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Thread: Z8's Oil is Castrol TWS 10-60

  1. #1

    Exclamation Z8's Oil is Castrol TWS 10-60

    BMW Z8 Club recommendation on CASTROL TWS 10W-60

    In Europe several Z8 owners have had an engine failure because of both cooling problems AND problems because the wrong oil and additives were used.
    You can easily see the difference in using BMW recommended oil on the attached picture of the VANOS units which ran about 60.000 miles. The unit on top got only CASTROL TWS 10W-60, which has a special recommendation from BMW AG, the unit below ran with BMW 5-30 oil.

    At a BMW Z8 Club event in Munich the gentleman who designed the motor at BMW told the Club directly he would only recommend to use the CASTROL TWS 10W-60 in our motor.

    There has been some confusion about this because BMW NA issued oil recommendations for the thinner oil 5-30 oil when the car was released. All these early 'official' BMW NA notices are should be disregarded, Castrol TWS 10-60 is the ONLY oil to put into our cars.

    http://www.bmwz8.us/pdf/Z8Club_Oil_TWS.pdf

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    Andrew Macpherson

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  2. #2
    Sport Button On - DSC Off gutMD's Avatar
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    Thanks Andrew.
    I now consider the discussion to be closed. Finally.
    ---------------------------------
    Regards,
    Gary
    2002 Topaz // Crema

  3. #3
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    I agree as I use the Castrol TWS 10W-60 too but interesting question is... why have both the engine that used the TWS 10W-60 and the one that used Castrol 5W-30 been taken apart? I can not imagine doing that for just comparison purposes? I am curious why both were taken apart as the oil issue seems to be secondary as to what is actually being repaired (answer probably best for a separate thread though).
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  4. #4
    Nowack of Germany is the tuner who takes the S62 to 550hp by rebuilding and rebalancing the entire motor, so this was no doubt a motor that was apart for tuning. Dieter has one of his fully tuned motors in his car which he let me do a quick freeway blast in when we were at the Villa D'Este. I can report that the motor is really a charm, it spins up to 8,000rpm and is completely smooth and linear. Dieter has put many thousands of miles on it doing long distance tours and countless laps of the 'ring, proving that Nowack's work is totally reliable, and all on Castrol TWS 10W-60
    Andrew Macpherson

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  5. #5
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    I use the 10 - 60 oil and that is what the BMW dealership put in my car last spring. The question I have is that I have a big yellow sticker on the fan housing that states I should be using 10 - 30 w. Why the change?
    Zed0037

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  6. #6
    The engine was always meant to run on the Castrol TWS 10-60W according to the man who designed it. Some of the Z8 Club guys met with him at one of their events in Germany, and he confirmed that the TWS was the only oil to use.

    Maybe BMW NA wanted to use the 10-30 is because of the free 4 years of servicing the offered - it is way cheaper to use the 10-30, and gives slightly better mileage?
    Andrew Macpherson

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  7. #7
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    TWS 10w-60 is no longer available in Europe
    It is replaced by castrol edge 10W-60 especially for BMW M engines.
    Z8Ros
    The Netherlands

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    Sport Button On - DSC Off Juergen Wunderlich's Avatar
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    Dear Evert-Jan,

    My information is totally different. The Castrol EDGE is different to the Castrol TWS and the TWS is still available at BMW dealerships in Europe. I purchased a box with 12 liters last week at my local dealer in Germany!
    Best Regards,

    Jürgen

  9. #9
    Sport Button On - DSC Off jpklecker's Avatar
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    I just had my 2002 Z8 serviced by the dealer in Scottsdale AZ and found out they put 5W-30 oil in the car. Is there an offical document from BMW that specifically states that Castrol 10W-60 should be used? If so where can I get a copy of this to force the dealer to put the preferred oil in my car?
    John Klecker - 2002 Topaz / Crema (61782)

  10. #10
    Z8 Addict Scott Pettit's Avatar
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    A service bulletin was issued some time back that the M5 engine is to use 60 wt. If your dealer used 5-30, they may have had a temperature reason for doing so but I would contact BMW NA to be sure.

