by Wednesday.
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  13. #88
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    We all owe 2112 a huge debt of gratitude for the work he has put into this project thus far.
    Marty

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  14. #89
    Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I bet we'll need loads of other plastic parts in the next few years, so this is an invaluable lead and start.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  15. #90
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Just picked up my two sets of "boot repair kits". They are in fact both tongs and the rivets. Will post pics of them and the reproduction piece as soon as I receive it.
    Marty

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  16. #91
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    So here are the factory ones. Still waiting for the reproduction one to arrive.
     
    Marty

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  17. #92
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    I didn't really do that much. Just took it to a team that has done some problem solving for me in the past.

    The prototype will appear kind of rough, cause it is, well, a prototype.

    I did stress that the part must be beautiful in finish as well as in function. You gotta start somewhere...
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  18. #93
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Here is a tip if you are replacing one of the broken tongs. They come with new rivets to hold the tong in place, however, the rivet is very uncooperative when you put it in place and try to push down the center of the rivet to lock it in place. What you need to do is to take the new tong and very slightly enlarge the hole that the rivet goes into. By doing this, the rivet sits flush and it is fairly easy to push the center piece of the rivet down so it is flush with the head of the rivet and firmly locked in place. I did this by inserting a tool into the hole and gently pushing down on it. That was enough to do the trick.
    P.S. I don't want to hear any jokes about this. I know it sounds dirty.
    Marty

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  19. #94
    Pictures please!!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  20. #95
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Didn't take any. Use your imagination.
    Marty

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  21. #96
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Received the prototype tongs today from 2112. Very impressed. They need a bit of fine tuning but they are close to perfect. The prototypes are white but the finished product will be OEM colored. I bent the #^%}+#} out of them and they will not break. This, to me, is a permanent solution to this problem. Will post pics in the morning of the prototypes.
    Marty

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  22. #97
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Does strengthening the tab move the stress/breaking point to the pin?
    thegunguy

  23. #98
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    I don't think so. They are very flexible, more so than the OEM part but strong as hell. These will work perfectly and will never fatigue or get brittle with age as do the OEM parts.
    Marty

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  24. #99
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    Tabs -thanks Marty

    Great that the aftermarket tabs may soon be available, Marty. While mine are OK now, I can see how they can easily break.
    I tried to have my son (BMW tech) order them from Germany, but no-go. None available, as we mostly knew, and no indication of future availability.
    We'll all be eagerly awaiting your final assessment and the future parts.

    Stu
    StuM
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  25. #100
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    I bought two of the remaining 16 sets and as soon as I posted the availability of the remaining sets in Germany they all sold out that day. I highly doubt BMW will ever produce them again.
    Marty

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  26. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayvenhurstkid View Post
    I bought two of the remaining 16 sets and as soon as I posted the availability of the remaining sets in Germany they all sold out that day. I highly doubt BMW will ever produce them again.
    Or at least as a stand alone piece. They may be more inclined to sell you an entire boot?
    .
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  27. #102
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Yup. For $2,000.
    Marty

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  28. #103
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    Here is a pic of the reproduction pieces. I spoke with 2112 last night. He knows the fine tunes that are needed and then he is going to check how much per pair they will run. Planning on running off about 100 sets to start. Again, the finished product will be in the OEM black color. This plastic is Delrin; it will never fatigue or break over time.
     
    Marty

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  29. #104
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    Again - Thank You. We all appreciate your work.
    I'm STILL in for two sets (at least)..

    Gracias.

  30. #105
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    Awesome!!! I will definitely be in for 2 sets of these as well.

  31. #106
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    Sign me up

    Great work. Sign me up for my stand-by pair. Just in case!
    Stu
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  32. #107
    Team Z8 jawz's Avatar
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    Great Work! I'm still in for a pair (maybe 2).

  33. #108
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    Me too (1 set)
    Dirk

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  34. #109
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    I'm still in for 2 sets.

  35. #110
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    Still in for a set. Thanks
    2002 Silver Black/Red

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  36. #111
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    two pair for me....thanks for all the effort!

  37. #112
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    Please still count me in for two sets.

    Pandaman

  38. #113
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    We are getting closer on this project. We are in the final design stages and waiting on pricing.
    Marty

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  39. #114
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    Can someone please explain what the problem is that is being solved here. I am a new owner and have read thru this whole thread but cannot figure out what the problem is.

    Thanks in advance for the explanation.

  40. #115
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast & Lazy View Post
    Can someone please explain what the problem is that is being solved here. I am a new owner and have read thru this whole thread but cannot figure out what the problem is.

    Thanks in advance for the explanation.
    On the picture you see the convertible top boot/cover/persenning. It is used when the folding top is down. The two red rounds show the tabs. They become brittle and break and there are no OEM spare parts available anymore. Marty shows the solution in this thread.

    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  41. #116
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast & Lazy View Post
    Can someone please explain what the problem is that is being solved here. I am a new owner and have read thru this whole thread but cannot figure out what the problem is.

