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Thread: Tail Lights - Breaking News

  1. #1
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Tail Lights - Breaking News

    Dear Club Members and Z8 owners,

    Breaking and exciting news concerning tail lights. BMW will replace defective tail lights now. Please read the attached letter asap and contact us if you are affected.

    Sincere Z8 regards,
    Dieter Weidenbrück
    Chairman Technical Matters

    Englisch:
    http://www.bmwz8club.com/images/PDF/150813_exchange.pdf
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  2. #2
    Team Z8 zed8's Avatar
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    I got the mail as well. This is the best news I got in 2015. I am a happy proud member of Z8 Club.
    Hattat

    AF77768 Topasblau / Schwarz

    PP installed
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  3. #3
    Team Z8 zed8's Avatar
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    Dieter, if you have some information regarding the procedures at our local dealers, could you please inform us? What is the PUMA number? Will the club send this number to us? How shall we know when to replace the units? Will the lical dealer be informed about this exchange by BMW AG? Then they will call us?
    Now I filled in the form and sent to club. What will be the next step? Shall we wait for a next step?

    Thanks in advance.
    Hattat

    AF77768 Topasblau / Schwarz

    PP installed
    Motorsport 20" style 101 wheels
    Eisenmann catback
    Supersprint headers
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  4. #4
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    I have no information yet how this will be handled in detail in the US. BMW USA has been informed though, so they should know the process.
    As said, the first step is that we get the list to BMW, and I will then let everybody know when things are ready for you to contact BMW US or your local dealer.

    Needless to say that we wanted to get this absolutely exciting piece of news to you as quickly as possible. So I guess that over the next week or two we will obtain all the necessary details and pass them on.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  5. #5
    Team Z8 zed8's Avatar
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    All right. I am not in US, I guess same procedures will apply to BMW Turkey.
    Hattat

    AF77768 Topasblau / Schwarz

    PP installed
    Motorsport 20" style 101 wheels
    Eisenmann catback
    Supersprint headers
    CDV removed
    Quaife LSD
    3.64 gearing

  6. #6
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zed8 View Post
    All right. I am not in US, I guess same procedures will apply to BMW Turkey.
    Ok, didn't recognize your avatar name, sorry.

    Yes, there should be a similar procedure in Turkey.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  7. #7
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    Hello Dieter!

    That is great news! My driver's side light is out completely and my passenger side light flickers....and chooses not to work. What do I do now to get them exchanged?

  8. #8
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    WOW!!! Thank you so much for this great news. I have been waiting (one of my tubes is out, but it still works), and am glad I did.

    I wish I could express my gratitude to you and the folks that worked on this somehow... if you are ever in Vancouver, Canada, drop me a line, and I will commit to showing you our great city from the water fro an afternoon.

    Thanks,

    Pat

  9. #9
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Dogsbreath's Avatar
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    Great news. European or North American lights? I gather BMW canada will do the same. Dave p

  10. #10
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogsbreath View Post
    Great news. European or North American lights? I gather BMW canada will do the same. Dave p
    both ....the only downside I see now is that the program is only for owners who have the problem now. I installed a new tail light two years ago (bought and installed by a BMW workshop) but I don't get a new light as far as a can see now.
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  11. #11
    Team Z8 zed8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-acht View Post
    both ....the only downside I see now is that the program is only for owners who have the problem now. I installed a new tail light two years ago (bought and installed by a BMW workshop) but I don't get a new light as far as a can see now.
    As far as I understand the exception will apply if the tail light was ever replaced under warranty or free of charge by your local dealer. If you paid for it, there should be no problem.
    Hattat

    AF77768 Topasblau / Schwarz

    PP installed
    Motorsport 20" style 101 wheels
    Eisenmann catback
    Supersprint headers
    CDV removed
    Quaife LSD
    3.64 gearing

  12. #12
    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
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    Great news, will send this out tommorow. any idea on timing? a couple of months, several months?
    2002 Silver Black/Red

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  13. #13
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    As far as I understand the exception will apply if the tail light was ever replaced under warranty or free of charge by your local dealer. If you paid for it, there should be no problem.
    Dieter wrote me that replacement is only the case if you have a broken tail light NOW. For me this goodwill operation is a poor gesture because BMW "helped" the owners who were waiting for a couple of years in 2013 with new produced taillight with the old problems and let them pay the full amount. After eliminating the backlog they stopped production and now the people who suffered a broken tail light since than get it for free. IMO a proper goodwill operation would have been if all owners who replaced a tail light at a certified BMW workshop and can show a bill should be compensated with a new one.
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  14. #14
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    And, while my lights are still working, what happens when they fail next year, or the year after? And you know they will at some point!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Norcal View Post
    And, while my lights are still working, what happens when they fail next year, or the year after? And you know they will at some point!
    That was my take on this topic too. I would hope that if there is an inherent defective in the original design/build of the tail lights all units would be a replaced. With that said, it feels like a very generous offer by BMW to stand behind the Z8 12 years after the last car was produced.
    My Best,

