Used Z8 Values.........

[Klint]

Searching through the Auto Trader website I come across some decent deals on a couple Z8s. Maybe the used values on Z8s have become more affordable.

It's quite unbelieveable how much the used prices have fallen, I would of thought the car would of been a wise investment, but time will tell if it is or not. I think it'll take 10 years for the values to recover and maybe become profitable. Not that many Z8 owners would like to part with their exotica.

Here are some examples of the relative prices of used Z8s in Britain today: (Oct '03)

2001 BMW Z8, 2001, Y reg.
11000 miles, Rare Topaz Blue, Cream leather, Full Spec Including Air Con, Heated seats, Sat Nav and 6 CD, Hard Top, Tracker, FBMWSH, Warranty Remaining , Immaculate condition, Car cover included. ?51,000 . ono.

2000 W Reg BMW Z8 5.0 400BHP
Manual 6 speed, Silver Metallic, Cabriolet, 19,000 miles . Air-Conditioning, Full Service History, Hard Top, Red Leather, Satellite Navigation, Wind Deflect . Private Plate "GB Z8" Included in the price, BMW Extended Warranty till June 2004, A Rare Opportunity to Own This Modern Classic. Finance Available ?54,994.

Cheers.

[macfly]

I think that the LHD thing makes it a much more affordable car in the UK used car market.

There are around 130 Z8s in the UK, and I think they will just get to be better and better deals, but beware of the cars that were in Damon Hill's P1 rental fleet, as they will have had a hard life.

Klint, make sure that you get one when you can!

[Bill Allsopp]

Based on what I saw a year or so ago ( prices in the mid- ?40's) I would say we are already seeing some improvement.

[Klint]

Thanks for the tips fellas. Some good ideas!

I wouldn't mind owning a Z8 but i'm still too young for one..

Cheers.

[macfly]

as of today's exchange rate, GBP>USD ?44,000 @ 1.6958 = $74,615.20.

A Euro in really good condition over here with sell for around $80K, so it seems the prices are almost the same. I'll be most interested to see where the prices start to go in Germany and France, as they well have more influence on the overall market.

Of the 5,701 cars built just over 2,400 were shipped to BMW NA. I would guestimate there are already around 150 Euros over here, so if you take the whole NA market, and thow in the Euros, and 130 cars in the UK, that's only half the total production run. Where are all the others?

The value drop of the Z8 in the UK seems very extreme. from around ?80K to ?44K is about 45%. Here in the US a $130K car is still fetching $100K, about 25% loss. (In the same 2 year time frame the Dollar has lost around 20% of it's value against the Euro!)

With over 50% of the cars in Europe it will be interesting to watch that market to see what they command over there now production has finished.

[Bill Allsopp]

A 2002 model went through the Arcturial auction ( France ) for ?59,104 a few months ago so they seem to be holding prices better than in the UK but at about US levels.

Trouble with the UK is there's almost nowhere you can use a Z8, the roads are clogged with traffic almost all the time and speed cameras are breeding like rabbits!

[macfly]

7 were sold in Turkey.
3 in Australia (RHD market)
80 sold in the Netherlands, but about 20 have come in from Germany, so there are around 100 there.
130 sold in the UK.

[Z8doc]

Here are some details that I found today on the bankrate.com website. They have evaluated several cars and the BMW Z8 was listed as at the top of the list for the
Most Value retained after 4 years. It lists the Z8 at retaining 54% of it's original value at 4 years. That is GREAT NEWS!

It actually was tied with the Mercedes Benz C-class and a close 2nd was the Mini Cooper S at 53% [another BMW cousin] not too bad either, which was a 3-way tie with the Porsche 911 and the Boxter at 53%.

These values are based (I think) on cars coming "off lease" and therefore milage would mostly be in the range of 36 to 48K [assuming a 12K / yr lease] and obviously, lesser milage Z8's will fair even better!

So good luck to those that are either looking to sell their 2000 Z8
or those that are wanting to buy a used one !

Z8doc

[macfly]

It seems that a year after the end of production prices early Z8's which are just out of warranty can be had for the high 70's. It looks like the late models are selling for the mid-high 90's with Alpinas still above the 100K mark.