    Thanks in advance for the explanation.

    Remove your convert. Top cover. There are two flat connectors that hold the cover in place. They seem to be prone to breaking after some time. An independent solution is in the works, as BMW parts may not be available should yours fail. The z8 owners group is a resourceful bunch! Welcome.

  42. #117
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    Thanks. I am now "in the loop".

  43. #118
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    I stopped into my local dealership a few weeks ago to place my order. I was told all the repair kits were sold out and unknown when more would be available. I got a call this week and picked up my top boot repair kit yesterday. I don't know if this is a kit that was found and shipped or if BMW has started restocking the repair kits.

  44. #119
    Z8Mania
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    Nice!!!!!!

  45. #120
    I also was called this week about the repair kit, and picked it up yesterday at PPBMW. I'll store it away for the day when the long piece breaks.

    FYI: Here's a picture of the kit
     
    My Best,

    Ed

    2002 Z8 Jet Black//Sport Red
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  46. #121
    That odd, I ordered one from Matt along with some other stuff, and no word yet.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  47. #122
    Team Z8 jawz's Avatar
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    I ordered 2 kits on 1 Nov and they haven't shown up yet. The first time I checked, they told me they were to be "available" on the 15th. Not hearing anything, I checked last week and was told they still weren't available...who knows...? Luckily, I never put too much confidence in them showing up...still don't.

  48. #123
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    So we received the final proposal to remanufacture these in the Delrin plastic that will never break again. They would be precision cut by a CNC machine in black to match the originals in look. There would be a one time fee of $500 to program the machine and if we order in a batch of 100 to start, the cost per pair including the one time programming fee would be $139. So, we need to get a serious head count going before placing the order. Lead time is eight weeks. This price does not include shipping. If we get anywhere near 100 orders I would be more than happy to oversee everything. There would be the cost to ship everything to me and then out to each customer so probably something on the order of $150 per pair once everything is figured in. So, let's get going. I would buy two pair.
    Marty

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  49. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayvenhurstkid View Post
    So we received the final proposal to remanufacture these in the Delrin plastic that will never break again......I would buy two pair.
    Why would anyone need any more than 1 pair??? As a spare for someone that didn't get in on this???

    Anyway, I would buy 1 pair.

    Richard

  50. #125
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    I received my replacement, spares if ever needed, from BMW 2 weeks ago and the cost was about $26.00

  51. #126
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    It is a rather expensive solution....but it is better than having nothing.
    Ton
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  52. #127
    Copy/paste and add your handle & amount for quick reference...

    Fast & Lazy x1
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    Andrew Macpherson

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  53. #128
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    Andrew,

    I have a OEM replacement
    Copy/paste and add your handle & amount for quick reference...

    Fast & Lazy x1
    macfly x1
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  54. #129
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    I'm still want two pair. One set for my existing Z8 and one pair for my next one. Just let me know where to send $$$. Thank you for all your leg work on this project.
    Dennis
    Pandaman

  55. #130
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  56. #131
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    Guys, Marty is doing this at cost only. I have done this type of project for a boat forum and the Ford GT forum. Some time little incidentals come up that can bump the price a bit and it can take a fair amount of work to get everything out to everyone.

    Couple suggestions.

    Prepay for those of us who are serious
    100 pairs is the minimum. If we exceed that, then the price drops. But if people miss the first order it could be more expensive. I think round one should be $175 plus shipping, Round two $250 or something like that. If there is something left over, it stays with the organizer as a thank you.

    Though this is not cheap, these should never break. If the factory never resells the repair kit, then you are forced to buy an entire boot for a whole lot more.
    .
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  57. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2112 View Post
    Fast & Lazy x1
    macfly x1
    Pandaman x2
    Z8Mania x2
    2112 x1

    Guys, Marty is doing this at cost only. I have done this type of project for a boat forum and the Ford GT forum. Some time little incidentals come up that can bump the price a bit and it can take a fair amount of work to get everything out to everyone.

    Couple suggestions.

    Prepay for those of us who are serious
    100 pairs is the minimum. If we exceed that, then the price drops. But if people miss the first order it could be more expensive. I think round one should be $175 plus shipping, Round two $250 or something like that. If there is something left over, it stays with the organizer as a thank you.

    Though this is not cheap, these should never break. If the factory never resells the repair kit, then you are forced to buy an entire boot for a whole lot more.
    .
    So....injecting some reality here....if I was to purchase 4 kits from BMW for ~$100, this would last me a "lifetime", the car and accessories would still remain "original", and life would be good.

    $150 seemed a bit high, now we are at $175.....what is the real number I am signing up for?

    We are not talking about breaking the bank.....just trade-offs. It is clear that there has been a lot of effort put into this after-market replacement and it is appreciated.

    Am I to understand, as I recall from reading earlier posts (and I did not take the time to re-read - sorry) that in the process of installing the BMW kits there is a chance that the plastic tabs will break? or was that one of the prototype replacements? This plays into the "trade-off" category so I am very interested in the answer.