    Scott
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  11. #11
    Sport Button On - DSC Off jpklecker's Avatar
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    Thanks! Any idea if it is possible to get a copy of that service bulletin?
    John Klecker - 2002 Topaz / Crema (61782)

  12. #12
    You might not find it as a BMW AG or NA bulletin, once cars are out of production they don't update their data-banks. This oil information was released by the Z8 Club after the end of run, as shown above.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  13. #13
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    This is the big discussion that we got into last year. The Longlife-01 or LL 01 (as noted in the original post), actually specifies the use of 10w60 exclusively up to 02/2000. However, after that date 0w30, 0w40, 5w30, or 5w40 are approved (likely dependent upon region/temp). I have yet to ever see a TSB, etc that recommends 10w60 after 02/2000.

    That being said, reports from the Z8 Club's technical contacts (including the lead engineer involved in the development of the S62) and several highly experienced S62 shops all state that 10w60 should be used regardless of production date, largely due to the design of the VANOS.

    It is my personal opinion that the switch in 02/2000 was largely due to 1) cost cutting measure of the BMW "free" maintenance under the warranty period and 2) to address concerns form the "average" customer at the time where 10w60 was consumed by the engine over time (which is normal for the S62). As such exclusive use of 10w60 was substituted with cheaper weights that reduced consumption.

    Due to the recommendation of the Z8 Club and that of respected European tuners, I will put nothing but Castrol TWS 10w60 in my car.

    As all the cars are out of the standard warranty, you should be able to request 10w60 at your service center. If they won't accommodate your request, especially since you're the on paying for the oil, perhaps you should seek a new service center.

    Also, if you want to do further research, you can easily find the bulletin via Google.

    FYI - TWS is also still available in the US. However, unlike the photo in the OP, the bottle is gold (still 1L).
    thegunguy

  14. #14
    Sport Button On - DSC Off jpklecker's Avatar
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    Thanks Andrew and thegunguy... I have searched and found a copy of the TSB regarding the type of oil for up to 03/2000 for the Z8. It indicates the oil they used on my car as well as the Castrol for the S62 engine from 03/2000 on. I will talk to my dealer regarding the oil--with this as support for what I want used in my car.
    John Klecker - 2002 Topaz / Crema (61782)

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    I hate to aggravate this discussion but I just spoke with my service guy who was doing my annual low mileage oil service and had his manager do some research on this matter. He found that BMW is officially recommending the 5-30 oil for cars after March, 2000. So, I called another dealer and got the same answer. By the way, he offered to drain the oil and fill with the Castrol but now I am not sure. Is this issue mostly obsessive??

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    Bob Adler

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    When we were in Munich for the 10th anniversary of the car we got to talk to the designer of the S62 engine. I can't remember his name but I remember the conversation very clearly and he was quick to state that he recommended Castrol TWS 10-60. That is good enough for me. Erik

  17. #17
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Bob,

    You MUST insist on 10w60. In addition to lubrication, it provides pneumatic actuation of much of the VANOS system. The 5w30 recommendation came form BMW NA, not AG. It's hard to know why, but I suspect the reason was the cost of maintaining the cars under warranty back during the service period and the fact that many engines do consume some 10w60 normally, resulting in customer concerns. When it comes down to it, the people that created the engine, of whom several of us have met in person, including much coordination with the Z8 Club in Germany, state that Castrol TWS 10w60 is the ONLY oil to use to ensure maximum performance, reliability, and long life from the S62 engine.

    One good test is whether or not the service center has to look up the specification. Service centers that do a lot of Z8 work will quote 10w60 immediately.
    thegunguy

  18. #18
    Z8Mania
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    Everything Rifle says above is correct. The 10W60 TWS Motorsport has a lot of extra goodies, its not just the thicker viscosity. Originally it cost over 24 per quart here in The States. Some owners, probably more M5 owners because they had their cars earlier and in greater numbers, complained and all of a sudden 5w30 became acceptable....

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    Mr. Gun

    Thanks for the clear response. I spoke with the service manager and he is more than happy to change my oil to the Castrol. It's too bad BMW can't be consistent on this issue but then we just have to look at how they stalled on the frame issue.