I saw a stunning 03 Z8 with 5,000 miles sold for just 92K at Heritage Classics this week, I thought that was a pretty low price for a year old car, but apparantly not. (They are the dealer I got my original Euro from in '01.)

[martin hoyle]

Just got back from my house in France, leaving my beloved Z8 "resting" in its "VERY" secure garage until we are reunited in October,

Whilst over there I visited one of the top garages in Cannes that had a Silver 2001 for sale at Euros 110,000 that equates to $134,000 !!!!!

Considering that I only paid $89,000 for mine BRAND NEW (in Dubai) two years ago, that's quite pleasing!!!

Also values in Dubai seem to be rising as almost all Z8's that come up for sale are being exported back to Europe (surprise, suprise). A 2001 was sold about six months ago for $59,000 yet a 2000 last month went for $79,000.

So what is the value of my 2002 Hamann'ized car?...who knows, just for fun I put it on the Dupontregistry web site at $89,000.....the price I paid for it http://www.dupontregistry.com under exotic cars.

That brings me to my main question, what is the difference between a US spec and European Spec Z8? I can only think its the speedo (MPH vs KPH)

All the best from Dubai

Marty Hoyle

[Z8doc]

Just because I was curious, I looked up the current value for my Z8 via Kelly Blue Book website http://www.kbb.com and this is what I found.

With 27,000 miles a 2003 BMW Z8 in excellent condition would currently retail for $110,660. That's only 17.4% less than full sticker 28 months later! Considering I paid $5,000 off sticker that averages only $765/month for the 28 months I have had it!! Too bad my payment was never that low!

Z8doc
Tulsa

[macfly]

I scan EBay for them every week, and they seem to be holding pretty steady from what I can tell, but I have no idea if they're really selling for the figures that the 'Buy It Now' prices suggest.

[Z8doc]

that I made several months ago had the Z8 with an off lease value of only 54% at 36 months. At this rate, we will be substantially greater than that !

z8doc
Jeff

[macfly]

and are industry wide standards that are most apt to apply to fleet vehicles and family transports rather than exotics. That same industry scale is also predicting that a Carrera GT will only be worth $175K at the end of a 4 year lease, which I have a hard time believing too.

I really thought that our cars would sink a little bit more than they have, it's seems odd that they're holding so steady when the last two new ones in the land at Santa Monica BMW have been sitting for well over 12 months and still can't find a buyer even at MSRP.

[Z8doc]

have been (no offense to any one here) one of the guys who purchased a Z8 in early 2000 or 2001 for the prices the Z8 was going for then ? I was looking through an old Dupont Registry that I had laying around from a couple years ago (2001) and came across an ad for a 'new' 2001 Z8 for a mear $225,000 !!!

I do not know how many sold for these high prices over sticker but maybe the fact that some of these early ones sold for such high amounts is keeping the price higher than what you would normally expect in the used market. I mean one of those italian 'F' babes that goes for more that $200K would still be around $120K - $150K or more, depending on how many miles you had. Just a thought.

Z8doc
Jeff

[macfly]

that BMW of Beverly Hills sold the first one in the country for $300,000 to Pete Sampras. I have no idea if it's fact or fiction, but it's one of those urban legends that keeps cropping up.

If it's true I hope he keeps it for life, he'll certainly need to to get his money's worth of enjoyment out of it. If it's really true it could mean that car has enough of a history to command a premium. I've seen a few football and baseball player's cars come up on EBay over the years, all asking a premium for the name of the first owner, but I have no idea if they actually got it. Since the only sports I follow are the wheeled ones I had no idea who the players were anyway, so it was lost on me!

[Z8doc]

is that Sly Stallone bought one of the first ones too, for $250K but I have no way to know if that is true either. Hope they all are true as I think it may influence the price/value over the long haul.