    Ed

    2002 Z8 Jet Black//Sport Red
    2012 SLS AMG Obsidian Black/Classic Red

  16. #16
    Team Z8 zed8's Avatar
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    I believe whether we have a working or a defective light, BMW will replace the lights according to our written statement.
    Hattat

    AF77768 Topasblau / Schwarz

    PP installed
    Motorsport 20" style 101 wheels
    Eisenmann catback
    Supersprint headers
    CDV removed
    Quaife LSD
    3.64 gearing

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norcal View Post
    And, while my lights are still working, what happens when they fail next year, or the year after? And you know they will at some point!
    Agreed...It's not clear to me how this works in the future, but a one time replacement offer for a known manufacturing defect would be a great gesture by BMW.

  18. #18
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    The goodwill gesture as generous as it is, is ill-conceived in my opinion.

    As others have pointed out, it penalizes those whose lights have not failed (but will fail for sure in the coming years) and rewards those who claim to have broken lights, request replacements (upgraded and better lights) through the Z8 Club-managed exchange program and "inadvertently" zap the lights just before they are called in to the dealer for the exchange.

    Or am I misunderstanding something ?
    Dirk

    Alpina #142
    www.bmwccca.com

  19. #19
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkZ8 View Post
    The goodwill gesture as generous as it is, is ill-conceived in my opinion.

    Or am I misunderstanding something ?
    Yes.


    1. I pointed out in the letter that this goodwill gesture is a first step to help those owners who can't use their cars, i.e. who do have problems now. I also mentioned that by the end of September a decision will be made about handling of future cases.
    2. There is no shortage of supply. As I pointed out in the letter, all parts of the units can be produced as new parts now. This has never been the case since about 2003. There is no basis for an asumption that somebody whose tail light will fail in a couple of years won't have a chance to replace it.
    3. BMW has certainly taken way too much time to get to this point where production of new tail lights is possible. Then, instead of just some financial contribution to a problem of a year that has been out of production for 12 years now, BMW decided to eliminate all cases of urgency free of charge for the owners. This is generous. Based on this, I also expect a solution for the long run that we all be able to accept.


    Hope this helps.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  20. #20
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-acht View Post
    Dieter wrote me that replacement is only the case if you have a broken tail light NOW. For me this goodwill operation is a poor gesture because BMW "helped" the owners who were waiting for a couple of years in 2013 with new produced taillight with the old problems and let them pay the full amount. After eliminating the backlog they stopped production and now the people who suffered a broken tail light since than get it for free. IMO a proper goodwill operation would have been if all owners who replaced a tail light at a certified BMW workshop and can show a bill should be compensated with a new one.
    Ton, BMW didn't stop production once they had eliminated the backlog. They stopped production, because those units were assembled from remaining parts of the original Italian company that had produced the tail lights at that time.
    The two containers with parts helped them to produce a certain number of units, but when they were empty, they were empty. Believe me, they would have loved to produce more units at that time.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  21. #21
    This is great news in that there will be an OEM replacement for tail lights, whether they already have failed now or will in the future. I'm apparently not going to benefit from the "goodwill gesture" in that I'm lucky enough to still have working lights. But I'm happy for evyerone who has suffered failed equipment. Good luck with the replacements. From what I read, they're going to "triage" the order of who gets them when.... In the future, production will ramp up sufficiently to cover whoever needs them. That's the working theory anyway.
    Best,
    Greg

    - - - Updated - - -

    Geez, now reading lower in the thread...did I mis-read? I thought they're going to have an OEM solution going forward for those of us who need replacements in the coming years too?
    Greg AH61930 - 2003 - Silver/Black

  22. #22
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Interesting detail:

    I have one single reply from the entire US, 2 from Canada so far.
    It looks like the problem doesn't exist in those areas.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  23. #23
    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwz8 View Post
    Interesting detail:

    I have one single reply from the entire US, 2 from Canada so far.
    It looks like the problem doesn't exist in those areas.
    I am Scanning the document and sending it back to you today. My guess is not every member visits every day and others like me put this on the to do list and get around to it in a few days. You will have more responses in a week or so. There are I'm sure a number of failed tail lights of people not connected with either the club or forum who will never know about this program. Thanks again for your diligent work on this
    2002 Silver Black/Red

    Dinan stage 4 software
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  24. #24
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    That may be the case. I had to send an intermediate report to BMW today, and I recommended to up the number quite a bit.