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    Bob Adler

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    There is some interesting discussion and possibly evidence on this thread to support the use of the Castrol TWS 10W-60 in our M-developed S62 engine:

    http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=295656

  21. #21
    Great info, thanks for sharing the link!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  22. #22
    Z8 Addict Z8doc's Avatar
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    Post Wow.....

    That thread is PACKED with a ridiculous amount of information!! That will take me as much time digesting that information as it took MACFLY to edit all of his Oregon 2010 pictures !!
    Best Regards,

    Jeff
    61995 Silver /// Rot - Original Owner
    Z8 Club of Germany e.V. #102

  23. #23
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8doc View Post
    That thread is PACKED with a ridiculous amount of information!! That will take me as much time digesting that information as it took MACFLY to edit all of his Oregon 2010 pictures !!
    Let me paraphrase the entire thread: Use TWS 10-60
    2003 Z8 Black/Red

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    Iam going to change the oil on my wifes Z8. Iam going to buy Castrol TWS online. What amount should be added with a filter change.? note: car and books are up on a lift right now..too lazy to go check. Kevin

  25. #25
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcbmwgirl View Post
    Iam going to change the oil on my wifes Z8. Iam going to buy Castrol TWS online. What amount should be added with a filter change.? note: car and books are up on a lift right now..too lazy to go check. Kevin
    7.5L

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    My local dealer said that 10-60 is for cars produced before March 2000 and that 5-30 is for all cars after that production date. That is according to their BMW documentation. The cars produced after March 2000 can use either or, but according to their BMW manuals the correct oil if 5-30 for everything after March 2000, so you have to ask for 10-60 or isn't it prudent to use the oil the car is used to at that point?
    Zed0037

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  27. #27
    Z8Mania
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    This is partially correct. What happened is the early M5s also required 10w60. People complained that it was so expensive- I think it was like $24/ quart of oil. So they modified the motor to work with 5w30 but in truth the 10w60 is a far superior oil, not just the weighting, because if it was just the weight, the 5w30 would probably be ok for most people who are not punishing the car and also if you live in a cooler environment, but the 10w60 has a lot of extra additives that make it do its job a lot better, one of the reasons for its being more expensive. I think if you are keeping this car long term, you should always insist on Castrol TWS 10W60 motorsport oil. My shop accidentally put in 5w30 and I made them drain it and refill it with 10w60.

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    Sounds good, putting info from different dealerships, it is hard to get the raw facts. I agree, I only use 10w60 and they put 5w30 in the car and I had them drain it out and put the 10w60 in it. The 7.5 quarts costs $52 bucks, so it looks like the $24 a quart has come way down.
    Zed0037

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  29. #29
    Z8Mania
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    Yeah- I remember when I took my early build 2000 M5 in for an oil change and it was something nuts- I think the motor took more than 7.5 quarts- no matter it was like $200 and I said: WHOA! and my service advisor said that oil is basically the ///M of motor oil. But I did it because I wanted to do the right thing.

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    I bought the Castrol TWS10-60 at Bavarian Auto. I see they have it listed for $12.95 a litre. That beats the dealer price up here in Canada by quite a few dollars.

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    beating the oil issue to death

    Hi all;

    I have read all of the oil posts and was convinced I need to switch to 10w-60. I took the car to BMW of Towson and had it looked after by the technician who does all the z8's and all the M cars for them. He has been with BMW for 30 years. He recommended sticking with the 5w-30 especially for low mileage/short drive cars in cold climates. He said the thicker oil generates too much pressure and is too thick during repeated cold starts and can push past engine seals creating leaks.

    Does that make sense to anyone?

  32. #32
    The guy who designed the S62 motor is the one who told the then President of the Z8 Club in Germany that it was built around the specs of TWS 1-60. I'd say the guy who designed and built the engine should know best. Besides that it's way cold in Germany!
    Andrew Macpherson

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    that pretty much says it all doesn't it? Has anyone using 10w-60 with their low mileage car experienced any problems (leaks, etc.)?

