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Thread: Tail Lights - Breaking News

  1. #76
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    Thank you.

  2. #77
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Name:  635778869003972333-AP-Germany-Frankfurt-Auto-Show.jpg
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    Missing caption from photo of BMW's CEO Harald Krueger:
    "What did they tell the US Z8 owners???"

  3. #78
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Dogsbreath's Avatar
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    Dieter

    Please send me the correct contact information as well. Dave P (Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada)

  4. #79
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    Luckily, I do not have a tail light issue, yet. However, may I suggest that those concerned contact Bill Stuart at BMW NA.
    Bill has helped several owners including myself on quite a few occasions in resolving issues related to the Z8 and I am sure that he will point us in the right direction.

    His contact information is:

    Bill Stuart
    Executive Customer Care
    BMW NA
    1-800-831-1117 – Ext 8210
    [email protected]
    Dirk

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwz8 View Post
    I have forwarded your information to BMW, and I'm waiting for a reply.
    I just spoke the service Manager at BMW Beverly Hills, Lori Down. She stated I needed to "open a case" by calling the general customer service number. When I asked her for a name she couldn't give me one. I asked her who her supervisor was and she said "I cannot give you the name of the BMW area manager." Really???

    So I called BMW Customer Relations at 1-800-831-1117. I spoke to "Jessica." She says it has not even been addressed as a Good Will campaign. "IF there is an issue it must be addressed through the local dealership. This is not being done through BMW North America."

    I then asked her who was in corporate that I could speak to about this directly. She stated she could only give me the first name for BMW customer service: "Dave." He is in Columbus, Ohio.

    I pressed further and she stated the Customer Relations Operations Manager's name is "Jess." Dept. Head for BMW Customers Relations and Service is "Richard." They are in New Jersey.

    She then said she could not put me in contact with these executives. "It is standard policy not to give executive contact information."

    She would not give me their names nor a phone number I could call. Apparently there is a wall of secrecy at BMW.

    As an aside, BMW NA has dismal 1.5 star rating on Yelp. I am hoping they do the right thing here.

  6. #81
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    I just dialed that number and it says "number is not available from my calling area." Los Angeles, California, USA

    Quote Originally Posted by DirkZ8 View Post
    Luckily, I do not have a tail light issue, yet. However, may I suggest that those concerned contact Bill Stuart at BMW NA.
    Bill has helped several owners including myself on quite a few occasions in resolving issues related to the Z8 and I am sure that he will point us in the right direction.

    His contact information is:

    Bill Stuart
    Executive Customer Care
    BMW NA
    1-800-832-1117 – Ext 8210
    [email protected]

  7. #82
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    201.307.4000 BMW NA corporate HQ
    Ludwig Willisch President BMW NA

    Calling his office now....we'll see if the receptionist transfers me..... I was greeted with the voicemail of a lady (Lindsay I believe). Left a message regarding the "Goodwill Campaign." Will see what happens next.

  8. #83
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8DinanS2 View Post
    I just dialed that number and it says "number is not available from my calling area." Los Angeles, California, USA
    Number corrected to 1-800-831-1117 (the same one as you mentioned in your post)
    Dirk

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  9. #84
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    Apparently that's just their general customer service phone number. I will try and see if I can get him directly but first I'll wait back from BMW Corporate. I think this is something that's going to have to come down from the top in order to be actually in place in North America.

  10. #85
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    Bill Stuart

    Quote Originally Posted by Z8DinanS2 View Post
    Apparently that's just their general customer service phone number. I will try and see if I can get him directly but first I'll wait back from BMW Corporate. I think this is something that's going to have to come down from the top in order to be actually in place in North America.
    His email address is [email protected].

    Here is his latest response to me (this morning CA time): "The Details of Goodwill Campaign correspondence was forwarded on for instructions on how to proceed with defective tail light problems. As soon as I have further information, I’ll report back to you."

    I suggest that we all respectfully write him (I believe he is on our side). I don't think BMW NA knows the magnitude of the problem (and of course I don't either) but it would be useful to him, as our rep to BMW Germany, to know that there are many of us sharing this tail light problem.

  11. #86
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    I sent William Stuart an email on September 16th.....to date there has not been any reply to my email.

