Z8 relief vehicle

[Norcal]

With my Z8 bumping up against 40k mi, and winter coming fast, and my son having moved out (freeing up 2 parking spaces), I'm thinking it's time to add to my garage as an everyday car that will keep some miles off the Z8.

My garage now:
? 2001 Z8
? 2006 BMW 750Li (Yuk, wifes car)
? 2007 Mercedes GL450

I'd like a good everyday, short-commute car that I can take to the track every few months.
The following are approximate vehicle costs vs prices. I'm thinking the 4 liter M3 might be a good all-around compliment to what I have, just not sure if I would like it on the track (or if it would hold up to the abuse). Most of these cars will lose little value if I only own them for a year or two (I think). Not looking to spend big money. The Z4 M is a much better deal than the cayman S, but perhaps both are too small/limited use?

Marty, comments?

2006 BMW Z4m roadster: $30,000.....10,000 mi
2007 BMW Z4m coupe: $30,000.....20,000 mi
2008 BMW M3 coupe: $45,000.... 25,000 mi
2007 Porsche Carerra S: $55,000....30,000mi
2009 Porsche Cayman S: $45,000....20,000mi
2009 Corvette Z06: $45,000...20,000
2012 Porsche Boxster Spyder: $65,000...0 mi
2007 Porsche GT3: $80,000...25,000 mi
20011/12 Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca: $55-65,000?

OTHER???
? 2007/8 CLK Black series....automatic only : (
? AM V8 (if I can fit)
? Audi RS4 (nose-heavy)
? Subi STI (easy and cheap to get 400hp)

Please contribute alternate ideas!

[ZMates]

OK, totally different category, but anyone else lusting after the BAC mono like I am?

www.bac-mono.com

[EDEZ8]

Given your criteria I would recommend the 2007 Porsche 997S. Very comfortable and rewarding car with a different feel than the Z8. The upcoming release of the 991 model may cause prices dropping further as current 997 owners trade for the newer model. Happy Shopping!

[Norcal]

Thanks, and yes the 997 S I know would be enjoyable, however, I could be too spoiled by my 997GT3/RS I sold in the spring of '10. And for a little more I could get back into a GT3. Really not sure I want to spend that much on a "Run-around". I figure 30-40k ish would be no big commitment.

[hayvenhurstkid]

The Z06 is a lot of bang for the buck. They are really quick, would make a fun track car, fairly cheap on the used car market, reliable, and you will comfortably fit in it. I have had two of them, neither of which I kept very long, but had fun with them while I had them. Only problem is I was tired of hearing my wife say Corvettes are for middle aged men who wear toupees and need Viagra. Thankfully only one of those three apply to me. That would be middle aged.

[CastIron]

I know it is not much of a sports car but it is really fun to drive on and off the track.
I suggest you get a MINI Cooper S and then change the pulley add an intercooler and
decent suspension. It is a blast to drive and track.
Do not get anything before 2005 since they upgraded the clutch to a 25% bigger plate.

As an added benefit the MINI has an aura of good will, I have been pulled over a couple of times
once doing over 95, 90 the officer said and gotten away with a warning and a smile. Pull that in a
carrera or our Z8.

It is just plain fun

[hayvenhurstkid]

While driving to Monterey in 2008 I was on the 101 just North of Paso Robles going over 100MPH when I saw a CHP cruiser in my rear view mirror closing in fast with the lights on. I though I was done for but he pulled up next to me, motioned for me to slow down and took off. Oh, did I mention I have 11-99 plate frames?

[thegunguy]

Knowing you, I think you're going to be hard pressed to find a DD that YOU would actually enjoy at the track. I think you already had it in the GT3.

I noticed the Boss in the list. That thing may be the best bang for the buck right now. I'm not sure I'd want the LS version for the street though. I bet you'd get some free service if you let Dana borrow it for the weekend.

I think you know I'd vote heavily for the 4cyl E30 M3. It's not a blazing fast car at the track, but it's one of those cars that is just too fun to appreciated by mere specs. I've driven them on both the street and track, and they're just a joy. I'm not sure I'd want to put many miles on one, but to split time with the Z8 and GL on your short commute, I think you'd get a kick out of it.