    Let's think about the uniformed owners for a minute:
    There are two cases possible:
    1. They don't have tail light problems. Then, the campaign won't matter to them anyway.
    2. They have some kind of failure. In that case, they will be in touch with their dealer, and he can easily find the campaign in his PUMA system.

    So there should be no disadvantage for Z8 owners outside of the Club or this board. Apart from the fact that they miss quite a bit of the fun. ;-)
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  25. #25
    Z8 Novice glord's Avatar
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    clarification

    Quote Originally Posted by dwz8 View Post
    Dear Club Members and Z8 owners,

    Breaking and exciting news concerning tail lights. BMW will replace defective tail lights now. Please read the attached letter asap and contact us if you are affected.

    Sincere Z8 regards,
    Dieter Weidenbrück
    Chairman Technical Matters

    Englisch:
    http://www.bmwz8club.com/images/PDF/150813_exchange.pdf

    This does appear to be good news and thank you to all involved helping to make this happen. Can anyone elaborate on what is meant by "wrong tail light versions (US tail lights where ECE units would be needed, and vice versa) "?

    Regards


    2001 BMW Z8
    2014 Porsche Carrera TTS
    2005 Ford GT
    2002 BMW M5
    1972 Chevrolet Blazer
    1972 GMC Jimmy
    1966 Oldsmobile 442 Convertible

  26. #26
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glord View Post
    This does appear to be good news and thank you to all involved helping to make this happen. Can anyone elaborate on what is meant by "wrong tail light versions (US tail lights where ECE units would be needed, and vice versa) "?
    In Germany, the usage of ECE tail lights is mandatory, i.e. yellow/red ones. Some owners had to use US tail lights (red/red) because they weren't able to obtain replacement for the correct ones. Hence they drive with wrong tail lights now, and this needs to be changed.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  27. #27
    Team Z8 JoshB's Avatar
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    Is there a point of contact or a corperate memo we can point to or access? I called up Wide world of cars BMW here in Nanuet NY and they had no clue about this.
    2002 Silver Black/Red

    Dinan stage 4 software
    Dinan low restriction carbon fiber airboxes
    Dinan high flow air mass meters
    Hamann headers
    Supersprint exhaust
    performance package
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    cdv modifacation
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    19 inch 3 piece HRE mags/Toyo tires
    Custom crossdrilled/slotted rotors
    ceramic brake pads
    stainless brake lines
    Dinan caster plates
    Dinan duel mass flywheel
    custom Sachs clutch /pressure plate
    Dinan pedal set

  28. #28
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    This information will become available shortly, most likely this week.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  29. #29
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    I definitely have the issue and genuinely appreciate the news and the work that went into this!
    Form will be processed and sent.

    A big Thank You from SoCal!
    AKA Mark from SoCal

    2003 Alpina - Black/Black
    Original Owner

  30. #30
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Dogsbreath's Avatar
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    Hi Dieter

    Thanks to everyone for their stellar work on this.

    I 'think' you have my info, which I emailed to you, but I am not sure. Do you plan to send out a list of those who have responded ? This would help them confirm that you received the info

    Dave P
    Vancouver, BC
    Canada

  31. #31
    Team Z8 zed8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogsbreath View Post
    Hi Dieter

    Thanks to everyone for their stellar work on this.

    I 'think' you have my info, which I emailed to you, but I am not sure. Do you plan to send out a list of those who have responded ? This would help them confirm that you received the info

    Dave P
    Vancouver, BC
    Canada
    +1. I agree on this
    Hattat

    AF77768 Topasblau / Schwarz

    PP installed
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  32. #32
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    I am waiting for some more details from BMW. As soon as we have those, I will send out an email to those who responded to suggest the next steps for them. This should happen within one week approximately.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  33. #33
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    Thanks again! Waiting with baited breath here in Los Angeles....with lights out I've stopped driving now after getting pulled over by LAPD for lights out!

  34. #34
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Submitted my info last week. Please keep me updated.
    thegunguy

  35. #35
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    I checked with my dealer (Sonnen BMW in Marin, CA) and they know nothing about this. Any suggestions on how we can avail ourselves of this offer?

