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Thread: Car Insurance

  1. #1

    Car Insurance

    Just paid my 6 month premium on the Z8 - $238.08 (obviously not agreed value) . For all three cars the total was $632.91 ($1265.82 annually) with State Farm. What is everybody else paying?
    Skip Hammerman

    2002 BMW Z8 - Meisterschaft GT, PP installed, CDV delete
    2013 BMW X3
    2015 Porsche 911 Targa 4S

  2. #2
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    I have American Modern Insurance. Stated Value. I set a high value to both replace the car, travel across the country to find one and ship it to my home. I pay $1414 a year.

    Jay in Southeast Florida
    Z8 #436
    License Plate: MYBMW Z8
    Eisenmann Mufflers
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  3. #3
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    What deductables?

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    American Modern Insurance $1414

    Quote Originally Posted by Norcal View Post
    What deductables?
    Stated value $145,000
    No deductible
    $500K Bodily Injury
    PIP $10K
    Roadside Assistance
    Trip Interruption
    Spare Parts

    Part of American Southern Home Insurance
    Agent is Delrisk Inc.
    (877) 545-2522

    Jay in Southeast Florida
    Z8 #436
    License Plate: MYBMW Z8
    Eisenmann Mufflers
    Dinan Performance Software

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Norcal View Post
    What deductables?
    $1000 deductible. Most of us owning a car like this should be able to pay $1000 in case there is a claim, which hopefully there is not. Having a $1000 deductible will make a big difference against $500 and obviously even bigger against $250. The difference in the annual rate will pay off very quickly.
    Skip Hammerman

    2002 BMW Z8 - Meisterschaft GT, PP installed, CDV delete
    2013 BMW X3
    2015 Porsche 911 Targa 4S

  6. #6
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, I'm with SF too. 1000 deductable. About 800/yr.... I need to look into this?

  7. #7
    I'm also SF, and after having my SL destroyed in the accident I reported the other month I can tell you they were fantastic to deal with, and valued my car at a better price than I'd put on it. They also paid to replace it within a week or so of the inspection, so based on that really exemplary performance I really can give State Farm two thumbs up.

    However Progressive, the insurer of the texting girl who drove into me, are still messing about trying to avoid paying my deductible, car rental and medical, so I would say avoid Progressive at all costs.
    Andrew Macpherson

    Expert Z8 Inspections, with full support for both Z8 sale and purchases.

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    The $1414 premium went to $1009 with $1000 deductible

    This is for $145,000 stated value with American Modern Insurance.

    Current mileage: 33,000.

    Jay in Southeast Florida
    Z8 #436
    License Plate: MYBMW Z8
    Eisenmann Mufflers
    Dinan Performance Software

  9. #9
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Are we all quoting annual premiums? American Modern just quoted me $2014/yr with clean record, garage with alarm, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenZ8 View Post
    Are we all quoting annual premiums? American Modern just quoted me $2014/yr with clean record, garage with alarm, etc.
    What is the stated value of that policy?

    Jay in Southeast Florida
    Z8 #436
    License Plate: MYBMW Z8
    Eisenmann Mufflers
    Dinan Performance Software

  11. #11
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    $130K 38K miles Silver/red $1000 ded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenZ8 View Post
    $130K 38K miles Silver/red $1000 ded.
    Doesn't seem to make sense if I have $145K for half of that quotation. Did you try the agent that I use? I spoke with them this morning to change my deductible from $0 to $1,000 to reduce the premium by over $400 a year. I'd like to understand why you would have gotten a quote at that level. Am I in for a surprise come renewal time?

    33,000 miles, garaged, clean record, blah blah blah

    Agent is Delrisk Inc.
    (877) 545-2522
    Aaron Waldie or Emily Dillon

    Jay in Southeast Florida
    Z8 #436
    License Plate: MYBMW Z8
    Eisenmann Mufflers
    Dinan Performance Software

  13. #13
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    I've contacted Emily for clarification. The only differences I can think of could be the rating based on the state where the car "resides" (we're in Texas) or the annual mileage allowed (I'm on a 6K miles/year policy).