All the 911s are fun, but like you said, having the GT3, I think you're spoiled to anything else.

The Z06 may be an even better value than the Boss, but I've just never warmed to them. They're amazing at the track and pretty good around town, but the interior is just a downer. It's cheap, cheap, cheap.

[hayvenhurstkid]

You are right about the interior and that is why I sold both of mine. Even my 09 with the 3LZ package which gives you a leather dashboard helped some but not enough to make me keep it.

[redz8]

How about a Nissan GTR?

[Z8doc]

Ian, given they all will depreciate alot each year, and given the fact that you will get tired of any of them after a year, and given they all are similarly priced, and given that you will track all of them a little, I would start at the top of that list and and buy / trade every year till finished with the list (and maybe update the list depending on the resale prices of cars not on the list). That will last you several years of driving some great machines!!

[Machinegun]

I have a '07 Z4 M-coupe . I like it also because you dont see many on the road. It is faster than a E46 M3. Drive it EVERY day to work. This is a great car for going to work and track. If you get into traffic every day it is another story. The car gets about 23 MPG also. If you buy a BMW give me a VIN I can check history for you. http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=560036 . Here is a picture of my car.

[Norcal]

Z8Doc: Kinda my Idea too, buy used cars, drive each for a year or so and move on. The hit will be pretty small, and I'd get to "Play the field", as I'm married to the Z8!

MachineGun: Thanks, will do. The Z4M is a real possibility.


PS: I'm still thinking about something vintage too??? (not big $$) Just fun. Rifle is close to that with the e30M3 idea, but I'm thinking older than that.

Vette: Yup, would be fun at the track, but that may be it.... don't know if I could bare being seen in it around town! And don't get me started on the interior!

[thegunguy]

CS Batmobile!

[macfly]

Yes, now you're talking!!

[redz8]

Always loved the look of the CS. But, at 150K, I'll probably get me another Z8 and in a different color this time.

http://www.bmwclassicparts.com/galle...ale/batmobile/

Also, this is very tempting.

[thegunguy]

Also, this is very tempting.

Now that's some serious depreciation.

[redz8]

That particular fisker frontend is very difficult to get used too.

[Z8Mania]

My vote goes to the CaymanS. Good looking. A little bit under the radar. Great balance. A good stablemate to the Z8.

[Norcal]

Cayman S: My son had one a couple years ago. Had some mods. Really very enjoyable, cool car (wish he hadn't sold it)... and that was while I was driving the GT3.

[Norcal]

I test drove a recent (used) M3 yesterday, stick... Nice car, if still a bit too refined/isolating. Extremely capable for sure. Probably a great daily driver. I was disappointed in the engine though. I could hardly hear it, and it was, too linear, if that's possible? Very even in it's power delivery from 4000 to red line. I was expecting some edge, some swell as the engine is such a high rev'r... but no. Just smooth and civilized the whole way up. The Z8 starts in the low to mid revs with beautiful torque, then transitions to smooth higher revs. The M3s not at all as fun as the the equally powerful motor in my old GT3 that had plenty of low-end torque, then sling-shots you from 4000 to 8500 into hyper space with thw wail of a banshee! That being said, the M3 is deceptively fast, and amazingly ballanced and sure footed. I wouldn't be surprised if it would beat the z8 through a canyon blast. It's just not as viceral or fun? Upon getting home, I looked up the specs. It is about 300 lbs more weight and 100 ft lbs less torque than the Z8, despite being the same HP... explains the less than hyperspace experience I guess. At this point, it makes the old V10 look better. At least there should be an exhilerating rush to the 500hp with big revs and more torque. I'll have to check the weight of the old M5.

What do you guys think?

Edit: I just checked the specs on the V10 M5. Yet a few hundred pounds more... about 4,000 pounds, and about the same torque as the Z8 (not promising), but it does have a much better power to weight ratio (Z8 at about 8.5 lbs/HP, M5 about 8 lbs/HP, M3 9.25/HP) if you look at torque, the M3 looks even worse... I'll need to drive a V10 M5 stick. Do we think the extra 200 lbs is a fair trade off for the extra 100hp? Could be even more Civilized/isolating than the m3?