  36. #36
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZED ACHT View Post
    I checked with my dealer (Sonnen BMW in Marin, CA) and they know nothing about this. Any suggestions on how we can avail ourselves of this offer?
    You need to submit your claim through the Z8 Club. See original post from Dieter, or this link:
    http://www.bmwz8club.com/images/PDF/150813_exchange.pdf
    thegunguy

  37. #37
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    I still think dealer needs to be involved

    Quote Originally Posted by thegunguy View Post
    You need to submit your claim through the Z8 Club. See original post from Dieter, or this link:
    http://www.bmwz8club.com/images/PDF/150813_exchange.pdf
    I don't think that submitted a claim; just helped to give them an estimate of how big the problem is and where it is. I submitted the info, but since the actual work is going to be done by a BMW-authorized facility, sooner or later those facilities are going to have to know about this and have access to the new units. Do you have different information or a different picture of how this is going to work? As I have a defective unit now, of course I am anxious to get the change made.

  38. #38
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    The Club worked with BMW to initiate the program, as it is critical to so many European owners who can't even place their cars on the road without new lights. The Club has been our direct line of communication with AG for a decade, and this is especially the case now that the car is under the care of Classic. So, The Club is the best contact to get the process started.

    I too informed Peter Pan, and they are also checking with their regional contacts and Bill Stuart at NA. Like the frame issue, this will start with AG and The Club, and it will roll down to the country specific organizations and then out to the service centers. Feel free to go up stream, but we've been to this dance before. Things will go much smoother for you if you follow the established process set by The Club and the likely-to-come case number system which will be necessary for the local center to order the parts and comp the labor.
    thegunguy

  39. #39
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    Ok. So then I should not approach my local dealer just yet about the repair/replacement?

    Quote Originally Posted by thegunguy View Post
    The Club worked with BMW to initiate the program, as it is critical to so many European owners who can't even place their cars on the road without new lights. The Club has been our direct line of communication with AG for a decade, and this is especially the case now that the car is under the care of Classic. So, The Club is the best contact to get the process started.

    I too informed Peter Pan, and they are also checking with their regional contacts and Bill Stuart at NA. Like the frame issue, this will start with AG and The Club, and it will roll down to the country specific organizations and then out to the service centers. Feel free to go up stream, but we've been to this dance before. Things will go much smoother for you if you follow the established process set by The Club and the likely-to-come case number system which will be necessary for the local center to order the parts and comp the labor.

  40. #40
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8DinanS2 View Post
    Ok. So then I should not approach my local dealer just yet about the repair/replacement?
    If you have a familiar contact at your service center, sure, tell them what's in the works. However, I'd advise against having them start to get parts, etc. The way these programs typically work is that something like a case number is created, and then the parts are ordered by associating it with the case.

    BMW can can get a little grumpy when you jump the gun and start gathering parts outside of the process. While this likely won't keep you from getting the lights and labor covered, it might come in to play with future issues you have down the road. Many of us owners can speak to BMW's continued commitment to Z8, by offering case-by-case goodwill coverage of issues well outside of warranty. So, if you're going to have you car for a while, it's best to have a blemish free reputation with the powers that be. It will pay off for you.

    So, sure, definitely talk with your local dealer. I even sent a copy of the letter to Matt at Peter Pan, but there's not much they can (or should) do until the The Club and BMW start the ball rolling.
    thegunguy

  41. #41
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    Goin' with the flow

    Quote Originally Posted by thegunguy View Post
    If you have a familiar contact at your service center, sure, tell them what's in the works. However, I'd advise against having them start to get parts, etc. The way these programs typically work is that something like a case number is created, and then the parts are ordered by associating it with the case.

    BMW can can get a little grumpy when you jump the gun and start gathering parts outside of the process. While this likely won't keep you from getting the lights and labor covered, it might come in to play with future issues you have down the road. Many of us owners can speak to BMW's continued commitment to Z8, by offering case-by-case goodwill coverage of issues well outside of warranty. So, if you're going to have you car for a while, it's best to have a blemish free reputation with the powers that be. It will pay off for you.

    So, sure, definitely talk with your local dealer. I even sent a copy of the letter to Matt at Peter Pan, but there's not much they can (or should) do until the The Club and BMW start the ball rolling.
    I have no intent to go against the grain here - but as a newbie (I bought my car in May), I am trying to figure out what the process is. Your response helps.

  42. #42
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice. How long does it typically take for BMW to issue the case number, etc.?

    Quote Originally Posted by thegunguy View Post
    If you have a familiar contact at your service center, sure, tell them what's in the works. However, I'd advise against having them start to get parts, etc. The way these programs typically work is that something like a case number is created, and then the parts are ordered by associating it with the case.