  34. #34
    None we've had discussed here, the motors have been pretty much the least troublesome part of the Z8 experience.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  35. #35
    Z8 Madness 2112's Avatar
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    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhunger View Post
    Hi all;

    I have read all of the oil posts and was convinced I need to switch to 10w-60. I took the car to BMW of Towson and had it looked after by the technician who does all the z8's and all the M cars for them. He has been with BMW for 30 years. He recommended sticking with the 5w-30 especially for low mileage/short drive cars in cold climates. He said the thicker oil generates too much pressure and is too thick during repeated cold starts and can push past engine seals creating leaks.

    Does that make sense to anyone?
    Quote Originally Posted by 2112 View Post

    the tech is surprisingly not incorrect in the cold start and cold weather operating suggestion, but the 5W30 suggestion might be too thin

    here's a thread where an M5 owner installed a pressure gauge and reported his findings with different viscosities

    http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...e-install.html

    10W60 is definitely one of the better 60 weight oils when it comes to cold starts, but if you're like me and have to crank the engine cold when the oil is at <10C you probably don't want to do that everyday with TWS

    i've personally used 0W40, 5W50, & TWS and UOAs show little difference between the oils, it really does have to do more with how many miles you do at operating temp vs. warm up temp & how many city vs. highway miles

    51,806 = TWS
    53,779 = TWS
    56,630 = TWS
    58,475 = M1 0W40
    61,874 = TWS
    62,774 = TWS
    64,897 = 50:50 MIX (M1 0W40 & 62,774-TWS)
    66,790 = M1 5W50
    *69,624 TWS that was subject to very short daily commutes and 7C - 15C cold starts
    based on the UOA only thing to report is that the BMW-M TWS offered by ECS tuning is a NEW formulation with more titanium and molybdenum


    *edit: do to recent development on a rod bearing issue, i need to point out that this type of UOA is better suited at determining the condition of the Oil not the wear on the engine.*
         

  37. #37
    Z8Mania
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    I bet the M1 5W50 gives you a better spread for cranking in cold climates and then running at higher sustained engine temps.

    However, the motor was designed for 10W60 and thats what Ill stick with. I think the tech in this case got confused with all the back and forth from BMW NA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8Mania View Post
    I bet the M1 5W50 gives you a better spread for cranking in cold climates and then running at higher sustained engine temps.

    However, the motor was designed for 10W60 and thats what Ill stick with. I think the tech in this case got confused with all the back and forth from BMW NA.
    never do i look to defend a tech, but i think he was just applying basic car knowledge/practices - you'll find the same recommendation in the <2000 manuals before the switch to 5W30 in 2001.

    the problem being that 5W30 is the only other gas oil BMW sells at the dealers in the US, so the tech recommended a BMW oil (in europe you can now get 0w30, 5w30, and 0W40 for gas engines)

    i've attached the owners manual for reference, not trying to convince anyone to not use TWS (i obviously used it myself) but it's not like the S62 has somehow transcended basic oil practices - the picture sent from the engineers to me just looks like sludge build up which is not surprising for BMW 5W30

  39. #39
    Z8Mania
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    Right- but my buddy who is a total gear head, seemingly like you as well, swore to me that the TWS has a lot of additives and goodies that the 5w30 lacks- and actually now that we discuss it, I recall him telling me maybe the 5w30 if you were starting the motor in really cold environments- but - wont most Z8s be in somewhat toasty garages? How frequently will Z8s be started in truly cold temps? I can see it with the M5- some people would leave those out doors (blasphemy!!)