When in Chicago for a meeting a year ago, I walked into a Bentley dealer on Rush St. and they also had many fine automobiles ranging from M series cars to Ferrari, Lambos, etc. No Z8s. I talked to the manager at length then about a used Ferrari 355 Berlinetta he had and he asked me what I was driving. He told me he would give me what I paid for the car (then with 15K miles) as he felt he had a few buyers that wanted one in Silver/Red like mine, even if I did not want to buy the Ferrari. He felt confident that he could sell the Z8 easily for more than sticker even if it was used, in the Chicago market.

Hope the prices stay high for all our sakes.

z8doc
Jeff

[macfly]

as many of the leased cars will have been thru the system as CPO cars. After that steady supply is used up I think we'll see less of them on the market at any one time, and that too may help the values strengthen.

Many buyers (as opposed to leasers) bought this as a keeper/investment car, and that too will ultimately help assure it's desirability and value I think. Against may rare Ferrari's, Lambo's etc it will always be considered a great 'practical classic' that you can use and enjoy because of it's tried and tested M5 drive train, and that too will hold it in very good stead in the long term.

[macfly]

I discovered this weekend that Z8's are holding their ground in Europe, and good ones are actually starting to go up in value now. If the Euro gets any stronger look for enterprising folks from over there coming over here to benefit from the dollar's demise.

[macfly]

Here are some new prices on Z8's - July 10 2005 from Grease Monkey.

"Just checked Autotrader.com and they had 25 Z8/Alpinas listed. Highest price was $160k, lowest $84K, avg. $108K. By the way, Santa Monica BMW only has one new Z8 left, a 2002 with delivery miles, black/black, asking $159,945!"

[Z8Cookie]

Feature from The Sunday Times in the UK from July re values.

Sunday Times Z8 Feature

Colin.

[macfly]

July 03, 2005

BMW Z8 By Jason Dawe of The Sunday Times

Being a secret agent?s car is a top job. You get to park outside the world?s finest hotels, enjoy the fitment of a large number of non-standard factory options (such as rocket launchers and ejector seats) and have the occasional dust-up with a Ferrari on a winding mountain pass.

But there is a downside. You may be blown up, barrel-rolled, or cut in half by a bandsaw. James Bond has always preferred British metal when choosing his company car ? notably Astons and Lotuses ? but when it was time for 007 to save the world one more time in The World Is Not Enough he committed an act of automotive treason for which some have never forgiven him. Bond went to Munich and got his hands on a BMW.

As a sales puff, BMW must have been pretty happy with the film. By the time its Z8 went on sale in February 2000 both small boys and their dads were drooling over it. Even the hefty launch price of ?86,650 didn?t seem a problem.

Only a handful of cars were destined for the UK and the waiting list for potential buyers stretched beyond two years. But some six years after the car?s film-star performance its long-term status as BMW?s ultimate sports convertible is still in the balance. So few were produced that none of the trade guides quotes second-hand values and buyers and sellers have to rely on instinct when setting a price. You can expect to be writing a cheque for ?60,000-?70,000 if you want one.

Technically it?s hard to pick holes in the Z8. Under the bonnet is the same lusty 400bhp V8 that powered the previous generation M5 and under the light aluminium skin lurks a light aluminium frame, giving the generously proportioned convertible a modest kerb weight of 1,451kg. A light body and generous power results in electrifying performance. The Z8 sprints from 0-62mph in 4.7sec and has an artificially restrained top speed of 155mph.

Aesthetically, BMW would love us to trace the Z8?s bloodline back to the incredibly rare and valuable BMW 507 of the 1950s but in truth I still see a bit of Jaguar E-type in the Z8?s back end and more than a whiff of Ford Thunderbird in the wide-mouthed grille.

The interior also plays the retro card. Dominating the dashboard are the centrally mounted driver dials and a beautifully crafted three-spoke steering wheel that captures the spirit of yesteryear?s motoring.

But unlike many of its forebears the BMW Z8 has a generous cabin. Both front seats are electrically adjustable and boot space is remarkably good. The standard-fit electric folding soft top requires the minimum of effort and when the weather turns less than perfect the standard hard top is a boon.