  12. #87
    I did also.
    Now, we wait, while (we hope that) memos go flying through the hallowed halls in BMWNA and Munchen.

  13. #88
    Team Z8 zed8's Avatar
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    Today I got a phone call from my local dealer. They found the puma number and got the instructions how to proceed. Now I`m waiting for September 30th to leave the car for the test.
    Hattat

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  14. #89
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    I got a message from Bill stating that he is waiting to hear from management. He'll email once he knows something.
    thegunguy

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    "Waiting to hear from management" does not sound like he's actually doing anything. We've already "heard" from management....they are not doing anything for the U.S. market, as confirmed by the Service Manager at BH.

    I called the corporate office and was told I was being transferred to "Bill the Z8 specialist." I left him a detailed message and I hope he'll be back in touch with me.

    Either way I shall post my update here....and may start a thread on some of the other more broad based BMW forums.

  16. #91
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    There's purpose in the simplicity of my post. My advice. Be patient and let the process work until it doesn't. There's more at work than you realize.

    Unfortunately, these wheels move slow, but as I mentioned before, many of us owners have been through similar issues over the fifteen years of Z8 ownership. Working within the system generally yields very generous support, even if it takes some time. Causing waves typically leaves you the most minimal of results, if any at all.
    thegunguy

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegunguy View Post
    There's purpose in the simplicity of my post. My advice. Be patient and let the process work until it doesn't. There's more at work than you realize.

    Unfortunately, these wheels move slow, but as I mentioned before, many of us owners have been through similar issues over the fifteen years of Z8 ownership. Working within the system generally yields very generous support, even if it takes some time. Causing waves typically leaves you the most minimal of results, if any at all.
    I have a Z8, a rather lovely car with every thing Dinan offered under the sun to make it an even better performing car. I am paying insurance for my Z8. YET I CAN'T DRIVE MY Z8! About a year ago when my driver's side light died I looked into getting it repaired, i.e., replaced, and discovered (1) the price was ridiculous (I have replaced an SL65 rear taillight assembly for 1/10th the cost) and (2) the part I would buy would suffer the same fate. BTW, the lovely SL65 tailight was replaced because someone backed into it, not because it went bad. In fact, I've had some of of the earlierest Lamborghinis and Ferraris and never once ever had a tail light assembly go bad. A $2 bulb yes, a tail light assembly costing thousands of dollars? It seemed illogical to me to spend thousands of dollars on a part that would also subsequently fail due to its defective design. I would also note this is not only NOT a wear and tear item, but it is a critical safety component! Not having working tailights or brake lights is in fact a sure way to have the police pull you over for breaking the law....a law designed to protect motorists from unsafe vehicle illumination.

    Frankly, I am sick and tired of staring at my car under a cover and not being able to drive it yet paying insurance on it month after month. What's a loss of use claim on an exotic car? I know Budget and other places here in town rent these sorts of cars out and the daily rate is around $1,000.

    Life is short. No one knows how much time we have. Steve Jobs is no longer driving his SL. I want to drive my Z8 while I'm still able to do so.

    I don't know what other issues the Z8 has that are bizarre like this (except for perhaps an aluminum monocoque that bends over potholes(?)!) This issue has been percolating for a long time....long enough for guys on the internet to start manufacturing "solutions" by converting the lamps to LED.

    From where I'm sitting, this is a serious design defect issue concerning a critical safety component. If this was a mass produced car from GM or Toyota there would be a Congressional subcommittee looking into this.

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    Interesting. As one with a EU 2001 Z8 in the USA and with original tail lights still working, I guess I need to wait and see.

    On the other hand, my driver's side neon turn signal no longer even flickers and needs to be replaced. I thought the idea was that the neon was to last for the life of the vehicle. Any word on a campaign re the neon turn signals?