  40. #40
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    $52 is a great price. The best price I have found is $12.95 a liter at ECS Tuning. My M3 S65 engine also takes only TWS 10W60.

    http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Castrol/ES2580488/
    Richard Armstrong
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by briandilley View Post
    Sounds good, putting info from different dealerships, it is hard to get the raw facts. I agree, I only use 10w60 and they put 5w30 in the car and I had them drain it out and put the 10w60 in it. The 7.5 quarts costs $52 bucks, so it looks like the $24 a quart has come way down.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlpinaOkie View Post
    $52 is a great price. The best price I have found is $12.95 a liter at ECS Tuning. My M3 S65 engine also takes only TWS 10W60.

    http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Castrol/ES2580488/
    $52 is certainly a mistake or the difference between the 5W30 and the TWS if they where honest and ate the cost of the 5W30 they put in

    *ECS tuning has both formulas of Castrol 10W60:

    Castrol Professional 10W60 TWS BMW-M
    &
    Castrol Professional 10W60 TWS non-BMW

    • *someone has confirmed BMWNA now sells Castrol TWS professional at the dealer JAN/20/12


    the non-professional vs. professional bottles
    are easily distinguishable by the
    holographic vs. non holographic labels

    *note Professional is not just a name change but also a different formula - see post #36



    Quote Originally Posted by Z8Mania View Post
    Right- but my buddy who is a total gear head, seemingly like you as well, swore to me that the TWS has a lot of additives and goodies that the 5w30 lacks- and actually now that we discuss it, I recall him telling me maybe the 5w30 if you were starting the motor in really cold environments- but - wont most Z8s be in somewhat toasty garages? How frequently will Z8s be started in truly cold temps? I can see it with the M5- some people would leave those out doors (blasphemy!!)
    looks like your buddy now has me on a technicality since there is a new additives package in Castrol Professional, Blackstone was under the impression I used an additives package in my oil due to the increased Ti & Mo.

    http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...18#Post2389518

  42. #42
    DSC Off Gammaman's Avatar
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    Just had oil changed at the dealer, he said don't worry, we'll use the TWS 10-60, but ended up using 10-30 At least with the amount of driving I do (13K in almost 12 years), it probably won't hurt until the next oil change.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gammaman View Post
    Just had oil changed at the dealer, he said don't worry, we'll use the TWS 10-60, but ended up using 10-30 At least with the amount of driving I do (13K in almost 12 years), it probably won't hurt until the next oil change.
    don't remember a 10W30 being sold in the US
    also did they charge you for TWS or for the 10W30?

  44. #44
    DSC Off Gammaman's Avatar
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    $8.80 per quart so probably the standard BMW synthetic.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gammaman View Post
    $8.80 per quart so probably the standard BMW synthetic.
    are you in the US or Canada/Europe?

    US Oils are as follows:

    BMW 5W30

    BMW 15W40

    Castrol TWS

    Castrol 5W30 (Golden U.S. Bottles)


    chances are you could've gotten one or the other and they just mistyped the Oil in the order

  46. #46
    That's super annoying, personally I'd have them change it, and watch them do it too to be sure I have the right oil!
    Andrew Macpherson

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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnAnthony View Post
    are you in the US or Canada/Europe?

    US Oils are as follows:

    BMW 5W30

    BMW 15W40

    Castrol TWS

    Castrol 5W30 (Golden U.S. Bottles)


    chances are you could've gotten one or the other and they just mistyped the Oil in the order
    I'm in the USA. For that price I don't see how it could have been TWS.

  48. #48
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    I have the old girl in for a big service today and my mechanic researched this issue extensively and came up with the castrol tws 10-60. Its confusing and the sticker on the motor says 5-30, which is what I have been using. I hopped on the shop computer and found this lengthy discussion. Bottom line, castrol tws 10-60 it is and thanks Andrew for being here and taking care of us all so thoroughly!

  49. #49
    Z8Mania
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    Yes it must be TWS Motorsport 10W60. My dealer goofed also and I made them change the oil back to 10W60.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    That's super annoying, personally I'd have them change it, and watch them do it too to be sure I have the right oil!
    If BMW AG or USA never officially changed the recommendation, how can I get them to change it? I'd be willing to pay the difference in the cost of the oil, but not the full boat i.e. full price of TWS + labor.

  51. #51
    Did you specify that was the oil you wanted?
    Andrew Macpherson

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  52. #52
    Z8Mania
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    I believe there was a flier from BMW NA a while ago that did clarify the TWS 10W60 should be used....

    When this happened my dealer did the swap of the oils at no additional cost because it was their mistake, but if your dealer doesnt want to do it, I would pay the cost and get it done because it is a superior oil and its cheap insurance. What would a new motor cost? (The odds of the motor failing are low but it makes the point).