[macfly]

The GT3 simply can't be beat for a full on road/track funster, unless you do a Scud of some kind. You can find my full report on the M6 ragtop in the PDF section. The motor is incredible, but it is too luggy and weak below 5, then it becomes your own private Lear jet, but I think it's too Jekyll & Hyde for the US speed limits. it really is luxury liner for all day speeds over 100mph. For five days in the Alps it was magic, but it isn't a car I wanted to bring home.

I also found the M3 to be very lacking in 'spirit', it is clinically cabable but ultimately it's a bit bland. For me the GT3 was just what the doctor ordered, and only bettered in driving fun at the track by the Lotus, but that's a lousy road car.

[thegunguy]

I drove an M5 V10 with the 6spd at the track. It's awful. Just too wide for such a high power delivery engine. It's always wrong. With the 7sp, it's definitely never edgy. It's as linear as a turbine. No visceral excitement from dynamicsm, just VERY fast. Unbelievably fast really.

I really can't think of anything better suited to you on this mission than your old GT3.

[macfly]

Yeah, me too, except maybe a new GT2, that does sound like a heck of a beast, this one sounds pretty promising...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2dr-C...ht_20060wt_892

[Norcal]

GT2RS!

Yeah, some day I'll get another GT3. But not looking for a big financial commitment... just a run-about. Drove the Z8 to work today.... amazing still!

[Juergen Wunderlich]

I do not know if it is available in the US but I heard a rumour that the Fiat Abarth 500 will be available soon (LA Auto Show November). I have so much fun driving this car because it is not expensive, not heavy and with the esseesse kit with 160 hp it is a hood... Yes, it is a small car but I am sure you will fit in because the interior is not as small as you might expect it to be. I learnd the last years that most of my driving fun is not to carry a lot of weight. Only my 2 cents...

[Norcal]

Fun idea Juergen! I'll see if they are selling that here. Doesn't the FWD bother you? Torque steer? What's the weight?

[macfly]

Love the plate J?rgen!! That really does look like fun, and the Lotus certainly taught me the joys of lightness. I have a secret urge for one of these, as a road car it's beyond hell, but for the track it could be mad fun! http://www.uscaterham.com/showroom/R500.html

[Norcal]

That looks great Andrew, I've always wanted one too, but would be concerned for the lack of any kind of side protection from impact.

[Z8Mania]

Thats a fun car! I like it.

The E90 M3 is a great car but you just described it. It reminds me of a kind of slightly more racy E39 M5 but in coupe form. You can slide the car around very nicely but its not a focused car like the GT3. A nice commuting "super car".

[Juergen Wunderlich]

Hi Norcal, The FWD does not bother me at all because the electronic power steering has two different modes. For cruising in the city it is very soft and after using the sport button (like in the Z8, but with enormous impact on the steering and the intake pressure of the turbo charged engine) it is very tough and the car has some kind of an electronic torque transfer control system! Regarding the weight, I made an exact measurement on an accurate scale and my car without glass sunroof and with absolutely no options has an exact weight of 920 kg. What did impress me the most was, that for a car with really no options it is no problem to connect e.g. an iPhone without any extra wire or something else to the USB-port. Steering wheel-mounted controls and voice commands are working even with an optional mobile navigation system from TomTom. I never owned a Fiat before but I think this will not be the last one? I was also thinking about a MINI Cooper S but in comparison the Fiat has 920 kg on 160 hp and the MINI has 1590 kg on 182 hp. Doing the math was very simple here. Everything like an USB-port is an expensive option at MINI and based on the sticker price in Germany the MINI is about EURO 23.500,- (including VAT) and the Fiat is EURO 18.500,- (including VAT). The sticker price at Fiat is much more negotiable by the way?