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenZ8 View Post
    I've contacted Emily for clarification. The only differences I can think of could be the rating based on the state where the car "resides" (we're in Texas) or the annual mileage allowed (I'm on a 6K miles/year policy).
    That might be the reason. I am on the 3,000 miles a year plan.

    Jay in Southeast Florida
    Z8 #436
    License Plate: MYBMW Z8
    Eisenmann Mufflers
    Dinan Performance Software

  15. #15
    mjunco1054
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    We use Farmers for our two Z8s and they charge $1100/yr./vehicle with a value of $130K and 3000mi/year and a $1000 deductible. The cars have 15,000 and 18,000 miles. We live in Houston.
    Manuel Junco
    Manuel Junco 2001 Z8 60373 (Silver/Black)2001 Z8 60430 (Silver/Red)1976 20022017 Porsche Carrera GTS1998 Porsche Carrera S

  16. #16
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Please check with your agent regarding the stated value of the Farmers policy. I had all the cars and house with Farmers, but pulled the Z8 when my agent explained that the way Farmers writes the policy, the agreed value is just the maximum paid in the event of a total loss, not a guaranteed amount. He said that in their policy, all you are accomplishing is limiting the insurance company's responsibility, not guaranteeing your payment of the agreed value. Payment will be based on the usual factors that companies use, up to the established maximum. When the "agreed value" was removed from my policy, the premium went up which in my mind confirmed that the protection for the company was removed and they assumed more risk.
    Farmers and my agent have been terrific with several properties and autos in a long history with them, and I hated to separate the Z8. Please let me know if your agent agrees with this explanation.

  17. #17
    mjunco1054
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    Ken,
    Excellent point. I will check this week.
    Thanks, Manuel
    Manuel Junco 2001 Z8 60373 (Silver/Black)2001 Z8 60430 (Silver/Red)1976 20022017 Porsche Carrera GTS1998 Porsche Carrera S

  18. #18
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    I just heard back from Emily. Firstly, the service provided by her and her office is to be commended. She also writes for Chartis and Barrett-Jackson which I have had in the past, and there are instant answers to any question. However, the response regarding coverage by American Modern was disappointing. Matching the coverages for car year, make, model, current mileage, and expected annual driving mileage, her quote came to about $1700 for what Jay has for $1000. It comes down to either the resident state rates or perhaps there will be a big increase at renewal indicating that premium rates have increased. I hate paying for something that I really never want to use.

  19. #19
    Z8Mania
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    Ken, isn't it really that you are paying for peace of mind? To my way of thinking, insurance is risk mitigation. So, GFB the unhappy bird takes a giant poop on your life, you can go out to the market and get another one.

    I'm with ACE and I pay 1500 a year with a 1k deductible. No mileage limit. Agreed value of 175k this year. Its true agreed value and they will cover the sales tax. My objective is to have the ability to get another black/red car.

    One thing we might want to consider is raising the deductible. As these cars become more collectible, I dont think youd want to have a fender bender in the car fax. I think the insurance is really there for the catastrophic occurrence.

  20. #20
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Yes, Jerry, I agree completely. Peace of mind is important and with a car of this value, a necessity. However, that doesn't mean that I have to like paying the premiums. If we self insure and have a loss, we could be even in only 150 years!

  21. #21
    Z8Mania
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    LOL- my gut feeling is the same as yours and I have to convince myself insurance is worth it. You know what they say- insurers are happy to take your money but not happy to pay out. And banks only lend when you dont need it

  22. #22
    Team Z8 Charles's Avatar
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    I obviously need to adjust come renewal in October. I have Grundy, $87K agreed value, $1273/yr. $0 ded, 500/500 liability, no mileage limit, although I gave them 4000/yr on my original application. I went with them because they were willing to insure it upon my purchase, prior to delivery from CA. Peace of mind for me was protection on the delivery truck. Mine is a 23k mile car (originally 20K), so after almost 2 years I am under on my mileage. I am thinking $130K and $1000 ded.