    BMW can can get a little grumpy when you jump the gun and start gathering parts outside of the process. While this likely won't keep you from getting the lights and labor covered, it might come in to play with future issues you have down the road. Many of us owners can speak to BMW's continued commitment to Z8, by offering case-by-case goodwill coverage of issues well outside of warranty. So, if you're going to have you car for a while, it's best to have a blemish free reputation with the powers that be. It will pay off for you.

    So, sure, definitely talk with your local dealer. I even sent a copy of the letter to Matt at Peter Pan, but there's not much they can (or should) do until the The Club and BMW start the ball rolling.

  43. #43
    Amazing, and thank you! Hadn't checked the board for awhile but sending my form in today.

    Tyler
    Tyler
    60658 Silver
    Los Angeles

  44. #44
    Sport Button On Z8 4JR's Avatar
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    Hello Dieter,

    I am not sure if anyone else is in my situation, but when I bought my Z8 back in Dec 2012, I bought 2 brand new rear lights assemblies from a BMW parts dealer in Feb 2013; parts# 63-21-6-923-525 & 526; I wanted to keep these in storage until I experience the problem with my rear lights; so are the ones I bought any good? or they have the old technologies/defects???Thanks,

  45. #45
    Team Z8 zed8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8 4JR View Post
    Hello Dieter,

    I am not sure if anyone else is in my situation, but when I bought my Z8 back in Dec 2012, I bought 2 brand new rear lights assemblies from a BMW parts dealer in Feb 2013; parts# 63-21-6-923-525 & 526; I wanted to keep these in storage until I experience the problem with my rear lights; so are the ones I bought any good? or they have the old technologies/defects???Thanks,
    Those new tail lights will probably fail because they are from the old run and I dont think BMW AG will replace them because they have the porobabilty to fail in the future.
    Hattat

    AF77768 Topasblau / Schwarz

    PP installed
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  46. #46
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    The Plot Thickens

    Quote Originally Posted by Z8DinanS2 View Post
    Thanks for the advice. How long does it typically take for BMW to issue the case number, etc.?
    I just heard back from my dealer and he told me that they checked and the official word is that this is a German-only campaign and at this time there are no plans to extend it to the US. I hope that is not the final word.

  47. #47
    Certainly not good news if true. Dieter's early communications indicated that BMWUSA was alerted to the program, which more than implies it includes the US!

    Bill

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    X'd digits

    Quote Originally Posted by boomster View Post
    Certainly not good news if true. Dieter's early communications indicated that BMWUSA was alerted to the program, which more than implies it includes the US!

    Bill
    As you can imagine, I am all knotted up with crossed fingers and toes!

  49. #49
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8 4JR View Post
    Hello Dieter,

    I am not sure if anyone else is in my situation, but when I bought my Z8 back in Dec 2012, I bought 2 brand new rear lights assemblies from a BMW parts dealer in Feb 2013; parts# 63-21-6-923-525 & 526; I wanted to keep these in storage until I experience the problem with my rear lights; so are the ones I bought any good? or they have the old technologies/defects???Thanks,
    These should be units build from some parts from the 2001 production plus a new control unit. There is no particular reason why they should fail.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  50. #50
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZED ACHT View Post
    As you can imagine, I am all knotted up with crossed fingers and toes!
    So are we. All I can say is that we have waited for quite some time without any solution, so let me ask for your patience for some more time. It will be a matter of weeks to sort everything out. Dealers in the US will not have any valid information at this point in time.

    I hope to have an official update within the next 10 days containing more precise information. Don't kill me if it will be 14 days.

    Please keep in mind that we have a different situation with US tail lights and ECE tail lights. There has never been a shortage of US tail lights, whereas the ECE units have been out for several years now, except for a couple that were assembled in 2013. So the way things will be handled will most likely be different between ECE countries and the US/Canada.

    I have a kind of a red telephone linked to BMW right now, and we do what we can.

    As soon as I have confirmed information I will contact those who have sent in their form asap.

    Thinking about it, I will only cross my fingers, not my toes. Didn't work with mine.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  51. #51
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    Let's hope that's not true and that BMW stands behind its product both in the U.S. and Germany (and elsewhere).

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwz8 View Post
    These should be units build from some parts from the 2001 production plus a new control unit. There is no particular reason why they should fail.
    OK great news; sounds good to me! Thank you Dieter!

  53. #53
    Dieter,

    Again, thanks for all your efforts on our behalf. Hopefully BMW takes a "Global" view of this issue!

    Bill

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    Thanks for your good work and for keeping us up to date on progress. It is a natural to assume that no news means nothing is happening, so your continued participation here is quite comforting.