As a practical year-round sports convertible the BMW Z8 comes close to perfection but buyers may struggle to extract the car?s ultimate performance on British roads because the steering wheel is on the wrong side. With production so low and with BMW?s eye firmly on the US market, a right-hand-drive Z8 was never on the cards. And with plenty of alternative right-hand-drive offerings available from the likes of Porsche, Mercedes-Benz and Ferrari it?s easy to understand why some buyers will be put off by the BMW?s compromised wheel position.

Like most ultra-exclusive limited-production sports cars, the BMW Z8 was always going to lead a privileged life. The chances are that second-hand examples will have covered minimal mileage and been serviced to within an inch of their lives, but don?t get complacent.

Make sure that the car you are looking at has a proper service history. When you?re handing over a bank draft for a second-hand car that costs about four times as much as the average new car you have every right to be fussy.

Leather: Two-tone leather was a popular option on many cars
Climate control: Standard on all Z8s
Engine: 400bhp V8 is a well-proven unit lifted from the BMW M5
Electrics: Multiplex wiring loom reduces the car's weight but demands more sophisticated electrics so check everything works or the bills get large very quickly
Rust: Forget it, the Z8 has an aluminium space frame cloaked in an aluminium body.
Dashboard: Centrally mounted dials take a while to get used to
Push-button starter: Creates a sense of occasion
Rear screen: It may not be glass but the high-tech material used is incredibly scratch resistant and by folding very small liberates extra boot space
Retro styling: Wonderful three-spoke steering wheel and body-coloured dashboard hark back to a previous motoring age
Electronics: You'd be unlucky to lose control of the Z8 thanks to its sophisticated driver aids, which include dynamic brake control, dynamic stability control and traction control.

Vital statistics
Model BMW Z8 ?Engine 4941cc V8 DOHCxxxxx ?Power 400bhp ?Transmission Six-speed manual ?Fuel N/A ?Acceleration 0-62mph: 4.7sec ?Top Speed 155mph
The one to buy
Trade guides do not quote second-hand values but a 2002 51-reg model with 17,000 miles is for sale via Times Online at ?59,995
Or for similar money
1996 N-reg Lamborghini Diablo Roadster
1999 S-reg Ferrari 355 Spider
2001 X-reg Aston Martin DB7 Vantage
2001 51-reg Porsche 911 Turbo coup?
2002 02-reg Mercedes SL 55 AMG

In the UK I'd be very careful of a high mileage car, because both Guy Salmon and Damon Hill's P1 (a time share exotic car ownership club) both had Z8's which no doubt had a very, very hard lives!

[Z8doc]

came from the UK ! Looks like we are in good shape at the moment !

[macfly]

Scanning EBay seems to indicate that the Z8 has found a pretty good level in the market, with many '02/'03 cars asking over $110,000 and a few phone calls to the dealers who use EBay to show their wares indicates that there is nothing available under $85K regardless of age or miles.
There were also 32 cars listed on Autotrader.com, the higest at $120K and lowest at $85K (that was car AH60039, one of the very first customer cars delivered) so I think it is safe to say we bought well at this point.

[Z8doc]

My local dealer has purchased a 2002 Z8, Silver/Black at an auction and now has it for sale locally. It has only 275 miles on it!!! Asking price, $109,000. VIN is WBAEJ13472AH61399. I looked at it today, excellent / immaculate condition.

Apparently, original owner was an investment banker in Nebraska and was going through a divorce, decided to let the Bank repo the car instead of letting the soon to be Ex-wife have it!!

If anyone knows of anyone interested, they can call Bob Howard' Crown BMW in Tulsa at 663-4444 / used cars for details. Looks like a beauty for a reasonable price.

[ggg1]

Crevier BMW in Santa Ana , CA has a new Alpina for sale at $175,000. Seems a bit steep to me but they did sell 2 new alpinas two weeks earlier on the same day, I guess people are starting to realize how rare these cars are.

[daveg1]

I paid $90k for mine this past summer. It is an '01 with 4k miles topaz/crema. I changed the top to black right away. It needed a few details, but nothing is cheap. So I would say about 3k more to make it perfect.

[nitmr26]

Two Z8 Ebay auctions ended today without meeting the reserve. A 2002 black/crema with 17k miles ended at $78K, reserve not met. A 2002 silver/black with 2.7K miles ended at $98K, reserve not met.