  53. #53
    DSC Off Gammaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    Did you specify that was the oil you wanted?
    I had a falling out with my dealer after 17 yrs (!), so I took it to where I had recently purchased my wife's X5 Diesel (great car, by the way, as she racks up about 30k mi per year. So the new dealer (service advisor), said no problem, we,ll put in the correct oil. I did say it needs Castrol TWS 10-60, but I don't think he was really listening, it was like ya dah yah yahda, we'll do whatever is specified, so he obviously had no input. I'm sure if I bring it up to the service advisor he will profess complete ignorance. What do you think?

  54. #54
    Z8Mania
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    That's too bad on the prior dealer. I think you should discuss it with the service person and see how they treat you. That will let you know what kind of person you're dealing with.

  55. #55
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    The confusion at the dealer may be because the Z8 is not an M car (so it should have the 5-30), but it does have the S62 motor (which needs the 10-60).

  56. #56
    DSC Off Gammaman's Avatar
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    Just spoke to the service adviser. He remembered our conversation and was very apologetic, said he had reviewed it with the technician. At any rate, he's replacing the oil and only charging the net difference in the price of the oil, no labor. Wagner BMW in Shrewsbury, MA if any of you around Boston are interested. bmwusa.com by the way does indeed specify 10W-60 for M motors:
    http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx

  57. #57
    Registered User Rich's Avatar
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    Does anyone know which oil is recommended for the Alpina engines?
    Rich

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    2006 Ferrari F430 Spyder
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    2011 Mercedes CLS 550

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Does anyone know which oil is recommended for the Alpina engines?
    since you have the Alpina 4.8L instead of the S62 your car probably takes 30 or 40 weight oil

    if you're in the EU
    you can go to dealer or big name brands
    Mobil 1
    Castrol
    Liqui Moly
    etc

    if you're in the US
    -you might want to stay away from BMW-labelled bottles
    Mobil 1 0W40 (i read it uses a lot of Group III oil vs better Synth oil)
    Castrol 0W30 (supposed to be a true synthetic with Group IV or better)
    Lubro Moly 30 or 40 weight (I don't think they bottle in the US so anything 0WXX is your best bet)

    if you needs sources for oils i'd be happy to put up all the ones i know & have used

  59. #59
    DSC Off Gammaman's Avatar
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    So I returned to the dealer to get the oil replaced with 10-60, and the adviser shows me a technical service bulletin from May, 2013 (which I've attached), stating ALL Z8s should only use 10-30, in direct contradistinction to what is posted on bmwusa.com. At any rate, he was very nice and put in the 10-60 no charge He said he would check with BMW to get a clarification.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gammaman View Post
    So I returned to the dealer to get the oil replaced with 10-60, and the adviser shows me a technical service bulletin from May, 2013 (which I've attached), stating ALL Z8s should only use 10-30, in direct contradistinction to what is posted on bmwusa.com. At ant rate, he was very nice and put in the 10-60 no charge He said he would check with BMW to get a clarification.
    you made a typo, the Bulletin says 5W30 not 10W30

    that document looks familiar (likely a reprint imo)

    Old TIS/Bulletin for reference
    http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...ml#post2211329

    Gammaman that bulletin make only 2 points as to the use of TWS or 5W30

    1. For Cars produced prior to 03/00 it suggest engine damage can result if you don't use TWS
    2. For Cars produced after 03/00 it list the Piston Ring Redesign as the sole reason for a switch to 5W30

    Because the only difference between the pre&post 03/00 cars is the piston ring redesign (cylinder wall tolerance more than a redesign) I'm not sure what damage may result...
    ...carbon build up
    ...maybe the pre-03/00 are harsher on the oil causing it to drop to a 20 weight and thus affecting lubrication

    my conclusion:
    that bulletin reads exactly like the one from 2000 that started the whole 5W30 debacle, the piston rings in post 03/00 car allowed for better oil consumption so BMW marketing & accounting departments switched to the thinner-cheaper-easier to find 5W30

    as always, I agree TWS was the oil better suited for the S62 given you are flying down the autobahn, tearing up mountain roads, doing a lap around the nurburgring and picking up the kids from school, but using a thinner oil to suit your environment or just a different 50 or 60 weight won't make or break your Z8... especially if you can or can't do any of the above