  55. #55
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomster View Post
    Hopefully BMW takes a "Global" view of this issue!
    This is the goal.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  56. #56
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    My cousin owns a BMW dealership in Belgium and has confirmed that a PUMA (BMW's internal lingo for a Recall) has been issued by BMW to its dealers this week regarding the tail lights of the Z8. The questions asked to determine whether a car qualifies are along the lines of Dieter's letter on the topic. It does appear things are falling in place quite nicely. Thanks Dieter and to all of those who negotiated a solution for all of us. We appreciate your efforts.
    ------------------------
    Regards,
    Bruno

    2003 Stratus/Crema

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    Sent you my information last night. Hopefully this comes to the US. Other wise I will be having the modified with LEDs.

  58. #58
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    Hopefully BMW will do the "right" thing. The simple fact is this is clearly a design defect issue. I have never heard of any car needing its taillight assemblies replaced the way scores of z8s need theirs replaced. Light bulbs sure. But entire (very expensive) assemblies replaced because they fail? Under the consumer expectation test consumers expect core components of a vehicle to last. If after ten years windshields on a car started cracking or body parts started falling off the car we'd clearly see this as a design defect. This light issue is simply the result of a bad design and not one "built to last."

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    LEDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Saylesd01 View Post
    Sent you my information last night. Hopefully this comes to the US. Other wise I will be having the modified with LEDs.
    As a newbie to this forum (and the Z8), I am wondering if anyone has posted a report on the LED tail light conversion. Frankly, it sounds like an upgrade and for those of us who have non-original cars anyway, it might be the way to go. Unless the factory recall is real, as the price of that would certainly recommend it.

  60. #60
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Information will be sent out within the next two days. Last round of finetuning with BMW now.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  61. #61
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    Fingers crossed for those of us in North America

  62. #62
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    Details Goodwill Campaign

    Dear Club Members and Z8 owners,

    A month ago we have informed you about a planned goodwill campaign by BMW related to Z8 tail lights. Now all details are known regarding the exchange of the first tail lights. You will find all details in the attached letter.

    Sincere Z8 regards,
    Dieter Weidenbrück
    Chairman Technical Matters

    www.bmwz8club.com/images/PDF/150913_exchange.pdf

    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  63. #63
    I am surprised and disappointed that BMW has excluded the US and Canada from the policy. It is hard to believe they found "very few" cases of defective taillights here- other than lens color, is there any difference between ECE and US versions of the units? My car had the passenger side replaced several years ago and the driver's side is currently failing, and my sense is that my car is pretty typical. How do we convince BMW to provide us the same assistance they are providing everyone else?

    Bill

  64. #64
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    There is a technical difference that actually matters. In the US, the turning lights will be used during breaking as well. Therefore the control unit had been built stronger than for the ECE units. The main reason for failures with the ECE units was a defect of the control unit, hence the difference.

    For the US and CAN, I suggest the following:

    1. Contact your local dealer as suggested to hear how they want to handle this. Please keep in mind that there may be legal considerations only for the exclusion, but that there still may be a good solution for you.
    2. If you're unhappy after that visit, write to BMW NA asap.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  65. #65
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    It is hard to believe they found "very few" cases of defective taillights here
    If it is true I should think that BMW should have replaced the tail lights without any hesitation: a small investment and great "return on investment" in terms of marketing!

    The following cases will be handled:
    1. Cars with ECE lights with one or two total failures due to a technical defect,
    2. Cars with ECE lights running with altered tail lights due to a technical defect (LED, other technologies),
    3. ECE Cars with illegal tail lights
      (US unit mounted to a Z8 that should be using ECE tail lights in the respective country)
    The ECE goodwill campaign lacks imo consistency:

    #1 is clear, the car cannot be driven because of a technical defect.

    #2 is questionable: owners who choose and paid for an alternative technology get a new light for free and Bill and I who paid for a new original light and we get nothing!!??? In both cases there you can speak of a defect tail light only the solution is different.

    #3 is more questionable: owners who broke the law get a freebie, owners who were law abiding citizens get nothing. And the US imported cars who changed from US to ECE light and become defected get nothing!

    I am happy for everyone who gets a free replacement and the club did a great job ( I don't shoot the messenger Dieter ) but BMW does not show very much "compassion" for the ALL the owners who were "victim" of their bad products
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-acht View Post
    If it is true I should think that BMW should have replaced the tail lights without any hesitation: a small investment and great "return on investment" in terms of marketing!
    As said, owners with problems should contact their dealers and find out what happens. We should not comment from the outside without knowing the outcome.
    That said, I would have prefered a clean worldwide campaign, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-acht View Post
    The ECE goodwill campaign lacks imo consistency:

    #1 is clear, the car cannot be driven because of a technical defect.