There is a 2001 silver/black with 3K miles that ends tomorrow. No takers yet at the starting bid of $89K.

Just trying to pass along observations as I watch the market.

nitmr26

[macfly]

and if you check out Autotrader you'll often see all the same cars, but with the prices that the dealers actually want. My observation is that not that many Z8's seem to sell through EBay, but it attracts the really serious buyers who usually contact the dealers directly.

My recent purchase of a 50,000 mile '01 is a good case in point, if you were following the sale on line it appeared it ended at 67K, 'reserve not met', but three days before the sale ended I'd already bought the car directly from the dealer at 72K.

I scan the prices every week, and had also rung many dealers in my bid to find a 'bargain' and there was nothing I could get for less than about 87K, and they were all the '00's which were prone to the expensive VANOS failures, so I really wanted an '01 or later, and there was nothing for less than the mid '90's all autumn.

Next year will be very telling, will they start to slip, or will they hold steady and start to climb? My guess is the later, but time will tell!

[KenZ8]

I paid $90k for mine this past summer. It is an '01 with 4k miles topaz/crema. I changed the top to black right away. It needed a few details, but nothing is cheap. So I would say about 3k more to make it perfect.

Any problems switching out the soft top? My dealer broke the zipper replacing the clear plastic, and BMW wants to change the entire softtop, but I'm a bit nervous that it will never function well again. And then there's the issue of the titanium retractable frame and the fact that it can't get scratched....

[daveg1]

well, good question. this sort of undertaking 'terrifies' me because the odds of everything being just right when you pick it up, the next day and a month later are virtually nihil. that has been my experience anyway.
so, sure enough it seemed fine when I picked it up but there were two equal small tears in the new top. one on each side at the rounded corner near the door handle...if that makes sense. when i pointed it out, they agreed to do it again which the tech said would go faster as he had never done one before mine and it took quite awhile. so they did it again and it came out perfect and now, three months later, it still is perfect...probably until i go out to the car tomorrow morning anyway.

[macfly]

I've noticed an odd trend, the Z8 is most commonly being traded in at Bentley dealerships. Does that mean that the demographic of those who bought/leased the Z8 when new is a more mature, large luxury car kind of guy?

Strangely enough not one Z8 has turned up at a Ferrari, Lamborghini or Porsche dealership, they either return to the BMW dealer chain, be a Bentley shop, or appear at some random ?Specialty Import? shops that you?d hope never to buy anything from!

VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) have really done an extraordinarily clever job of taking over the high ground of the luxury car market by rebodying the Phaeton as the Continental GT, and sticking a Bentley badge on it. The Bentley has become the car to have here in LA, they are getting more common than Porsches and big MB?s judging by my 'in traffic' sightings.

[nitmr26]

Foreign Cars Italia (a Ferrari/Porsche dealership) in Greensboro, NC sold a Black/Black '01 Z8 about a month ago. It was listed for about $87K with around 15K miles.

I have noticed Bently of Long Island has been advertising three Z8's for a while. They all look very nice in the pictures.

cheers,
nitmr26

[redz8]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-Z...00939654QQrdZ1

If this car is as good as described, then it will set a price reference at 86K for a low milage 01.

[nitmr26]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-Z...00939654QQrdZ1

If this car is as good as described, then it will set a price reference at 86K for a low milage 01.

That's the second time that car has been listed on ebay. I can't recall what the original "buy it now price" or high bid were.

Happy New Year,
Nitmr26

[macfly]

and my guess is he is selling it for that price based on what dealers might be offering him for it, which is probably more like $70-75k. He is also selling it at a terrible time of year, so I'd say anyone with around $78K will have themselves a real steal just now.

In the big picture I don't think that a few bargains here and there will erode the long term value of our cars, but the inversion of the interest rate curve on the 2 & 5 year bonds, and the lack of a 'Santa Rally' pointing to a bleak year ahead for the economy, it is my prediction that over the next 24-36 months there will more bargains to be had before we see a longer term price stabilization.