  19. #94
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    Any word on a campaign re the neon turn signals?
    These neon lights are not included. The problem with the tail light is not the neon tube but the control unit. The turn signal is still available at BMW classic ...and is very affordable ........comparing to the tail light unit

    63 13 6 900 395
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    part number and euro price
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  20. #95
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    It seems to me a lot of people's tail light assemblies (brake/turn/riding lights) are failing. This is a key safety element of a motor vehicle. Frankly, I'd rather have a VW that falls slightly below what it is supposed to as to a BMW that becomes dangerous and illegal to operate due to a major safety components propensity to fail. What VW did was misrepresentation (i.e., fraud). What BMW has done is negligence (with possible strict liability depending on the circumstances). However, people are not being pulled over by the police in VWs for breaking the law the way I and other BMW Z8 owners have been pulled over for having key safety equipment (lights) not functioning. You expect quirks and expensive parts from low volume manufacturers like Ferrari. Yet I've never heard of a Ferrari having these sorts of safety light issues nor are they so expensive to repair or replace. I would hardly say a control unit for a taillight assembly costing $600 dollars is a cheap fix and given so many people have had issues it is, in my estimation, a design defect issue and one that could lead to potentially fatal consequences. Tragic will it be for a Z8 owner who is rear ended and the other motorist blames the lack of a tail light or turn signal and the BMW owner is held liable for the accident due to failed rear lamps.

  21. #96
    Team Z8 zed8's Avatar
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    Hello Dieter, my car is at the local service for the tail light failure inspection. They have noticed the failure once but now it is working properly. They told me that they should capture a motion video of the faulty turn signal flashing. But they did not capture it when they noticed. So they are waiting for the tail light to fail. Its been two days. Do they really need to capture the failure with a camera or just a written statement is enough?
    Hattat

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  22. #97
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Juergen Wunderlich's Avatar
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    Hi Ufuk,
    Take a heat gun and warm up the light unit gently. Then it should be possible to visualize the failure. The problem is also related to heat besides of other circumstances of course. In 9 out of 10 times I was able to reproduce the problem with heat.
    Best Regards,

    Jürgen

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juergen Wunderlich View Post
    Hi Ufuk,
    Take a heat gun and warm up the light unit gently. Then it should be possible to visualize the failure. The problem is also related to heat besides of other circumstances of course. In 9 out of 10 times I was able to reproduce the problem with heat.
    Really? For how long? To the lens or on the top of it under the trunk lid?
    Hattat

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  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by zed8 View Post
    Really? For how long? To the lens or on the top of it under the trunk lid?
    Yes!

    For a few minutes!

    Both, lens and top of the unit! Warm up the whole unit!

    I noticed the failure on my own light unit in 2003 for the first time after the car was sitting directly in the sunlight for a few hours. In the evening, with much less outside temperature, mysteriously it worked perfectly again. The next day I tried to provide “Death Valley” temperature to the light unit with a heat gun and guess what happened? There it was again, the light unit (turn signal indicator) did not work…
    Please be careful, do not melt the lens or the housing!

    It could be a solution to proof to BMW that you have a faulty light unit (or two?)!


    I had the same problem back in 2003 at my local dealership. Each time I was there, the turn signal worked perfectly UNTIL we used a heat gun at the dealership to warm up the light units…
    I got them replaced under warranty and BMW knew at least since then! Again, this was 2003…

    Best Regards,

    Jürgen

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juergen Wunderlich View Post
    Yes!

    For a few minutes!

    Both, lens and top of the unit! Warm up the whole unit!

    I noticed the failure on my own light unit in 2003 for the first time after the car was sitting directly in the sunlight for a few hours. In the evening, with much less outside temperature, mysteriously it worked perfectly again. The next day I tried to provide “Death Valley” temperature to the light unit with a heat gun and guess what happened? There it was again, the light unit (turn signal indicator) did not work…
    Please be careful, do not melt the lens or the housing!

    It could be a solution to proof to BMW that you have a faulty light unit (or two?)!