    #2 is questionable: owners who choose and paid for an alternative technology get a new light for free and Bill and I who paid for a new original light and we get nothing!!??? In both cases there you can speak of a defect tail light only the solution is different.
    All cars using alternative technologies are illegal in ECE markets. That includes LED units as well as repaired units. The intent here is to help everybody get back to a road legal car.
    As far as the reimbursement for past cases is concerned I can just say that this is BMW's decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-acht View Post
    #3 is more questionable: owners who broke the law get a freebie, owners who were law abiding citizens get nothing.
    Just to be precise here: these are ECE cars fitted with a US tail light, or in other works: failure of the original unit, and substitution with US tail lights because there was no ECE unit available.
    Quote Originally Posted by Z-acht View Post
    And the US imported cars who changed from US to ECE light and become defected get nothing!
    This is not correct. Once an imported car has switched to ECE light and has a failure now, it will be covered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-acht View Post
    I am happy for everyone who gets a free replacement and the club did a great job ( I don't shoot the messenger Dieter ) but BMW does not show very much "compassion" for the ALL the owners who were "victim" of their bad products
    All I can suggest is a letter to BMW Munich, Abteilung Gewährleistung (warranty department) to express your opinion.

    Thanks for not shooting me after months of fighting for the details.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  67. #67
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    This is more than unfortunate. Frankly, BMW admits there is a design flaw with these tailights. They are replacing the European ones simply because the same defect causes a different consequence. For BMW to say that talight failure is an isolated event in the USA is utter nonsense! If this was a GM car or a Toyota there would be hearings in Congress over this nonsense....or at the minimum, the dealers would rectify the situation. Frankly, this is unacceptable. The fact is there is a defect with the neon taillight design....a critical vehicle safety component. I will seek individual relief but if BMW fails to respond........

  68. #68
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    Hello Dieter and thank you for all you've been able to accomplish thus far. Can you speak to your contacts about this? The U.S. market is a critical market for BMW and I suspect its largest single global market. In addition, its also a market where consumers vindicate their rights through formal channels when informal efforts fail. If BMW were found to be selling vehicles with defective safety components....and then learned BMW took care of the European lights but not the American market, I suspect an American jury might find against BMW....not just for the lights to be replaced now, but for all the lights consumers have already had to purchase. In addition, there would be claims for loss of use, which would be substantial, as well as statutory damages, attorneys fees, etc. Perhaps if you have an informal chat with the powers that be in Munchen they will realize it will be cheaper and better for customer relations to replace the lights in American's cars as well.

  69. #69
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    Poor show from BMW. I will take my car to the shop but at this stage I feel as though i am being treated as a second class citizen. Will see what comes of this from the shop......

  70. #70
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    I applaud Dieter and the Z8 club for bringing this situation to this point. As I see it, BMW has now admitted that the tail lights do not live up to what we expected when purchasing a BMW "These failures do not correspond to the quality expected from BMW, especially for a car like the Z8". By stating this, IMO, they have admitted that we were not provided what was represented which makes BMW guilty of breach of contract or fraud.

    Yes, while proud of the International Club for achieving this preliminary agreement, I am very very angry. I actually drove my Z8 regularly and was made to jump through hoops for almost a year stopped several times by the police for tail light related questioning before I was able to get my lights replaced. First, they refused to replace them through an extended warranty purchased by the very same BMW dealership. Next, they sent several previously installed lights (obvious by the scratches on the chrome and dirt along the lens) for the replacement which I refused. After 8 wasted round trips to the dealership, I paid to have them replaced.

    This battle tarnished my love for the BMW marque and unfortunately the Z8 as well. While I still have my "Z8 Shrine" in my office with a decade of collectables and photos of the friends made through owning the car, I have refused to buy any BMW products since that time. In addition, I have not been shy about sharing my story with others who have bypassed BMW in their purchases. I can't bear to enter the dealership without feeling my blood pressure soar. Now, just as I was starting to soften and consider an i8, I am again insulted by BMWNA by their not recognizing the need to reimburse me for what I spent to fix "their" problem. I fully recognize that the dollar amount in question is a mere fraction of what I have spent purchasing and maintaining the Z8 and should not drive me this crazy, but I just can't get past the terrible treatment and disrespect shown to me throughout this ordeal.