[Lisa]

we rented a convertible mini to run around the back roads of Wales and had an absolute blast - fun car

[Norcal]

That's about 12 lbs/hp... might be fun. If they bring it, I'll check it out. Since it's a turbo, it should be easy to get even more power perhaps. If 225hp were possible, that would put it at about 9 lbs/HP.... light and fast!

[macfly]

BTW, I emailed the guys at Caterham, and they have a new CA dealer, and are planning some track days events, so I think a little 'Z8's meet the Caterham' event might be in order!

[skicoach]

Cayman S!, fun reliable, balanced, and very sure footed.

[Norcal]

Andrew, yes! Please keep us posted if you can swing something. What track? (Willow, I bet)

Cayman S.... or R, yup, can't argue. As I said, really love those. I'm still jonesing for a Boxster Spyder (so much for practicality!)

[Klaney]

Older 911...can't go to far wrong. I have a 92 964... Red targa. Targa maybe not the best track car but really Gets a lot of attention when ever I drive it. High on the fun factor and likely
not going to depreciate...maybe values on the up swing

[Norcal]

Can't fit old 911... 996 barely.. 997 perfect!

[Norcal]

???????? Send Marty and Carlos to check it out?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-3...ht_2298wt_1167

or!!!!

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C201610

better daily driver? and close to home!

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/...s/1291774.html

[redz8]

The black one is simply stunning.

[macfly]

Very pretty, but is it you?

[Norcal]

It's my colors (the black one at Canepa) That's not Bob's car is it? And yes, it's a bit sedate, and certainly no track car, but maybe it would be amusing for a while. Could work for a DD. It really needs to be a Bat, set up for the track.

[macfly]

I don't think Bob had one of those, but the white Batmobile in the UK looks sweet, that's more your kind of thing!! :-)

[thegunguy]

Batmobile or you're a wuss!

[Norcal]

The real attraction is that it would be pre 1975.. no smog! any motor!

[thegunguy]

The real attraction is sponsor stickers.

[macfly]

It's coming!!

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011...ELES/111029857

[hayvenhurstkid]

Ahhhhh, no!

[zed8]

This is my everyday car and I love it. I believe these will be in US next year.

[Z8Mania]

Cool- congratulations.

[Charles]

I rented a Fiat 500 at Alamo. I think my expectations were higher than the delivery. Cute car, but a little twitchy in the steering for me. One I think we would like over here need over here is the Spanish Seat. It is basically an Audi A4 that costs less and even omits the LED eyebrows. I rented a good, solid, fun-to-drive diesel Seat with a six speed in Spain.

[Z8Mania]

Id like to see how that would do too.

[Musta10000]

[macfly]

That's so fun, both the ad & the car!!

[Z8Mania]

LOVE the video. The car- it just doesn't do it for me. Not a FWD fan. Not even an AWD fan but sometimes its necessary I guess.

[Charles]

LOVE the video. The car- it just doesn't do it for me. Not a FWD fan. Not even an AWD fan but sometimes its necessary I guess.

Maybe you could paste your car in at the end with a Z8 voice over for your eBay ad if you ever find that straus 03 with the low miles.

Or would you have a suggestion for a better model?

[Z8Mania]

I would keep my current Z8 and add the stratus. Moneypenny and I won't soon be parted.

[ZAchterbahn]

11/11/11, the day I picked up my 2012 C63 AMG Edition 1. You should check it out, Ian. Can't wait to get through the 1,500 km break in period, which I am adhering to. I have a feeling that this little car will dance.

Engine upgrades from the SLS include lightweight forged pistons, lightweight connecting rods, revised crankshaft management, AMG compound braking system, 30 extra horses for a total of 481 and 174 mph top speed, which I hope to verify soon on the track.

On a different note, does anyone have experience with matt black paint finish? I am looking for a quick detail spray, without wax or oils.


Christian

[macfly]

Crisp ride!! Enjoy and let us know how it works. :-)

[ZAchterbahn]

Thank you Andrew. I will report my experiences.

[Z8doc]

Congrats on the ride, that is a sweet car ! Keep us posted as to how you like it.

re: Matte paint-- I do not think it requires anything different but I will ask my friend who owns a paint and body / restoration shop and see .