    I had the same problem back in 2003 at my local dealership. Each time I was there, the turn signal worked perfectly UNTIL we used a heat gun at the dealership to warm up the light units…
    I got them replaced under warranty and BMW knew at least since then! Again, this was 2003…

    This is scary
    Hattat

    AF77768 Topasblau / Schwarz

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  26. #101
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    I wonder if we do it all... we probably all would have malfunctioning tail lights....and what would BMW do?
    Ton
    1 of the 71 original Dutch sold cars (jetblack/red)

  27. #102
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    I think this heat issue may be arising from hot weather plus the heat coming from the tail pipes.
    Hattat

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  28. #103
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    Last week I sent the car for the inspection. The service inspected the tail lights. Both side had failure. They also recorded the failure by a camera.
    Today they received an email from BMW stating they rejected replacement of the tail lights. I don't understand why. They have certain criterias and my case meets those criterias. So why do they reject? Is this kind of a game
    Hattat

    AF77768 Topasblau / Schwarz

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  29. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by zed8 View Post
    Last week I sent the car for the inspection. The service inspected the tail lights. Both side had failure. They also recorded the failure by a camera.
    Today they received an email from BMW stating they rejected replacement of the tail lights. I don't understand why. They have certain criterias and my case meets those criterias. So why do they reject? Is this kind of a game
    Where are you located?
    Skip Hammerman

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  30. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musta10000 View Post
    Where are you located?
    I am located in Istanbul Turkey. I took the car to the dealer. They are aware of the puma number designated to this case. They followed the instructions but it is rejected.
    Hattat

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  31. #106
    Perhaps one of the "criteria" being used by BMW is that the car must be located in Germany? Thus far it seems like nobody outside of Germany has had success in utilizing this program.

    Bill

  32. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomster View Post
    Perhaps one of the "criteria" being used by BMW is that the car must be located in Germany? Thus far it seems like nobody outside of Germany has had success in utilizing this program.

    Bill
    May be. In this case how could the dealer see this puma number?
    Hattat

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  33. #108
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    That is ridiculous! Not one but both of your lights are bad? If it was not a design defect, what are the odds of both rear tail light assemblies going bad on say a Toyota, Honda, Porsche or Mercedes. ZERO! Obviously this is a design defect issue here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zed8 View Post
    Last week I sent the car for the inspection. The service inspected the tail lights. Both side had failure. They also recorded the failure by a camera.
    Today they received an email from BMW stating they rejected replacement of the tail lights. I don't understand why. They have certain criterias and my case meets those criterias. So why do they reject? Is this kind of a game

  34. #109
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8DinanS2 View Post
    That is ridiculous! Not one but both of your lights are bad? If it was not a design defect, what are the odds of both rear tail light assemblies going bad on say a Toyota, Honda, Porsche or Mercedes. ZERO! Obviously this is a design defect issue here.

    - - - Updated - - -
    We are reaching a critical mass in terms of the number of affected vehicles and concerned owners/previous owners who are facing or have faced financial losses due to this problem. In the US, we have the Department of Transportation which has the power to start an official investigation and demand action from BMWNA in situations where safety issues are present. They will not likely respond to one registered complaint, so it must be a group effort- especially considering the very small number of Z8's produced. I suspect that owners in other countries will benefit from an action by the DOT as well although it will not be binding where they live.

    BMWNA was forced to recall 134,000 5-series in 2013 and 241,000 3-series automobiles in 2011 for tail light defects. A 2015 Z8 tail light recall would keep the pattern intact.

    Anyone on board to begin the process? Our polite letters to the powers that be at BMW remain unanswered.

  35. #110
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    I have to agree with KenZ8 about a possible next step. But does anyone have any information on how to proceed? Addresses? Information required? I also have to say that BMW NA, while not able to influence BMW Germany in our situation, has been very helpful and responsive, referring me to a dealer who will replace my tail light at a "reasonable" (!!!) cost, and working to get me toward the top of the list for replacement when the new units become available. I haven't moved on it because of course since I started working the issue the lights have worked perfectly! Maybe because fall is here and the intense heat is not a factor?

  36. #111
    I'm wondering whether we might want to talk a bit with Bill Stuart before unleashing the DOT and applying another stigma to the car. I know Bill has been in communication with the powers that be on this issue. Hopefully, BMW(NA) will understand that they are much better served to deal with the problem now building good will, rather than have the DOT asking questions and forcing solutions out of their control. And that is assuming that there are no punitive penalties when dealing with safety issues.