    Manuel, I have Farmers on all my other cars, house and umbrella liability, and my agent was honest enough to tell me that they could not do agreed value.
    Charles Guerin
    AH61406 - Titanium Silver/ /Black

  23. #23
    Z8Mania
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    Several years ago I had Firemans and they did agreed value back then, but after the financial crisis, they became even more corporate and very difficult to deal with on other items so I moved on. Isn't Grundy a collector car insurance company? The problem I have with those policies is they don't allow you to actually use your car- you can only drive it on Sunday afternoons, to and from car shows, etc.... Blah! I use my cars.

  24. #24
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    The disclosure I signed is a bit broader, but the policy lists two uses. Per the language I CAPITALIZED they do not mean the same thing and are two exclusive uses. If either or both words were removed it might be non-exclusive:

    1.Is maintained SOLELY for use in exhibition, parades, club activities, or other functions of public interest.

    2. Is not used for REGULAR driving to work, school, errands, shopping, general transportation, secondary or back-up transportation, business or commercial purposes, except for limited pleasure use.

    What language do ACE and American Modern Insurance policies use?
    Charles Guerin
    AH61406 - Titanium Silver/ /Black

  25. #25
    Hagerty will insure my Z8 for about $1900 in Massachusetts, agreed value of $150,000. I am currently paying that amount with Travelers and also a stated value of $150, but I'm not as comfortable with them. They agreed to a stated value because I have 4 other cars with them, but it is not their forte. Likewise, Hagerty is easier to deal with if you have more than one car with them. Next year I will switch the Z8 to Hagerty.

  26. #26
    Z8Mania
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    There is no restriction on where or how I use my car in so far as we are talking about on road use. I really drive my car to real places like work, lunch etc. I think my policy allows driving experience type driving on track but I'm not 100% on that one.

  27. #27
    Team Z8 Charles's Avatar
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    Finally talked with an Agent for ACE, Chubb and Fireman's fund. She said they all require that you maintain all your insurance with them to get Agreed Value on one vehicle. So if you are considering them you might as well know that, unless someone here can refer us to an agent that can tell us otherwise.

    I spent a few torturous months renegotiating and moving my insurance a year ago from one Farmer's agent to another and got a lot better coverage for less money, so that prospect is not as appealing to me. I am going to go back to Farmers to see if they have changed their policy to a real Agreed Value, try American Modern and try to verify with Grundy that although it says "Collector Car" that their coverage really means what it says, and allows more flexibility than just parades, exhibitions and club events.
    Charles Guerin
    AH61406 - Titanium Silver/ /Black

  28. #28
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Charles,
    I just insured my Z8 with American Modern through Consumers County Mutual Ins. Co of Dallas company: 800-543-2644 agent: Classic Automobile Ins. Agency 800-397-0765
    Great customer service so far, agreed value 125K, 1400/yr with 6000 miles/yr and they rollover if not used.
    "Occasional pleasure use" definition includes the usual plus "leisure/pleasure drives" as long as it is not the principal transportation or used to commute to work or school.

  29. #29
    Z8Mania
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    I'm not sure about Grundy, but Haggerty and the other one collector type insurance company I checked with an agent for recently both said you could not take the car to the office, or for a run to the drug store, or to buy groceries or even really for a week day pleasure drive. It was week ends only for maintenance mileage and then to and from shows.

    Yes its true, to get truly agreed value my experience is its only available if you run your entire homeowners through them. Its kind of strange because to my mind insurance is risk mitigation and then its all about numbers. If I am willing to pay a premium over the standard insurance, why not give me the agreed value? The company has the information and can propose the price they are comfortable with.

    Ken right, but when I checked on that definition, at least with those companies and my agent, we concluded it did NOT include going out for bagles on a sunday morning.

    I actually drive my cars to the office, etc. I dont drive them much on the weekends. Thats the time to spend with my children and I stay away from most car guy weekend things, I have found them to be more trouble than they are worth.