[ZAchterbahn]

Thank you Jeff. My dealer told me not to wax the car and gave me a special car wash concentrate. Let me know what your friend recommends. Hope to see you and Cindy in Dallas if you ever find time to make it South.

[Norcal]

Nice Christian! How do you think it compares to the old CLK Black series?

[macfly]

Ian, back on the thought of cheap and cheerful Z8 relief vehicle that could be a track toy, this little beasty from the combined efforts of Toyota & Subaru promises to become a serious contender to the Spec Miata, and might be fun to play with.

It'll need serious tweaking to get it anywhere near an EVO, or something similar, but I expect it'll be a bit of a sports car revolution in its own right. I'd most likely buy the Subaru version as the Toyota will be sold as a Scion in the US, but still could be a giggle!!

[Norcal]

Yup, been watching this car for a couple years. The power is only about 200 hp (I think) but the weight is only 2500 (I think). Wait for the hot version, and it could be real, cheap, fun. It looks like it still has a front weight bias, but a very nice and low CG because of the flat 4. Stay tuned.

[ZAchterbahn]

Nice Christian! How do you think it compares to the old CLK Black series?

Ian, I drove the CLK Black Series at an AMG driving academy a few years back and it stands out in my memory as extremely nimble and precise. Lots of fun negotiating and sliding around the pylons! My dealer also let me take one around the block on Dallas' poor roads, which was a rather chilling experience in terms of dealing with low clearance and hard suspension.

400 more miles to go on the C63 coupe before I will start pushing it. In comfort mode the car is firm but compliant enough to keep my spine healthy on our roadways here. I had it in sport mode 1 and took it up to 4,500 rpm - the break in limit. Automatic up and down shifts as well as gear holding are really impressive, without any nervous gear searching.

The car feels extremely tight and compact even across cobblestone roads. So I cannot wait to start driving it more spirited and to take it on the track. By the way, driving the 26 miles from home to office in 50/50 city and highway traffic I get 20.5 mpg, averaging 50 mph.

Steering and braking feel competent but I will form my opinion on that later.

So far I am quite impressed.

Cheers.

[Z8Mania]

Congratulations! Sweet ride!

Some random thoughts:
* Matte paint- ask your dealer/ follow what the owners manual says. I have never heard you can treat it like regular paint. Ive heard it is extremely difficult to live with and yes, you shouldn't wax it, as it doesn't have a clear coat, and our modern waxes are made to wax the clear coat not the paint itself. Also if you get any kind of debris on it, like tree sap, remove it immediately. But the thing is, you can't use the usual bug and tar removers so Im not sure what to do. In short, all Ive heard you can use on these matte paint jobs is soap and water.

* Break in. Its already broken in. They run the motor like crazy on the bench before they give it to you and I think they also run the car itself around the track a few times, they used to do this with the M cars anyway- Im not sure if they do that anymore. The break in is for the brakes, the tires, and the most important component: you. I think if you go gentle with the car over a few hundred miles you have all the break in you'll ever need for the mechanical bits. The only other question is simply driver comfort level.

You got one heck of a car so enjoy it!

[Norcal]

I'll ask the guys at Mothers? what they know about matte care.

[macfly]

Ian, look, they got ours ready!!

[thegunguy]

Wow, if they price it right, that could be a real winner to challenge the Spec Miata crowd.

[Norcal]

Awesome! A bit more than a spec miata!!!!

[redz8]

Love the sound track. Very mission impossible-ish.

[CraZ8's Johnny Q]

I vote for the 997 Carrera S. It's such a great driving car. Maybe not a track car, but definitely a car you could take to the track.

[Norcal]

I have considered a 997 Carrera S. Not the edge of the GT3, but a great car for sure... perhaps much better as a DD

[CraZ8's Johnny Q]

I had a friend with a 997 S. It drove great. I thought it felt really easy to drive it fast. I would love one as a DD, but it is not big enough for me.

Our garages are similar at the moment. We (wife and I) also have a BMW sedan and a GL 450.