  37. #112
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    Dieter Weidenbrück, Chairman Technical Matters for BMW Clubs, are you monitoring these messages? You, having received the responses from us about our tail light issues, should know how many here in the US are having this problem (or, more accurately, how many of us that have access to this forum are having the problem). I should think the number of us with the problem would be an important factor in BMW's handling of the issue. Can you help us here? (If we know how many Z8 owners are on this site, and how many of them have the tail light issue, since we know the number of Z8s sold in the US, we should be able to extrapolate and get an estimate of the size of the problem.)

  38. #113
    I can tell you that all his 'notifications' of follow up posts are bouncing back, as he has not updated his email address in his User Control Panel, so he may be unaware of these follow ups.
    Andrew Macpherson

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  39. #114
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macfly View Post
    I can tell you that all his 'notifications' of follow up posts are bouncing back, as he has not updated his email address in his User Control Panel, so he may be unaware of these follow ups.
    So it appears that no one is speaking for us except perhaps Bill Stuart who was kind to update me last week with "nothing further to report". Time for a poll (anonymous?) to determine how many are willing to fill out a DOT incident report?

  40. #115
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Dogsbreath's Avatar
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    I finally got thru today. Absolutely no luck here. BMW Canada says call USA. BMW USA says call Canada. The Canadians say they "have never even heard of a PUMA # nor any recall issue with the z8 tail-lights"

  41. #116
    I did send Bill Stuart an email about a week ago informing him that the next step for us may be a DOT complaint and that we might all benefit from trying to work together. No response to date. He may be busy. My guess is that his job description probably includes some other matters outside of overseeing our problems.

  42. #117
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    He may be busy.
    Busy with hiding? But it is good that you ask attention for this matter with BMWNA.
    Ton
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  43. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-acht View Post
    Busy with hiding? But it is good that you ask attention for this matter with BMWNA.
    My guess is that his job description does not include making things difficult, especially with the US gov't, for BMW NA.

  44. #119
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    After sending several copmlain mails to Bmw Group Classic today I got the approval mail from my local dealer. I only got 3 or 4 replies to my tens of mails. They never gave a binding reply. Only apologies. Most of my mails were never responded. I think I will never know why they declined in the first hand but it looks my mails worked.
    Hattat

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  45. #120
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    This was one of the mail I got. What do you understand for the US cars?
     
    Hattat

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  46. #121
    Beyond the Valley of Z8 Madness Z-acht's Avatar
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    goodwill is only for the US, not for the EU Variation
    ???????? I thought it was the other way round.....or did I miss something?
    Ton
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  47. #122
    in Coral Gables, Florida DirkZ8's Avatar
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    .... and if the translation program worked correctly ....
    Is history repeating itself ?
       
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  48. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by zed8 View Post
    This was one of the mail I got. What do you understand for the US cars?
    As far as I understand from what he wrote goodwill campaign and warranty campaign are different things. Warranty for ECE and goodwill for US.
    Hattat

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  49. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkZ8 View Post
    Is history repeating itself ?
    I asked the distributor in Istanbul how they communicate after I received this mail. They said they are writing in english and sometimes getting responses in english or in english but from a translation program. It is very weird if they don't speak english and use a translation program.
    Hattat

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    Eisenmann catback
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    CDV removed
    Quaife LSD
    3.64 gearing

  50. #125
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Z8DinanS2's Avatar
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    I just spoke to Randy with NHTSA. He says I am the only Z8 owner to file a 5 minute complaint to NHTSA!

    PLEASE SEND HIM AN EMAIL AND TELL HIM IF YOU HAD A NEON LIGHT FAILURE ON YOUR Z8! It will take you less than 5 minutes to send Randy an email at [email protected]


    [email protected]


    Fellow Z8 owners out there.....If you have a light problem you must report it to NHTSA otherwise BMW knows nothing will ever be done about it.

    So if you like the idea of paying thousands of dollars PER LAMP each time one fails....AND THEY WILL FAIL due to their defective design....then don't contact NHTSA.

    If you like lowering the value of your Z8 then do not complain to NHTSA! Yes, your Z8 is worth less as people who would be buyers hear of these tail light issues and how it could cost thousands to repair and this is a repair that will have to be done sooner or later...and over again!

    All a potential buyer needs to do is read from this Z8 forum and they will be less inclined to buy the car or at least pay a lower price. This is exactly what happened with the 355 Ferrari market as owners complained about defects but never took action. Instead, they spend thousands to fix the design defect issues and potential buyers hearing of these issues shied away from buying 355s or offered lower prices.