    Thanks for humoring me.

    Fast & Lazy (Richard)

  58. #133
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    Wow. This is really going to happen!
    Thank you. This has got to be sooo much work. Just thinking about the logistics is daunting!

    I'm still in for two sets. Good for any price on either side of $200.00.
    That's cheap for peace of mind.

    I'll prepay. Tell me when and how.
    Thank you again. Very appreciated.


  59. #134
    Z8 Madness 2112's Avatar
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    I think it is more about whether the replacement kits are truly available. Also, if BMW made theirs with a CNC out of an expensive, but virtually unbreakable Delrin, I think it would be closer to this figure even if they did a production run of a much higher magnitude.

    The ball is in Marty's court. I just injected some of my own experience from other group buys That I organized and found to have come up on the short end of the stick.
    .
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  60. #135
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    Copy/paste and add your handle & amount for quick reference...
    Fast & Lazy x1
    macfly x1
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    Z8Mania x2
    2112 x1
    hlmiii x2

  61. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2112 View Post
    I think it is more about whether the replacement kits are truly available. Also, if BMW made theirs with a CNC out of an expensive, but virtually unbreakable Delrin....
    Thanks. Makes sense. My name will stay on the list.

    Fast & Lazy

  62. #137
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  63. #138
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I got 2 kits from BMW a few months back before the rush. Not sure I'll need the new CNC parts, but put me down as a "maybe" if needed to get the group to the target.
    thegunguy

  64. #139
    Z8 Millennial Monster hayvenhurstkid's Avatar
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    So with my order for two pair, there are now twelve confirmed orders with is not enough for me to give the go ahead to the company to make the initial run of 100 pairs. Not sure how to get the word out there on an international basis, but I would think there would be enough people interested. I want to help, but I am not going to front over $13,000 for the order. So, let's just keep the headcount going. So close, yet so far. If we don't do this I think one day the Z8 community will regret not doing it. If we get up to about 75 orders, I will front the money for the balance of the order.
    Marty

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  65. #140
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  66. #141
    Marty, I'm in!!! -- was in all the time -- just lost track of this post. Put me down for one set.
    C.A. Cardenas (AKA Dan)2003 (last one?) Z8 - Hellrot / Sport Rot Original Owner - Munich Tourist Delivery-- Others --1988 M6 - 32K mi. - Original Owner1989 DINAN 750iL - 73K mi. - Original Owner1998 M3 - 63K mi. - Original Owner2015 X5 (F15) Diesel - Daily Driver2008 Porsche Turbo Cab - 9K mi. (Mezger motor/6-sp. manual)

  67. #142
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    You shouldnt have to front that kind of money Marty. If the group gets to your limit of 75 lets discuss.

  68. #143
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    I think we can order less than a 100 pairs, it will push the cost up per unit (I have no idea how much), but we started the discussion as 100 so it just got started there.

    .
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  69. #144
    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    278
    Put me in for one pair
    2002 Silver Black/Red

    Dinan stage 4 software
    Dinan low restriction carbon fiber airboxes
    Dinan high flow air mass meters
    Hamann headers
    Supersprint exhaust
    performance package
    custom short shift linkage
    cdv modifacation
    Quaiffe differential/military grade gear polishing
    19 inch 3 piece HRE mags/Toyo tires
    Custom crossdrilled/slotted rotors
    ceramic brake pads
    stainless brake lines
    Dinan caster plates
    Dinan duel mass flywheel
    custom Sachs clutch /pressure plate
    Dinan pedal set

  70. #145
    DSC Off
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    72
    Add 2 pair for me please...

    Tom
    Z8LVR

  71. #146
    The Other Red ZAchterbahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    170
    3 pair for me.
    ZAchterbahn
    2001 Z8

  72. #147
    Z8 Novice
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    16
    I am still in for 2 pair. I''ll prepay if needed

    The CE

  73. #148
    Z8 Novice Zzzz8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    19
    I'm in for a pair as well.

    Frank Falbey
    Frank Falbey
    62069 - Red // Crema

  74. #149
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    322
    Fast & Lazy x1
    macfly x1
    Pandaman x2
    Z8Mania x2
    2112 x1
    hlmiii x2
    jawz x1
    Tyler x1
    M Blitz x1
    JoshB x1
    Z8LVR x 2
    ZAchterbahn x3
    The CE x2
    Zzzz8 x1
    DirkZ8 x1

    Total - 22
    Dirk

    Alpina #142
    www.bmwccca.com

  75. #150
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    2,490
    Fast & Lazy x1
    macfly x1
    Pandaman x2
    Z8Mania x2
    2112 x1
    hlmiii x2
    jawz x1
    Tyler x1
    M Blitz x1
    JoshB x1
    Z8LVR x 2
    ZAchterbahn x3
    The CE x2
    Zzzz8 x1
    DirkZ8 x1
    NorCal x1

    Total - 23

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