  30. #30
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8Mania View Post
    Ken right, but when I checked on that definition, at least with those companies and my agent, we concluded it did NOT include going out for bagles on a sunday morning.
    I can think of nothing more leisurely or pleasurable than going out for bagels on a Sunday morning in the Z8. No court would ever argue that. I don't believe any insurance company would want to question that use. Unless of course you own the bagel place. Just don't eat them in the car! Sesame seeds are difficult to get out of the seat creases.

  31. #31
    Z8Mania
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    There you go again, being reasonable.... lol. I've had both very good and very bad insurance experiences and my take is to be prepared for when they don't want to cover you- so I try to minimize the wiggle room factor for them- otherwise why am I paying for it?

  32. #32
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Life with a class A personality has taught me to prepare to be disappointed even following research and deep investigation before a purchase or contract signing (including the purchase of insurance), and hope for some cheap thrills when things work out perfectly and not be surprised if they don't. Is that a problem or just the way life is?

  33. #33
    Z8Mania
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    I hear you but I chafe when the product is so limited in its use. It would be like saying: Here is a beautiful Z8 BMW, but it is really a collector item so you cannot drive it to work nor should you drive it to the grocery store. Only use it on Sunday afternoons when it is sunny out, otherwise it might melt.... Just doesn't work for me. One of the several reasons why I have avoided truly vintage cars so far.

  34. #34
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    So are you just listing it as another car and hoping that if there is a need for an accident related settlement later it will be fair and market based?

  35. #35
    Z8Mania
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    Im not sure I understand. I have mine on agreed value to 150k. If- GFB- there is a problem- Ill be able to be covered up to 150k for a replacement. I'm with ACE. Its with my homeowners. My issue is with the "collector" policies- so far I've found them to be very limited in what they will allow you to do. ACE doesn't care if I drive to Home Depot to buy a 2x4 or to the opera or to bop around the back roads. This is as it should be. It is a car after all.

  36. #36
    Team Z8 KenZ8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z8Mania View Post
    Im not sure I understand. I have mine on agreed value to 150k. If- GFB- there is a problem- Ill be able to be covered up to 150k for a replacement. I'm with ACE. Its with my homeowners. My issue is with the "collector" policies- so far I've found them to be very limited in what they will allow you to do. ACE doesn't care if I drive to Home Depot to buy a 2x4 or to the opera or to bop around the back roads. This is as it should be. It is a car after all.
    I was confused as I have not been able to find a "non-collector" auto policy that has a true "agreed value" and not a "stated value". As I understand it, "agreed value" will pay the agreed amount in the case of a total loss, while "stated value" caps the payment at that stated amount while not guaranteeing the payment of the whole amount. I dropped the car from Farmers where I had all the cars and homes because they only offer stated value which in effect only acts to reduce their risk. The others that I checked with had either this same policy or only "regular" car insurance which would rely on negotiation over book value at the actual time of loss.
    I'll check out ACE as I agree with you, the car should be able to be driven and the value is the value regardless of where I decide to drive it.

  37. #37
    Z8Mania
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    Yes they will pay the agreed amount- but if they can find the car that meets your specs and it comes in a few dollars lower then they dont give you a check for the extra- or so I believe.

    Truth of the matter is you will pay either way.

    If you get AV then you pay a higher premium and you have more peace of mind.

    If you dont then you pay a lower premium and you have more worry factor / you'll have to make up the difference if need be.

  38. #38
    mjunco1054
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    Car Insurance

    Ken,
    Finally checked with Farmers and they insure for the stated value ($130K in my case). I had to get a separate policy for each of the Z8s as that was the only way they would do it. My other 3 cars are on a regular insurance policy with Farmers.
    Thanks for prompting me to double check.
    Manuel
    Manuel Junco 2001 Z8 60373 (Silver/Black)2001 Z8 60430 (Silver/Red)1976 20022017 Porsche Carrera GTS1998 Porsche Carrera S

  39. #39

    Wink Ok, here's another solution

    We get 150 BMWZ8.US members to throw in $2K into the kitty. In the following year, if someone totals their car, they get half the kitty ($150K). We then have another $150K to cover one more totaled car while we all vote whether to continue to fund the Z8 Insurance Coop. If we vote "no", we each get $1k back. If we vote "yes", we put another $1K in.