    BMW owners in Europe were apparently much more vocal to the powers that be over there so BMW took action.

    If you were BMW USA and realized NHTSA won't do anything would you spend your money replacing Z8 taillights?

    If you want action take action!

    If you want to preserve or even boost the value of your Z8 take action!

    If you don't want to spend $4k or more replacing a defectively designed tail light.....and then later another $4k replacing the other one when it eventually fails, contact NHTSA!

    If you don't want someone rear ending you and potentially killing you, your passenger or the people who rear end you should your light fail when you don't know it, then contact NHTSA!

    Everyone with this issue take 5 minutes to make your complaint to NHTSA. This is where you file your Complaint. Emailing Randy makes this problem from and center with an investigator! They take your information over the phone. It is quick and easy. All you need is your VIN number. Call 1-888-327-4236. I chose not to make a selection as they will have an operator answer the phone if you have a rotary, i.e., don't select an option. The more complaints we file with NHTSA....which will appear on SaferCar.gov, the more likely BMW will take us seriously.

  51. #126
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    I also have the taillight problem. My dealership contacted BMW North America, and they told them that recall only applies for European cars.... Now what am I going to do?

  52. #127
    Administrator thegunguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Playersmarkus View Post
    I also have the taillight problem. My dealership contacted BMW North America, and they told them that recall only applies for European cars.... Now what am I going to do?
    There is no supply issue with the NA model lights, and there is no "recall." There was a constraint issue with with the amber/red lights for the EU/ROW cars, which were not available for over a year.

    If you you're in the US/Canada, you can order a light today. Due to the limited number of cars versus standard models, they're not stocked regularly. So, they're a special order, but they do come. I ordered one recently from my local BMW parts counter, and it took about 10 days to receive. Cost is running just over $2k.

    No comment on the price, reliability, design, etc. of the lights...merely responding to 'Playersmarkus' that lights can be sourced for NA cars.
    thegunguy

  53. #128
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    Thanks, gg, but I was under the assumption that this is a free goodwill recall ( see first post of this thread).

  54. #129
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    Yeah, sorry for the confusion. I'm not sure it's technically a recall. BMW has an active goodwill program for the EU/ROW cars. We initially thought/hoped it would extend to NA, but that didn't happen.

    My own theory, which isn't worth much, is that goodwill EU program was to appease the many owners in Germany who haven't been able to drive their cars for years due to the stockout on the amber/red lights. Since the all-red NA lights have never had a supply issue, BMW didn't feel the need to do anything for the US/Canadian cars.
    thegunguy

  55. #130
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    Hi,

    My experience was as follows - BMW NA paid 70% of the full installed price, and I paid 30%. My cost was roughly 3K I believe for both lights, which was still crazy, but better than nothing. I had to push for it.

  56. #131
    Sport Button On - DSC Off Dogsbreath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by screenap View Post
    Hi,

    My experience was as follows - BMW NA paid 70% of the full installed price, and I paid 30%. My cost was roughly 3K I believe for both lights, which was still crazy, but better than nothing. I had to push for it.
    Interestingly, whenever my battery is absolutely fully charged(just come off charger or after 20 minutes running) my signal light works perfectly. If the battery isnt 100% i lose the lowest bar of the light and it flashes double time. Anyone with any thoughts as to why? Could this point to poor connection ? I recall the soldering for these lights is specialized

  57. #132
    My right turn signal is starting to intermittently do the double time flash. I find that once the unit is hot from driving, the double time starts. When I start cold, it behaves normally. So, it may not be the battery charge, but the fact that it's cold.
    From a previous post, I was told that this is the beginning of the end for that unit. The brake light and night running lamps are working normally, and the turn signal is lit. So, not sure if it's the control unit or the neon unit.
    Greg AH61930 - 2003 - Silver/Black

  58. #133
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    Mine started like that as well. My advice is change it out as soon as it starts happening if you can get some assistance from BMW. If not, then I guess you can wait.