  61. #61
    Z8Mania
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    John,
    You are more knowledgable than I on this matter; but one of our members who doesnt post often here, Greasemonkey, once told me that the 10W60 is so superior not just due to different viscosity (where perhaps the 5 weighting is better for cold starts) but because there are all these additives that are better for the motor in the TWS motor oil. He strongly urged me to use it. In discussing the old controversy (pardon me if my memory is a little fuzzy) he seemed to think BMW simply made it possible to use the 5w30 because some customers complained about the relatively high price of 10W60 TWS as compared with the 5W30- so it was really something generated out of a marketing concern. I don't care if you have an economy car or the most exotic, I think its best to use the right materials/ fluids and in this case as far as I can tell, for the Z8 that's the 10W60 TWS.

  62. #62
    Team Z8 riverflyer's Avatar
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    Jerry, good memoryl Grease monkey is the man, whatever he says goes in my book. Really miss his input around here.

  63. #63
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    I see that the aftermarket suppliers are now selling Castrol Edge Professional tws10w60 in place of the oil we have been using. I have noted from other discussion forums that the TWS Motorsport TWS 10W60 that we have been using is discontinued. The new "Edge Professional" labelled container does indeed say that it is specific to BMW M series engines. Other forums also note that there is another product called "Edge Sport" that is not suitable.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvey2 View Post
    I see that the aftermarket suppliers are now selling Castrol Edge Professional tws10w60 in place of the oil we have been using. I have noted from other discussion forums that the TWS Motorsport TWS 10W60 that we have been using is discontinued. The new "Edge Professional" labelled container does indeed say that it is specific to BMW M series engines. Other forums also note that there is another product called "Edge Sport" that is not suitable.


    1. there are 2 versions of the 60 weight oil made and sold by Castrol
    2. the change in name is likely a result of the change in formulation of BOTH versions of the 60 weight oil
    3. as far as you all should be concerned it a change in nomenclature (name is a moot point)
    4. "...another product called "Edge Sport" that is not suitable.."
    _4a. ALL Gasoline specific Castrol Oils are EDGE (edge is their top tier line of oils), this includes the BMW specific one
    _4b. I would love to hear why it is not suitable?
    _4c. Better yet I would love to hear why TWS is suitable....

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnAnthony View Post
    1. there are 2 versions of the 60 weight oil made and sold by Castrol
    2. the change in name is likely a result of the change in formulation of BOTH versions of the 60 weight oil
    3. as far as you all should be concerned it a change in nomenclature (name is a moot point)
    4. "...another product called "Edge Sport" that is not suitable.."
    _4a. ALL Gasoline specific Castrol Oils are EDGE (edge is their top tier line of oils), this includes the BMW specific one
    _4b. I would love to hear why it is not suitable?
    _4c. Better yet I would love to hear why TWS is suitable....
    Thanks for the info John. I'm no expert, just wanted to mention that changes are happening and the claims made in other forums.
    As for question 4b...yeah, me too. I do not understand why the many forums that I reviewed all claim this. Some of those forums were E39 M5 specific, and others were discussing other M engines, like S54 I think.
    And as for 4c, the argument for suitability of Castrol TWS Motorsport 10W60 (as sold by BMW) is discussed earlier in this thread.

    Not knowing any better, I am planning to use the Edge Professional tws10w60 for BMW M specific engines, as sold by my dealer, BavAuto, Pelican Parts, Turner, and others.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvey2 View Post
    ...4c, the argument for suitability of Castrol TWS Motorsport 10W60 (as sold by BMW) is discussed earlier in this thread.

