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Thread: Frame Issue Statement from BMW AG, February 14th 2006

  1. #1
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Juergen Wunderlich's Avatar
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    Frame Issue Statement from BMW AG, February 14th 2006

    Dear BMW Z8 Club e.V. members,
    Dear BMW Z8 owners,

    This is the latest statement from BMW AG on the frame issue. I received it today via email. Please note, this is not a translation made by the BMW Z8 Club e.V. but comes directly from the BMW Group!

    In the next few days we will realease the results of our survey.

    I am rather dissapointed with this statement from BMW but we will follow our schedule.
    Best Regards,

    Jürgen

  2. #2
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Unhappy As expected...

    Their responses have been about spot on to what I expected. 1. We have no knowledge of any deformation that impairs safety. 2. Our extensive testing showed no damage under using the vehicle within its specified use.

    1. Does the incidence of damage differ from that of steel framed vehicles with the same market/customer segment?
    2. What rate of damage is acceptable? By this I understand that representative damage could occur by dropping the vehicle for several feet, but should the damage occur under light use? I guess this is the goal of the Club survey ? to determine under what types of use the damage is most prevalent.

    I?m interested to see if the survey does point to damage that can result from normal driving ? not ?accident-like situations? or ?driving over obstacles at inappropriately high speeds?.

    BTW ? what is an inappropriate speed? It's a good thing they marketed the Z8 is the premier vehicle for cruising at 15 MPH on glass smooth surfaces.
    thegunguy

  3. #3
    Z8 Madness
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    Unhappy The response does not fit the data ...

    More than ever, I am interested in the result of the Z8 Club's independent testing.

    Thanks to the Z8 club for keeping to the schedule. My faith is with you.
    2016 Porsche GTS/MT

  4. #4
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    "Bummer"

    BMW's response exhibited absolutely no interest or intent to further investigate the frame distortion issue---that is the biggest message I get out of it. READ: Get an alignment check, if it can be adjusted within tolerance OK and shutup, if not, the customer must have done something "inappropriate" like driving one of the premier sports cars in the world, with the stiffest frame of any convertible ever made, at anything above moderate speed and less than perfect roads (anything else is defined a "borderline accident), and the owner "must" be at fault. Their reply is a complete joke (on us). As expected, they are in full lawyer mode, trying to "frame the issue" to absolve themselves of any liability. sorry for all the puns, but it beats crying!

  5. #5
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Very disappointing. Don't know what else to say. Very disappointing.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  6. #6
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Heir Wunderlich

    Can you please restate the Club's plan and schedule for us all. With all of the discussion over the past few days, I'm lost as to what your plan entails.

    Thanks
    thegunguy

  7. #7
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Juergen Wunderlich's Avatar
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    Dear Mr. Hughes,

    The discussion over the past few days and the latest statement from BMW did NOT change, our schedule and our opinion which is stil written in our letter on top of this thread. Here is some further information:

    We have now finished our poll and 121 Z8 owners including you, have submitted reports describing the condition of their cars. Sorry for not being able to confirm every single report so far.

    In 33% of all cases a damage has been recordet BUT after a first selection the percentage of damaged cars is 19% and these 19% are still not verified so far! The reasons for the first selection were that some cars had a real bad traffic-accident and not a frame design flaw problem. Other cars for example had replaced fenders or a repaint hood as a result of scratches or dents and therefore the gaps are not equal. There was also not a design flaw problem for narrowing gaps and there was no distortion of the shock towers reported.

    Please don't get me wrong, I don't want to downplay the problem but we have to do more than an educated guess. In my opinion as a master craftsman in stonemasonry, sculptor and engeneer in stone, I always have to deal with problems and I think we have to deal with crystal clear facts in an analytic way. Every single damaged car is one too many but we should be able to prove every statement about a design flaw or something else! So maybe the discussion about a law suit does currently not support the goal to get a solution.

    As mentioned on our schedule we will try to examine every single car with a reported damage and therefore we will contact all owners of these cars the next days.
    Best Regards,

    Jürgen

  8. #8
    Z8 Novice
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    Thumbs down warping of towers?

    I just went to sadly sell my Z8 and out of the blue i get my first notice of the possible problem. The consignment guy told me that no less than three Z8 owners "dropped by" to tell him about the problem. He said to me on the phone that he took a T-square to the shock towers and could tell they weren't square and were warped.

    Sounded like rubbish. I went and got my car home.

    I read all this and see there MAY be issues, but a T-square...What Z8 owner is driving around taking time to go T-square other guys cars? Anyhow this fellow claims that "BMW is dragging its feet on the $40,000 fix" and that I should sell now to not have to deal with it. Obviously the car is now in my barn, but what is the real scoop as to 1-did BMW right a letter or just the email to date? 2-where can I find the specs to have my car tested to tolerance on and lastly if the car were a 2000 with 5800 gentle miles only(kinda) what's the likelihood? Does anyone know?
    Kdog

  9. #9

    I believe that the letter from BMW AG....

    is simply clearing the path for the release of a 'Suspension Performance Upgrade Kit' while stating very clearly that there is no structural or safety problem with the car.

    I understand why BMW would need to make such a clear and blunt statement about the frame issue, and also make it with no connection or mention of the 'Suspension Performance Upgrade Kit'.

    I feel very certain we are simply steeping through a necessary procedure, and everything that I heard at the Villa D'Este leads me to believe that this is what is happening now. The one thing that I really took away from the Villa D'Este was Andrea's continued insistence that we trust BMW, and strange though it may seem this is what I think we all should do now.

    Let us let a little time pass, and wait to see if we have a round of news about the 'Suspension Performance Upgrade Kit'.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  10. #10

    kdog, in more direct response...

    if you are selling your car then I really wouldn't worry about this, just find someone who will trade, sell or consign it without giving you any problems. The miles covered bear no relation to the possible damage, and everything you could possibly need to know about the issue is written in this forum.

    Good luck selling your car.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  11. #11
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I second Andrew's comment...

    ...concerning BMW's procedures. As I stated in another thread, BMW is super passionate about the Z8, and it was very obvious that the BMW employees attending the event were disappointed that the announcement was not ready. From various conversations, like Andrew, I inferred that BMW has regimented procedures for everything that they do, and these procedures can temporarily slow items like the announcement - no news to anyone involved in a large multi-national company.

    As you will note, all of us who were at the event are very upbeat, and even Andrew is "in love again". Read between the lines...I believe our patience will be rewarded
    thegunguy