    If there is no totalled car in the year (the most likely scenario), we keep the money in the kitty for the next year. Until there is a totaled car, we make no further contributions ... zero ... nada, but maintain the catastrophic coverage.

    We just need a lawyer in the group to put this together and another Z8 owner who has contacts in the 50 states' Insurance Commissions.

  40. #40
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    That is a crazy great idea!

  41. #41
    Z8Mania
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    It sure is!

  42. #42
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    That may cover vehicle damage, but wat about bodily injury on both sides, their car etc... Massive liability?

  43. #43
    That was food for thought, primarily. Now that Ian and the other smart fellows are being to think about it, with the juices flowing, so to speak, how about the following:

    What if we put together a list of what we want in coverage (e.g. agreed up value, $1000 deductible, etc.) and a list of interested parties (hopefully 150+ :-) and go directly to the major insurance companies and ask them to put together competitive bids for our business. At, for example, $1000 every year from each of us (with 150 participants) that would equal $150K in the insurance company pockets with a likely exposure of much less than that for them. Good for us and good for them hopefully without the myriad middle men, marketing costs, complexity and cost of selling to each one of us.

    An additional feature would be that if there was any dissatisfaction with the company, we would have a forum (ala Andrew's work) to share information and hold the company potentially more accountable in a fair manner. There is nothing like power in numbers.

    If there is any serious interest we might be able to get some additional advice from one of our members who I seem to recall was intimately involved with insurance as a vocation.

  44. #44
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    We also get first dibs on the wrecked car! (I have a project in mind). Wait... Don't we already get all this for $1000 a year already (almost)?

  45. #45
    Good point, Ian.
    Ok, let's try this again.
    Let's say $750/yr X 150 Z8 drivers X 10 years, the insurance company will collect $1,125,000. I wonder what their claim history would be. Knowing our group and the $1000 deductible, they might just keep that whole bundle ...

  46. #46
    Z8 Novice Jeffrey's Avatar
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    All we need is a self insured vehicle to subsidize the owner in the event of a total loss claim. The members would keep their individual policies. This would be in addition to an insurance company claim. Something like AFLAC but just between us members.

  47. #47
    Z8Mania
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    So what you are saying is you want to become a registered insurance company? Somehow this sounds like opening oneself up to a world of hurt and misery.

  48. #48
    Z8 Novice Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Do not think insurance. It is an agreement between private parties not open to the general public.

  49. #49
    Z8Mania
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    I think your idea is interesting. My comment was more towards the idea of actually becoming an insurer. Yours is more like a private risk mitigation club.

  50. #50
    Z8 Novice Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Smile

    Right. I am thinking that we agree on an amount that is between our perceived value and the insurance industry value. Then we figure how much reserve we need on hand and a lot of other nitty details. It is just an idea. Of course, when California finally slides into the Pacific, we are screwed!

  51. #51
    Z8 Ate My Homework! Norcal's Avatar
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    That sounds like a better plan. We create a fund of around 50,000 to cover any delta between what ins. pays out, and actual replacement value? Saves everyone the hassle of specialty policies and use limitations etc. I know it's easier for me to keep all my policies with one provider and not have to manage something special. One caviate, what do we do to re-fund the pot if someone has used it up (god forbid)? Anyone know know if a personal umbrella policy would cover that delta? We all likely have one already. Then again, couldn't any of us just cover the delta out of pocket? If I were to total my car, I would mostly be sad to have lost my companion... The extra 20k to cover the spread would not be my biggest worry. If we could all contribute yearly to some vehicular group umbrella, it would likely only be a small fee?