  59. #134
    Team Z8 tomfakes's Avatar
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    My car just started double-timing on the left side as soon as I started up after winter. Peter Pan is going to look at it next week before the Monterey week

  60. #135
    Team Z8 tomfakes's Avatar
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    So Matt is telling me I have the top bar of the left rear out - cost for replacement is $2900 (I think this is the fully installed price), but there are no lights in the US right now!

  61. #136
    How does Matt suggest you proceed? Seems like BMW has put you and others in a position of having to drive your car with defective safety equipment or not be able to drive at all. What about the 50 year parts guarantee?

    Bill

  62. #137
    Team Z8 tomfakes's Avatar
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    We've ordered the part and it will be replaced after Monterey. Since the lower part of the light still works, it's not a big deal to drive as it is. Worst case - I only turn right for a few days!

  63. #138
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    So as a suggestion, see if BMW NA will cover part of it. As I mentioned, for me, they covered 30% of the total cost. Installed cost per light was about 4500 CAD (a bit more than 3K USD, but we always pay more here in Canada). Worth a shot!

  64. #139
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    Tail Light Replacement

    A quick update that may help to understand the current situation:

    For owners with ECE tail lights (yellow/red):
    Well about 100 tail lights have been replaced in the meantime at no cost for the owners. This included the units and the labor cost. Cars from a variety of countries have been treated, mostly European of course. The campaign is ongoing, proof of failure is expected by BMW.

    For owners with US tail lights (red/red):
    If you live in the US or Canada:
    There is no goodwill campaign in these countries. You are expected to complain to and negotiate with BMW NA yourself.
    At no point in time did we receive information about large quantities of failures in the US, and there has never been a joint complaint to BMW NA as far as I know. Until mid July 18 left and 7 right tail lights have been shipped to owners with red/red units.
    So if there is a significant number of failures the owners need to collect that information and jointly approach BMW NA to negotiate a deal. My expectation is that BMW will handle these cases on an individual basis to avoid legal precedence.

    If you have an imported US car in Europe:
    You can purchase new tail lights from BMW at your cost. BMW is not responsible for any exchange due to road regulations after import.

    Hope this helps.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  65. #140
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    Thanks for the summary - your explanation of the NA situation is accurate - I had to negotiate the discount as it is not written anywhere.

  66. #141
    Z8 Guru 2112's Avatar
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    Since the Factory is seemingly in charge of manufacturing the lights now, is it likely that supply for ECE lights will be continued for the original 50 year promise?

    Or, should we buy a pair now, while they are available and keep them on hand for the time when they become unavailable again?
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  67. #142
    Team Z8 dwz8's Avatar
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    BMW has produced an amount that is expected to be sufficient for the 50 years.
    Best regards, Dieter

    ....

  68. #143
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    Thank you Dieter, I guess I can put that on the back burner then.
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  69. #144
    Team Z8 tomfakes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by screenap View Post
    Thanks for the summary - your explanation of the NA situation is accurate - I had to negotiate the discount as it is not written anywhere.
    Who did you negotiate with? Matt at Peter Pan suggested I talk to Bill Stuart, who's helped in the past, but Matt is not allowed to start this process himself.

  70. #145
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    My dealer dealt with BMW Canada directly and negotiated on my behalf... I do not see why the dealer could not negotiate this?

  71. #146
    Team Z8 tomfakes's Avatar
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    BMW NA have denied paying for any of this cost.

    Although from the tone of the email, I don't think Bill wrote the text that I received from his email address

    I was wrong about the cost of these lights - the $2920 is just the unit cost. Installation is extra!

  72. #147
    Z8 Guru 2112's Avatar
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    $2920 is for just one fixture?
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

  73. #148
    Team Z8 tomfakes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2112 View Post
    $2920 is for just one fixture?
    Yup - plus labor!

  74. #149
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    Wow... sorry to hear :-( As much as I like my Z8, BMW has often been a challenging organization to deal with. I was hoping my experience was a bit of a corporate change!

  75. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomfakes View Post
    Yup - plus labor!
    That has to be full tilt retail. I understand if you back up into a light post and have to pay that.

    Has anyone contacted the club about buying thru an associated dealer? (Hint, I have as I want to retain ECE style taillights, I love those).
    2000 Red over black
    heavily modified for performance. Although, not to the level of GM's car

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