    I am hoping that BMWNA will step up and make us all feel better about this: Reimburse those folks who have had to replace their tail lights to keep their cars legal and replace the lights of those currently experiencing the problem.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenZ8 View Post
    I applaud Dieter and the Z8 club for bringing this situation to this point. As I see it, BMW has now admitted that the tail lights do not live up to what we expected when purchasing a BMW "These failures do not correspond to the quality expected from BMW, especially for a car like the Z8". By stating this, IMO, they have admitted that we were not provided what was represented which makes BMW guilty of breach of contract or fraud.

    Yes, while proud of the International Club for achieving this preliminary agreement, I am very very angry. I actually drove my Z8 regularly and was made to jump through hoops for almost a year stopped several times by the police for tail light related questioning before I was able to get my lights replaced. First, they refused to replace them through an extended warranty purchased by the very same BMW dealership. Next, they sent several previously installed lights (obvious by the scratches on the chrome and dirt along the lens) for the replacement which I refused. After 8 wasted round trips to the dealership, I paid to have them replaced.

    This battle tarnished my love for the BMW marque and unfortunately the Z8 as well. While I still have my "Z8 Shrine" in my office with a decade of collectables and photos of the friends made through owning the car, I have refused to buy any BMW products since that time. In addition, I have not been shy about sharing my story with others who have bypassed BMW in their purchases. I can't bear to enter the dealership without feeling my blood pressure soar. Now, just as I was starting to soften and consider an i8, I am again insulted by BMWNA by their not recognizing the need to reimburse me for what I spent to fix "their" problem. I fully recognize that the dollar amount in question is a mere fraction of what I have spent purchasing and maintaining the Z8 and should not drive me this crazy, but I just can't get past the terrible treatment and disrespect shown to me throughout this ordeal.

    I am hoping that BMWNA will step up and make us all feel better about this: Reimburse those folks who have had to replace their tail lights to keep their cars legal and replace the lights of those currently experiencing the problem.
    Exactly. They've all but admitted the design defect. I too was pulled over by the BHPD for driving with a tail light out (while the other one flickered!) After the second pull-over and lengthy explanation and pleading for them not to issue a ticket I parked my Z8 and put it under a cover hoping for a real solution to the defective taillight situation.

    When i heard BMW was actually doing the right thing and standing behind their halo product I actually went to a BMW dealer about adding a Z4 to my Z1 and Z8 collection. I was about to post on the top Ferrari website how BMW stood behind its cars and how Ferrari could learn from BMW.

    Then this letter comes where BMW admits fault in their design but won't remedy the problem for those of us in their biggest marketplace???

    Let's hope this situation is properly rectified. I have owned many cars (Lamborghinis, Ferraris, Maseratis, Porsches, TVRs, Jaguars, Intermeccanica Italia, Bricklin, Pantera, etc.) and never had an experience like this with so basic a component (taillights) being defective.

    Otherwise, I /we have serious claims, including claims for loss of use of our rather expensive vehicles.

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    Here is an update. I contacted my dealer per the "Procedure for USA and Canada" section of Mr. Weidenbruck's September 13 letter. Their response was to contact BMW NA Customer Service, which I did. BMW NA's claim is that they know nothing about Z8 tail light problems, they know nothing of Mr. Weidenbruck or the BMW Z8 Club e.V. (!), and they have no plans for any action whatsoever on the issue.

    My personal take on this is that I am amazed. Considering the size of BMW and the relative size of the Z8 fleet, I imagine the cost to BMW of 'doing the right thing' would be next to nothing compared to the publicity value. What in the world are they thinking? or are the thinking? This is a terrible PR gaff.

  73. #73
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    This is the released statement from BMW:

    Per our conversation you may use the following sentence concerning Z8 taillights: If a similar issue with the Z8 presents itself for U.S. vehicle owners BMW NA will investigate and take action – if necessary, on a case-by-case basis.
    Probably necessary to find the right person inside BMW NA?
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwz8 View Post
    This is the released statement from BMW:



    Probably necessary to find the right person inside BMW NA?
    Well, if you have a BMW NA organization chart and/or can tell me how to find that person, I'd be most grateful. As it was, I talked to three individuals as I was presumably referred around the organization in their attempt to connect me with someone familiar with the issue. My report on the success of that is above.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZED ACHT View Post
    Well, if you have a BMW NA organization chart and/or can tell me how to find that person, I'd be most grateful. As it was, I talked to three individuals as I was presumably referred around the organization in their attempt to connect me with someone familiar with the issue. My report on the success of that is above.
    I have forwarded your information to BMW, and I'm waiting for a reply.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

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