That said many of the dealers on AutoTrader are helping keep prices stable with several cars in the $100K+ region, while just a very few are in the high 70's & 80's. What may well create a baseline is the exchange rate and price differential between here and the EU. At current exchange rates if prices get to around $75K there will be good business to be done returning these cars to the EU where demand is very strong.

[nitmr26]

I hope your prediction of additional bargains in the coming year is correct. I would love to take advantage of the winter weather to help find a bargain, but it looks like I will have to wait until the summer before I can make a move.

Bentley of Long Island currently has four Z8's they frequently list on both Ebay and Autotrader. Their asking prices range from $89.5K for a 2001 with ~17K miles to $116K for a 2002 with ~ 6.5K miles.

nitmr26

[nitmr26]

Has anybody in the Northeast been by Bentley of Long Island and looked at any of the Z8's they have in their showroom? They are currently listing four. Despite the recent news concerning the frame issue, I'm interested in the 2001's.

Has anybody seen those cars? Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
nitmr26

[mollyshark]

Nit: I bought one of theirs in April, sight unseen. It was a pretty easy transaction. They even took my 330cic in trade also unseen. There were a few dings on the hard top that weren't reported, but the rest of the car was spotless and totally as represented. There is someone here from that area, though, because he looked at mine while at the dealer and confirmed it was lovely. Need more coffee to remember names.

[NYZ8]

Kelly Blue Book now lists their suggested retail price of an excellent condition 2001 Z8 as $89,000 and 2002 Z8 as $98,000. Having been in the Z8 market recently, I think this is a reasonable price, specially if they are BMW CPO cars.

As part of CPO for Z8, dealership routinely replaced all 4 tires and ordered any missing original equipments (Thanks to Macfly's "Here is what came with the car," I knew exactly what to ask for and got them ). 2-year extention on original warranty also gives you some peace of mind specially with the frame issue like now.

[KenZ8]

I live near Bently LI and go there regularly to drool over their stock of preowned exotics. My son and I were there last week, and checked out six Z8's- three already sold and getting prepped for delivery (all sales well over $100K). The owners are Z8 enthusiasts, and have attended the Z8DE. They are probably the largest preowned Z8 dealer in the country from what I have seen, and they deal in only very pretty, low mileage cars. I have made several large purchases from them, and they have always fulfilled every promise without the usual used car salesman tactics. Contact me for a personal introduction if any of their cars interest you, and I would be delighted to run over there to take any photos that you would like to see.

[nitmr26]

Ken,

Thank you for the reply and the offer to supply pictures. I noticed BLI recently stopped listing the Black '02 and Silver '03. I have requested additional information on the two '01's they have listed. I have yet to hear back from them. If I start to get serious about either of the cars, I may ask for your assistance to take a closer unbiased look at one of their cars.

Thanks to all that have replied with their positive experiences with BLI.

Sincerely,
Nitmr26

[redz8]

It's on ebay and for sale by owner.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-Z...07066551QQrdZ1

A bit on the high side, given it is a private party sale.

[nitmr26]

It's on ebay and for sale by owner.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-Z...07066551QQrdZ1

A bit on the high side, given it is a private party sale.

I noticed that ad. I agree; it's a nice car.

[macfly]

this is the way i think we'll see prices go.

With as many as between 1/4 ? 1/3 of the cars having the frame damage ones which are such low mileage, and with no signs of the dreaded issue will become really sought after. If your car is mint with low miles you may well have a very, very good long term investment.

[Khalil Ghalayini]

Hey Andrew,
How do you quantify VERY VERY?

[redz8]

125K for a 2001

link

[Khalil Ghalayini]

[redz8]

They are probably not interested in selling the car on ebay. It's just an add for that one person that will walk in ...

[nitmr26]

Bentley of Long Island sold four Z8's within the past month. Three had been listed on Autotrader and Ebay for a bit, but they also had a 1,700 mile Red/Red '01 (it may have been an '02) that was sold in about two days. As KenZ8 has mentioned that BLI only deals with nice, quality examples, I am led to believe that the market for nice examples has yet to be affected.

waldo