    Not knowing any better, I am planning to use the Edge Professional tws10w60 for BMW M specific engines, as sold by my dealer, BavAuto, Pelican Parts, Turner, and others.
    not knowing any better is one of the more reasonable answers i've had for someone continuing to use TWS, the "i'll run what's recommended and pay to play" mentality makes for one of the better ownership experiences imo, i'm currently in the "i'll run what I like and pay to play"

    the reason i ask why is TWS recommended? is because when you get that technical answer from one of the guys who actually formulated TWS, they won't come up with some proprietary blend that is leaps ahead of anyone else, they'll just show you how TWS is relatively better than your average $8 bottle of oil, especially when you start running it for 10,000 miles (hence the results in the first post).

  67. #67
    Z8Mania
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    I am now servicing the car with an independent who has a lot of BMW experience and he suggests the following for my Z8.

    Liqui Moly Voll-Synthese Motor Oil - Synthetic - 0W40

    Welcome to bavauto.com | Liqui Moly Voll-Synthese Motor Oil - Synthetic - 5 Liters - 0W40

    He says given that Im not rocking the car too hard, the 0 weight is better for me and the spread between the 0 and 40 is better for my likely operating temps.

    Makes sense to me. John/ fellas/ any thoughts?

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8Mania View Post
    I am now servicing the car with an independent who has a lot of BMW experience and he suggests the following for my Z8.

    Liqui Moly Voll-Synthese Motor Oil - Synthetic - 0W40

    Welcome to bavauto.com | Liqui Moly Voll-Synthese Motor Oil - Synthetic - 5 Liters - 0W40

    He says given that Im not rocking the car too hard, the 0 weight is better for me and the spread between the 0 and 40 is better for my likely operating temps.

    Makes sense to me. John/ fellas/ any thoughts?

    the logic is sound

    I've used LM 0W40 in my S62, but only for winter and only because I change it out before it shears to a 30 weight (even then, I was already planning on using 5W30 for next winter, this probably doesn't concern z8 owners unless they leave their car out in sub-zero temps and crank from freezing)

    I currently have 5W40 for spring and likely summer, I chose 5w40 vs 0w40 because i wanted the oil to stay in weight throughout the OCI

    Z8Mania, even if you're doing mostly highway cruiser miles, I would still open up the car with the 40 weight oil in it. You're not lapping a track so the 0W40 will be enough to protect the engine if you're going out for a sat-sun drive

  69. #69
    Z8Mania
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    Thank you John. Thats exactly right. She's been to the track, but just not driven on the track I do drive her though. Hard to believe she's 14 years old...

  70. #70
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8-NL's Avatar
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    my dealer just used Shell Helix Utra Racing 10W60
    crap or OK???

  71. #71
    No idea, and not even sure how you can find out!
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

  72. #72
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    @Z8-NL

    shell helix ultra 10w60 is spec'd for:


    ferrari enzo
    http://www.ferraridatabase.com/The_D...02003%20US.pdf

    ferrari 599 GTO
    http://www.ferraridatabase.com/The_D...90.10%20EN.pdf

    RUF RT-35
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kteYu3FJjPY

    EDIT:
    but if you need a 60 weight for your use then Mobil 1 10W60, Shell Helix 10W60, & Lubro/Liqui Moly 10W60 should all be fine

  73. #73
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    Klaus,

    It happened to me too: the story goes that BMW has no contract with Castrol ( anymore) and for that reason they cannot print "Castrol" on your bill :-) I had an oil change at another BMW dealer ....better safe than sorry :-)
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-acht View Post
    Klaus,

    It happened to me too: the story goes that BMW has no contract with Castrol ( anymore) and for that reason they cannot print "Castrol" on your bill :-) I had an oil change at another BMW dealer ....better safe than sorry :-)
    could you elaborate? I don't get it, does BMW have a contract with Shell then? The oil spec would not change unless it was part of new contract/agreement, if BMW and Castrol severed their ties TWS would still be the recommended oil

  75. #75
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    John,

    To be precise...I am talking about BMW Holland. And yes BMW Holland sells Shell products for their cars. So you have to emphasize that you want TWS 10-60 for your Z8. Even than they don't have a code for this brand and they print Shell helix on your bill......that is what they told me ....but I had it changed in my presence with TWS :-)
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

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